**** Wolverine (X-Force) ****

Sandwichboy

I'm sorry, but people arguing that he's still pretty good are really just trying to find reasons to make themselves feel better about having poured all the resources into getting him maxed. He's not competitive anymore. Yes, he was overpowered before, because he brought SO MUCH to the table beyond flat damage. Board shakeup, true healing, AP gen AND drain, all on top of high damage and cheap abilities. Now he has...board shakeup, and the most wildly erratic nuke in the game. Sure, SS can potentially 1 shot nearly any character...under the right conditions. And then what? Sit on Black for the next 10 matches? Hope that X-Force shakes up the board enough to get some of those colours back? All the had to do was dump the AP drain OR AP gen from SS, and/or increase the cost of X-Force to 12 and he would have still been viable, but nowhere near as dominant. Instead I really have to assume that we're just not supposed to use him anymore in favour of these shiny new characters they keep throwing at us. As much as I like the idea behind raising the health of most characters (opening up the usefulness of many like HT and Mohawk) and the mostly interesting changes to IW, Elektra and She Hulk, it's a pretty crass slap in the face of every veteran player to turn a character that (literally) costs so much into something we have to make excuses for to bring along, after we've all payed for it.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Blammo can't get rid of enemy special tiles. It's otherwise a pretty solid ability that used to be overlooked because X Force is unconditionally better in every way.

err, it does do that? Protect, attack, strike and CD's at 4+ covers. It's a chance of removing them but that's the same as any boardshake. At 5 covers the hole he makes is big enough that you'll clear them if they're close to the middle.

As for the slowness of R&G, I think that it's a bit exaggerated. His green is only 1 more match than X-Force's but for better damage now. He also tends to generate you a good bunch of AP as well.

Getting to 11 blue isnt really hard and once you have over 1000+ dmg in strike tiles the match will end fast enough.
Anyway, don't use him. He's really bad and slow

Oh, I just recently downgraded it to level 3 and didn't notice level 4 was what lets it destroy CDs. It still won't destroy Invisibility, which seems to be seeing some more usage now. 1 more match is not a trivial difference because it's usually the 3+ matches that take a while to get because you start running out of that color, though it probably matters less now that games tend to drag out longer. Blue is pretty good and fairly inline with the risk of using CDs though it's probably safer than expected (probably should be placed randomly on a blue given its strength) when used offensively though not broken enough to worry about it yet.

Phaserhawk

sinnerjfl wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Blammo can't get rid of enemy special tiles. It's otherwise a pretty solid ability that used to be overlooked because X Force is unconditionally better in every way.

err, it does do that? Protect, attack, strike and CD's at 4+ covers. It's a chance of removing them but that's the same as any boardshake. At 5 covers the hole he makes is big enough that you'll clear them if they're close to the middle.

As for the slowness of R&G, I think that it's a bit exaggerated. His green is only 1 more match than X-Force's but for better damage now. He also tends to generate you a good bunch of AP as well.

Getting to 11 blue isnt really hard and once you have over 1000+ dmg in strike tiles the match will end fast enough.
Anyway, don't use him. He's really bad and slow

the problem is taking R&G from 5/3/5 is that blue is too good now with long matches and all the extra damage, and yellow is even more valuable at 5 since longer matches will mean more damage and you need the stronger heal. If no health increases were incoming, then I would maybe argue 3/5/5 R&G as a decent replacement, but think 5/3/5 is a lock now.

ayatorahxephon

X force is way overnerfed than 4thor. He is so bad that I only find him as a filler in my cascade team.

ayatorahxephon

And I really hope the devs at least increase the base damage to 2000 to make him viable again

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

the problem is taking R&G from 5/3/5 is that blue is too good now with long matches and all the extra damage, and yellow is even more valuable at 5 since longer matches will mean more damage and you need the stronger heal. If no health increases were incoming, then I would maybe argue 3/5/5 R&G as a decent replacement, but think 5/3/5 is a lock now.

The funny thing I found about R&G's heal is that if you work backwards you'll find that level 3 is always enough when your R&G is at level 5 from your in game experiences, yet if you start with just level 3 in game you'd also just get downed due to not healing enough. It's like the game always make sure whatever heal you had is the wrong one, so I just went with level 5 since overkill on heal is better than being downed.

Stony

I just wanted to add that Kamala does over 3k to each enemy for 3 ap more. Over 9k in total damage.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

So tell me why a 3* is a better dmg dealer than a 4* it just doesn't make sense unless they were trying to account for something else.

The only thing they were trying to account for is that everyone was using him, and they wanted that to stop. Mission accomplished.

Moon Roach

I miss surgical striking Daken, downing him and usually filling up with enough black for another surgical strike.

Maybe it's muscle-memory of a sorts, but I still kept looking for the transfer of AP from them to me.

Ah well, time to bench him.

Unknown

Stony wrote:

I just wanted to add that Kamala does over 3k to each enemy for 3 ap more. Over 9k in total damage.

Here again you're getting into that apples vs oranges territory that NP was alluding to above. While X-Force's damage was severely reduced, it's still a major board shake and that does have some value. Kamala's power doesn't do anything other than damage, and it costs more than a full match more (it's actually 4 AP difference, 8 vs 12). The closer the powers' effects, the easier it is to make a direct quantitative comparison, which is why abilities like Blamo, Thunderous Clap, and Power of Attorney are much better measuring sticks.

9fingers

A lot of garbage/ trolling being posted here. This is my analogy: players bought a top of the range device through effort, time and money then an update happened which meant your email is twice as fast (which nobody wanted) you just cant go on the internet anymore (which is one major reason for owning it). Lots of people are very angry. Many are getting their money back through the sale of goods act. Others are just pumping more money into new characters which is why D3 has done this nerf. Nothing to do with game play and all to do with $$$. So just like buying a phone, I'm not going to be giving an untrustworthy company anymore of my money. If you're pleased with the new XF, that's great. I hope they learn from this and don't destroy your favourite aspect of the game.
GL

Unknown

Because of work, I had played only briefly in the last 2 days, so yesterday I was planning to play 5-6 matches for a 200 point climb in the latest pvp. As soon as I used his green I noticed the reduced damage. I barely won the match against a team of Gamora/Blade/Cage and once the game ended, I walked away. After the nerf, XF would be fine as a 3*, but as a 4* he is ****. Definitely not worth the 400K+ ISO and all the grinding (or spending) for his covers. He is just too slow and boring to play now.

I guess it's time to take a break from the game. Maybe after 5-6 months they will have enough new players with a fully covered XF sitting at level 70. That will be the tιme to fix him again; something that will bring hot cash from ISO purchases. Then they can nerf him again after 3-4 months with the next wave of "rebalancing" of characters.

Unknown

Xforces green sucks. And why is it that whenever everyone is discussing a character, you all refer to their powers when they're fully covered or maxed out? Most, like me, don't have 4* maxed out. With 2-3 covers, his green is laughable.

Unknown

I would say that Xforce's green is a good 3* ability. The board shake is worth more than 4 AP per use on average from cascades (somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the time you get nothing but on other occasions you get multiple matches so it comes to approximately 4.5 tiles per use).

An 8 cost ability is more than 4 AP easier to fire off than a 12 cost ability because each time you match a colour the next match is harder to get BUT, slower matches from more HP makes that a lot less of a big deal.

The cascades (and to a lesser degree chance to destroy enemy special tiles AND ability to take a board with no matches you want to make and potentially give you a board with something better) mean it's not dumpster tier and I would say it's better than blammo and thunderous clap (the 2 most similar greens) BUT I would also say all 3 are too random in nature to be generally more useful than pure damage abilities.... they are something the character has not something you pick the character to have availible to you.

I think board shake (and resultant cascades) are somewhat undervalued by players in general. When ppl discuss abilities with shake they often only have a very loose idea how much in the way of AP that ability has been giving them WHEREAS damage (and the lack thereof) is incredibly apparent.

Now if your argument is it's bad for a 4*... yep. I'll give you that (at least IMO). Just not sure it compares all that unfavourably to 3* abilities.

@NP

I agree the comparisons might not be as applicable as they could be but it's a good stab at explaining an opinion and since when is "farming rage rep" a thing? Does that mean other people are just "farming white knight rep"? You need to re-educate yourself in one of the threads about being nicey nicey to other posters!!!!

Polares

I have been playing A LOT with the new XForce since friday and it is clear he is way worse than before (obvius I know).

First XForce. Thing is, cascades are great, board removal is great BUT just if there is some, Imdon't know you, but you can say that it removes the tiles you want maybe 25% of the time, and you have a cascade every 3-5 tries. For me most of the time I get a match 3, so nothing big. And here comes the problem, YOU DON'T KNOW THE OUTCOME OF YOUR ABILITY WHEN YOU FIRE IT, and this is a very big problem. Before this was a bonus, you had a very good base damage, but now this is the most important part of the ability, and it is too unreliable . Devs NEED to rise damage to 2000 base or lower the cost by 1 or 2.

SS. This one is very tricky. Yes they raised the damage, but now there is a very big problem, you can't fire SS if the color being destroyed is one you want. Before you got this color, but now you remove it completely from the board so you can't match it anymore for a while.

Yellow. Thing is, it is better but it is very dangerous, if the AI matches it and destroys 9 random tiles (not in X) it has a good chane of getting a cascade against you. Even if you already won. So you need to match the tile yourself.


After all these changes I really think he is even worse than 4hor. And you need 5 in green because after you have fired SS you will probably need a board shake up if you needed that color.

I can live with SS, but XForce needs to improve. As soon as I have Cyclops leveled (I also need 1 black cover) I will stop using XForce most of the time.
Devs need to stop over nerfing, they do it all the time.

Square

If they 'fix' XF, there's going to be a load of anger from people who sold it. I spent six months building my XF up. Six months, and it just sucked in PVP. So I sold it, and put it towards Iron Fist and Cyclops. If they ever buff him, I'm going to punch the screen if they don't give that back to me. I'm very much on the verge of quitting. This PVP has been the worst for me in months, and I have a dozen maxed 3*s. Things are super slow, the buffed health means I need more health packs. I'm trying to enjoy it, but it's not great. I worked hard, got into great shape over a long time. And the company has hit me in the kneecaps with a crowbar. So, I'm running with a limp, and making the best of it.

But if they fix XF now, it'll be too little, too late. I'm not working another six months to get a playable XF. D3 have gotten themselves into a no-win situation. They messed this nerf up bad, they have to stick it out.

Heartburn

i will have to agree with the last post, i think some people are overvaluing his board shake, in about the same way the devs overvalue situation abilities and ddq hp drops, it is unreliable and should not be what is expected.

simonsez

Square wrote:

They messed this nerf up bad, they have to stick it out.

I could've say the same thing about the original buff... but they felt no obligation to stick THAT out...

Unknown

How about making all his abilities targetable? Just that, no number changes. Random placed countdowns are always infuriating. SS that can target any coulour gets rid of 'which is strongest colour' **** and give you ability to setup massive assassinations by using other characters to flood board with one colour. X-Force that can target and destroy countdown(s) you want, although at level 5 I'd say only one of X-s being target with two others still random, characters with countdowns as their main abilities already suffer enough.

Square

simonsez wrote:

Square wrote:

They messed this nerf up bad, they have to stick it out.

I could've say the same thing about the original buff... but they felt no obligation to stick THAT out...

But nobody sold XF over the buff. In my alliance, a number of people already have. If/when they change it, that will be a new furore with a lot of vets.