**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) ****

JamieMadrox

The fact that 3* Thor buffed in the Human Torch event is better than 4* Thor should be an indicator that they still need to do work on her. The new buffs were designed specifically to make the 3* characters that are buffed just slightly better than a 4* character, but he is much better than she is.

That's sexist.

tanis3303

You can see my thread documenting my experiences with all of the changed characters sans Iron Fist for full details, but the short version is in order to make her work vs very highly scaled enemies, I had to save either 18 blue and 10 red for a double surge/smite or 9 blue and 20 red for a surge/double smite, and even then it wasn't guaranteed to do what I needed it to do. With that much AP stockpiled, I would have been better off using Lcap or Cmags, maybe even Daredevil for the same results. The nerf went too far, she's no longer good. She's a 3* with a ton of health, just as many predicted.

Unknown

Going to but 4thor in a blender then put the pieces back together and see what I get.

Smite 10 AP
5 covers max level does 4k Damage and a 3 turn stun.

Striking Distance 12 AP
At 5 covers does 2100 +300 per charge tile AOE damage.

Power surge 9 AP
At 5 covers converts 5(really want to say 8 but going with what she has now) basic R/B/Y tiles to charge tiles, and converts up to 3 enemy special tiles to charge tiles.


Like this her stun, charge tile generation, and charge tile multiplier damage would all in different buckets.

Honestly surprised she doesn't have a "and consumes all charge tiles on the board" clause to smite in any of her templates which would make it "safer" to give her more charge tiles if she only gets to use them once.

Unknown

tanis3303 wrote:

You can see my thread documenting my experiences with all of the changed characters sans Iron Fist for full details, but the short version is in order to make her work vs very highly scaled enemies, I had to save either 18 blue and 10 red for a double surge/smite or 9 blue and 20 red for a surge/double smite, and even then it wasn't guaranteed to do what I needed it to do. With that much AP stockpiled, I would have been better off using Lcap or Cmags, maybe even Daredevil for the same results. The nerf went too far, she's no longer good. She's a 3* with a ton of health, just as many predicted.

I saw that. I actually originally had my post in that thread; however, I decided since you were discussing all of the changes, it would be unkind of me to hijack it and make it just about 4or.

I do think your thread http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26121#p320908 give a lot more detail of player experience regarding the changes to 4or.

I also agree with your assessment that there are definitely better 3* characters than 4or in ther current form. I think part of the problem is that they continue to struggle with the charged tile feature. They obviously do not want to scrap it, but since it's a unique feature it is more complicated and difficult to balance characters associated with it. I do not think that the fact an ability produces charged tiles should be factored that heavily into the equation. Charge tiles are neutral and available for either team to use. Therefore, they should be given the same value of protect tiles, attack tiles, or even web tiles.

I will continue to reiterate the most fundamental test is how much damage does she do in comparison to other 4*'s. I belive they to get that right first, then go and give her other abilities within those confines. In other words instead of starting with the entire equation and keeping it balanced, start with damage first, then add other stuff into the equation until it is balanced. A PS followed by a Smite should do a min of 8000 damage to even be close in the same ball park as the other quality 4* characters.

radav

She's not good now. I think that's a big problem when you consider the amount of HP, ISO and time it takes to get a 4* to a useable level. There are a lot better 3* characters out there now. I think the key to making her better should be her yellow. Before when her blue and red powers were as good as they were it didnt matter that here yellow was a **** skill. Why not take that yellow ability and turn it into something that helps accelerate her damage? This is probably too OP but my thought was to turn it into an ability similar to BP's blue or Punisher's Molotov Cocktail. Her tile would randomly charge a red, blue or yellow tile on the board every turn or every other turn. It could be one tile or a couple tiles that get charged up per charging event. In this way it's similar to LThor's Yellow which is his move that accelerates him towards his big bang but it has a bit of a drawback in that it can get matched away. This would work similarly to Lthor but have the ability to make her really strong. If the concern is that the number of tiles created could get out of hand fast. Why not have smite uncharge all or half of the charged tiles on the board? Then she could build to her big move and then have to work towards it again. Something should be done she's just not worthy of anything resembling 4 stars atm.

radav

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Going to but 4thor in a blender then put the pieces back together and see what I get.

Smite 10 AP
5 covers max level does 4k Damage and a 3 turn stun.

Striking Distance 12 AP
At 5 covers does 2100 +300 per charge tile AOE damage.

Power surge 9 AP
At 5 covers converts 5(really want to say 8 but going with what she has now) basic R/B/Y tiles to charge tiles, and converts up to 3 enemy special tiles to charge tiles.


Like this her stun, charge tile generation, and charge tile multiplier damage would all in different buckets.

Honestly surprised she doesn't have a "and consumes all charge tiles on the board" clause to smite in any of her templates which would make it "safer" to give her more charge tiles if she only gets to use them once.

I just made the same suggestion in her thread in the character discussion forum. I think it would be a really good way to go and it kind of makes sense in terms of how a lightning strike works. You build to a lightning strike and the power gets dissipated. I think they could tweak her red to consume all or a major portion of the charged tiles and use her yellow to supply the charged tiles similar to how Lthor's yellow accelerates him towards his green.

Unknown

But this is new balance for the 4* tier, just one more to go (X-F) and D3 can start with 5*

babinro

The thing that made this character feel unique and exciting to me were the charged tiles.

The current execution of the character makes these tiles an afterthought. The excitement and RISK are completely gone. You cast the blue red combo and then maybe get one match that includes these or maybe not. The game almost instantly returns back to normal.

Understand what makes the character FUN and roll with it.

Let Thor spam the board with 12 charged tiles using her blue. Let her yellow replace ALL specialty tiles up to 5 again and include web tiles, force bubbles and invisible tiles in the list. Let people have fun spamming the board with these things.

To bring her in line..
- Remove stun from the character.
We know how powerful this combines with charged tile AP generation so let players bring in a second character for support stun if they want it. If you need to add another effect or minor damage to her blue beyond generating 12 charged tiles then fine. Stun is too good and removes the RISK factor.

- Adjust Smite
Example1: Smite deals 5000 damage. If there are 5 of more charged tiles on the board than smite deals an additional 5000 damage. If there are 4 or less charged tiles Smite generates 5 charged tiles.

Example 2: Keep Smite as is but drastically reduce it's damage per charged tile to reach the desired blue+red outcome (4000 base plus 400 per tile x 12 tiles = 8,800 damage)

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Honestly surprised she doesn't have a "and consumes all charge tiles on the board" clause to smite in any of her templates which would make it "safer" to give her more charge tiles if she only gets to use them once.

That'd be one way to up damage on her . Have it destroy all charge tiles for damage (no AP), increasing the damage on the front guy by quite a bit since most charge tiles right now are her's. If you had 8 from a Power Smite you'd do 1752 ish extra damage to front guy plus cascade potential. Have it do AoE damage plus destroy charge tiles, resolve cascades, and then convert up to 3 specials.

Unknown

as a big advocate and pro 4* should be legendary, i really shake my head at some comments

yes, she is not as strong as she was before the nerf (duh!) but shes still frigging strong!
are u folks really complaining because she cant do 20k dmg any longer and ONE SHOT big targets? srsly? no one should one shot anyone.

can u tell me why u think that 3* like loki and daken are better.

Dauthi

I didn't understand why people would need to test drive her post nerf to see she won't do damage anymore. Damage is damage, and 7kish after building up all that AP is pretty bad.

Now that people see it with their own eyes I hope more complain until she is buffed to the point she is a top tier character like 3* Thor.

I still find it interesting she was nerfed during women appreciation month too, and forced below the status of her male counterpart. The irony is not lost on me.

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

She's much weaker than she was against big HP targets. But she's my only viable partner for XF at the moment, so I've been using her a lot in this past PvP.

For my situation, she's still really good. (Of course, perhaps if I had more leveled alternatives I could better judge if she starts or gets the bench for the vets.)

I've had to XF or SS big targets to get them in range for 4hor combo. Since blue --> red doesn't one-shot big targets anymore, I generally save it until there's a decent amount of blue and red on the board. But 10 charged tiles on the board still leave decent amount of acceleration options. You actually have to consider the state of the board (gasp).

The stun is still amazing, you basically guaranteed the win when one opponent is left.

Cmags is a better mate for xf now.

simonsez

curlymustache wrote:

are u folks really complaining because she cant do 20k dmg any longer and ONE SHOT big targets? srsly? no one should one shot anyone.

Stop Phantroning us. There's a pretty big gap between 20k and 7k.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

curlymustache wrote:

are u folks really complaining because she cant do 20k dmg any longer and ONE SHOT big targets? srsly? no one should one shot anyone.

Stop Phantroning us. There's a pretty big gap between 20k and 7k.

Only if your opponent is using 4hor or you're in PvE

Unknown

It's more that Will and Miles asked us to test drive her first before passing judgement. We have, she sucks, it's judgement day.

Raffoon

Lerysh wrote:

It's more that Will and Miles asked us to test drive her first before passing judgement. We have, she sucks, it's judgement day.

They also promised she'd still be fun......

I expect they'll buff her to 7 tiles in another year. That should match their buff/nerf cycle timeframe as it stands currently.

What are they doing with all that time? It can't be much testing if they're revising calculations from 12 tiles to 5.

Raffoon

Lerysh wrote:

I only voted for one option because that's all I assumed I could vote for. The poll is useless if you allow so many selections.

I allowed up to 4 votes per person. I figured that people could vote for a range of options, since they might consider multiple options as reasonable. People may also value the stun length differently, so the scale isn't a strictly increasing one. For instance 4 turns and 7 tiles might be equal to 3 turns and 9 tiles in some people's eyes, but one might win out for others.

Regardless, given how few people picked the current option, the poll does still offer valuable information. For instance, given 99 votes currently, 6 are for the current option and none are for nerf harder. Let's assume that everyone voted 4 times, which they didn't but this will be the most lenient to the current option. That means that roughly 25 people voted. So 6/25 = less than 1 in 4 people agree with the current implementation. And again, that's being very generous.

dkffiv

Pretty sure against high HP targets LCap is better and for low hp targets Cmags is better. We'll see next pve.

Raffoon

Tiny Kitty does not cover this situation. Micro Jaguar you, devs. Itty-bitty-Lion ruined this character.

Unknown

Raffoon wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

It's more that Will and Miles asked us to test drive her first before passing judgement. We have, she sucks, it's judgement day.

They also promised she'd still be fun......

I expect they'll buff her to 7 tiles in another year. That should match their buff/nerf cycle timeframe as it stands currently.

What are they doing with all that time? It can't be much testing if they're revising calculations from 12 tiles to 5.

I'm still holding out hope they'll get it right this time. I know they previously overnerfed Sentry and still have not fixed him. However, I think this will be different for several reasons.

1. I think that they know all eyes are no them. A lot of people doled out a lot more money on a 4* than a 3*. With them saying they want to put out a lot of 4*'s, a lot of people are going to see how they treat 4or before running out to spend money on future 4*'s.

2. Sentry seems a lot more complicated to fix. 4or seems to only need 2-3 additional charged tiles from PS and she would be better. If they could tweak yellow (per The Legend's suggestion) that would help at least put ther on the same tier as the other 4*'s.

3. They never made the promise that Sentry would still be good when he was nerfed. They did say 4or should still be good. Being that she's a 4*, when they say good, I take that to mean she will be good compared to other 4*'s, not good compared to other non-4* characters.

4. When Prof X was coming out, they stepped up and made the changes to MQ and MMN. The did nerf the Fist purple within a much more reasonable time that some OP powers in the past, not counting BP black.

5. Sentry was important to the Dark Reign story line. 4or is one of the flagships of the current Marvel universe. I seriously doubt Marvel wants negative attention aimed at this character right now. 4or not being as good as other 4*'s (imo) qualifies as bad for what Marvel is trying to do right now.