**** Wolverine (X-Force) ****

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  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    LuciferianX wrote:
    * X-Force should allow the player to pick the target point. It's too random. I likely won't get this wish, but considering that it's under powered damage wise (compared to X-23, particularly), getting to select the center of the impact would be great.
    Yes, X-Force should be targeted (up to 3 targeted points at rank 5).
    Alternatively: "When this power is used, new tiles have a % chance to be strike tiles until the board settles"
    X-Force used to make strike tiles. Now, he's the only Wolverine that doesn't make them. Only one in the family even. I'd like seeing that changed.
    LuciferianX wrote:
    * Surgical Strike needs to reduce the target's pool by the number of tiles destroyed. Yes, this will likely result in the old-school "empty the battery" from XFW 2.0, however, despite dealing very good damage (assuming 10 tiles on the board, 11 AP - 7810 damage is solid, but not spectacular) it doesn't have the 'oomph' of other top tier attack abilities. These include HB's infinite red, TGTs infinite stacking charge tiles, etc. Compare this to the 13 point (again, red) Out of Bullets and there's no comparison. It is a Black ability, but the feedback is that the tiles are removed for everyone. If you need that color, hope you have it before he throws it.
    The AP destruction made no sense to me for the character. The psychic and magical characters destroy or generate AP, and that makes sense, but Wolverine is neither of those. The straight damage is the better thing.

    XF Wolverine does need some definite buffs, changes. There's just so little risk in attacking him.
  • ErikPeter
    ErikPeter Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    I can think of two things that'd make him great again.

    greenflag.png buffed back to pre-nerf levels. Basically just +2k damage at rank 5.

    blackflag.png allow the player to select a color to be destroyed, instead of targeting the enemy's strongest color. That way you can ensure you do max damage (usually around ~12x781 = 9k and sometimes better which would be pretty solid) or destroy particular special tiles, which is very fitting for a "surgical strike".

    I think it's weird that yellowflag.png is best used offensively, maybe it'd be cooler (and less wonky, with the tile destruction causing cascades on the enemy turn) if instead of exploding when matched away, it made some big Strike tiles. (which would still be offensive, but as mentioned above, be more Wolveriney)
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mexus said:
    I have a question:

    Is this guy truly BAD?
    Or just very disappointing compared to his former self?

    From the pool of vaulted characters he's the one I have most covers for (8 to be exact) - is he worth bonus;ing? It would be fun to level up / champ a character that everyone isn't already using (to spread some diversity into the SHIELD Simulator)

    He's bad. Although he does have his uses with a black nuke and great board shake for all 3 skills, the power creep hit him hard. His low HP pool makes him a target and it's easy to defeat him in PvP. In PvE, he won't be much help when your champ 3*s are more useful.

    Personally I would not recommend making XFW your first 4* champ. Your PvE scaling and PvP matchmaking will dramatically increase.. you need at least 3 really good 4*s to champ (e.g. latest 12: Medusa, Carol, Coulsen). 
  • Piro_plock
    Piro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
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    mexus said:
    Punisher5784 said:
    mexus said:
    I have a question:

    Is this guy truly BAD?
    Or just very disappointing compared to his former self?

    From the pool of vaulted characters he's the one I have most covers for (8 to be exact) - is he worth bonus;ing? It would be fun to level up / champ a character that everyone isn't already using (to spread some diversity into the SHIELD Simulator)

    He's bad. Although he does have his uses with a black nuke and great board shake for all 3 skills, the power creep hit him hard. His low HP pool makes him a target and it's easy to defeat him in PvP. In PvE, he won't be much help when your champ 3*s are more useful.

    Personally I would not recommend making XFW your first 4* champ. Your PvE scaling and PvP matchmaking will dramatically increase.. you need at least 3 really good 4*s to champ (e.g. latest 12: Medusa, Carol, Coulsen). 
    Thanks for reply! I think you misunderstood a bit though,
    I have a few champs already; Carol, Blade, Red Hulk, Medusa, Wasp, Power Man and then a few ones at 13 covers (Spider Woman, Gwenpool - meh) and a bunch at 12 - 11 covers (Riri, Coulson, Iron Fist, Mordo). 
    These are characters everyone is already using so I thought I could maybe build one of the vaulted ones next to get a more diverse team that stands out a bit from the norm. :) But OK, no X-Force yet.

    I'll probably champ Coulson next if I'm not super-lucky with the tokens and get Cloak & Dagger fully covered (8 covers ATM).
    Gwenpool is actually quite similar in concept to X-Force, but in my opinion she's better.
    - GP's board shake is superior in every aspect: random board shake to create cascades or a precise, targeted destruction, depending on the situation... better than XFW's green (much more damage and only 1 AP more) and yellow (same cost, usually more damage and more control)
    - GP's Chekhov's Gun usually deals more damage than Surgical Strike (12.7k vs 5-9k on average) for 1 less AP. SS is not a bad ability per se (it will almost always create cascades and prevent enemies from collecting their strongest colour, after all), but it's not the best nuke there is.
    - Both have equal healthpoints (if on the same level), but GP has a decent defensive ability (black) which can offset that a little. Granted, XFW has true healing, but it's not a passive, countdown is slow and pretty unreliable. Without prologue healing it's very likely that you would end up using healthpacks on him anyway.

    Her biggest flaw is of course the necessity of keeping a cheat sheet with 'Sploits codes, but you can just treat her purple as random tile destruction and enter 349 every time (or 149/679 for random row/column, which deals a bit more damage).
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think Yondu and Yaka Parachute clearly indicate that XFW could use some more health, and a healing ability that actually does healing without waiting on a 3-turn CD to resolve.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    More health would be gladly welcomed, though if his yellow was a passive heal (like Patch's) that'd help make up for low health.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Kind of. The problem that healing can't solve, though, is that he's in one-shot range of quite a number of powers even when at full health.

    Only Gwenpool and Professor X have HP that low, and I don't think anyone minds that Prof X doesn't have too much health, for both flavor and balance reasons. 
  • steakleather
    steakleather Posts: 121 Tile Toppler
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    Make the yellow a 3-turn countdown tile that restores some health each turn while on the board, but that has the same tile-destruction effect if matched. Voila!
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    steakleather said:
    Make the yellow a 3-turn countdown tile that restores some health each turn while on the board, but that has the same tile-destruction effect if matched. Voila!
    That makes sense. You could have it that the first 2 times it restores a smaller amount and when the countdown resolves you get the rest, so as still to keep some point of having it as a countdown in the first place.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
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    X-Force is far from the worst 4*, but hes a shadow of his former self.

    In all honesty, reverse his Green, Give him a bit more health, leave everything else alone, and he'd be perfect.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
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    As has been stated many times, this is the only Wolverine who doesn't make strike tiles. 
    They should keep his green cheap, and the weak damage is fine, but make 3-5 strike tiles before (or after) the board destruction. I think you would see a renewed interest in XFW with this simple change. 
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think he needs passive healing, too. His yellow mechanic sucks.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
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    I have a cover of him on the vine, and I'm 300k ISO away to champ him (have 200k at the moment), but I don't know if I should invest in him or not. I see a lot of mixed opinions on him. His black is great, that I know, but what he is like when he is boosted ? Can he compete with the likes of Carol, Medusa & the rest of the bunch, or am I better off, championing someone else for the time being ? 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
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    D4Ni13 said:
    I have a cover of him on the vine, and I'm 300k ISO away to champ him (have 200k at the moment), but I don't know if I should invest in him or not. I see a lot of mixed opinions on him. His black is great, that I know, but what he is like when he is boosted ? Can he compete with the likes of Carol, Medusa & the rest of the bunch, or am I better off, championing someone else for the time being ? 

    There are no mixed opinions.
    He's bottom of the 4* barrel, easily one of the 5 worst characters in the tier.
    Even boosted he's not worth using, he's _that_ bad.
  • hopper1979
    hopper1979 Posts: 564 Critical Contributor
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    If they reduced the countdown on his yellow or upped his hp by a couple of thousand he might be playable but he is so easy to counter currently it is difficult to get much use out of him other than when he is boosted.  He needs a real rework.  Save your iso for somebody else and wait for the update.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There are times when he's really useful. He OWNED the last Galactus event for me, as an example. I would have gone through a lot more health packs without his black doing massive chunks of (boosted) damage and his green re-arranging bad boards.

    Partnering him with classic Magneto and Loki allowed me to punch far beyond my level back when I was still  in 3* land and XFW was my only champed 4-star. When PvE had scaling (before SCL) this was a godsend.

    But yeah, he's still bottom tier. His green can cause cascades but that's not reliable and it hits about as hard as a newborn kitten. His yellow is non-existant to me, it's so bad. And his black is too expensive to be of use without an accelerator like 3fist to feed him, which limits team composition.
  • hopper1979
    hopper1979 Posts: 564 Critical Contributor
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    If his yellow was fortified it might be passable, I actually view it as a board shake trap than anything else. :)
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
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    I champed him despite not being top tier. I figured that since I don't have other immediate targets to champ & because it's double ISO time, I would just make back the 300k I just spent on him. Got a LT for it, and I may use that in the future. 

    Maybe he will get some love at the beginning of the next season, since it's X-Men time ? 

    Planning to use him for cascades and board shuffle, so I built him 5-5-3. 
    I tend to like using him in boss battles, so perfect timing for Apocalypse :). 


    hopper1979 said:
    If his yellow was fortified it might be passable, I actually view it as a board shake trap than anything else. :)
    Making his tile fortified would really help. Small change with big impact. Bringing his HP closer to the medium (13995) would also help. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    His black isn't completely terrible when boosted but otherwise, meh.

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