**** Thor (Goddess of Thunder) ****

Raffoon

The_Valeyard wrote:

5. Sentry was important to the Dark Reign story line. 4or is one of the flagships of the current Marvel universe. I seriously doubt Marvel wants negative attention aimed at this character right now. 4or not being as good as other 4*'s (imo) qualifies as bad for what Marvel is trying to do right now.

That's true, someone clue Marvel into this, haha (I'm only half kidding). Why do you think they redid Wolverine's art and reworked Xforce? Because having Wolverine be badass is integral to the Marvel brand. It's the same reason they time characters to coincide with movie releases. A lot of freedom may be given to the Developers, but at the end of the day, they have to answer to Big Daddy Marvel.

So how do the 4Thor changes reflect on the Marvel brand? The banner character sitting at the top of the All New Avengers cover at 4* rarity get's nerfed to just-better-than-obsolete status during a time when the company agenda is to push "Women's Month?"

Unknown

curlymustache wrote:

as a big advocate and pro 4* should be legendary, i really shake my head at some comments

yes, she is not as strong as she was before the nerf (duh!) but shes still frigging strong!
are u folks really complaining because she cant do 20k dmg any longer and ONE SHOT big targets? srsly? no one should one shot anyone.

can u tell me why u think that 3* like loki and daken are better.

Um.. There are a TON of 3*s that can one shot 2*s. Like a literal metric ton of body weight worth of dudes. Even the 5880 health ones like Ares. Why shouldn't a 4* be able to 1 shot a 3* with NINTEEN FRIGGIN AP? Hmm?

I don't want sustainable 20k damage smites from multiple castings of Power Surge, match blue, match red, Power Surge, Smite leaving the board all covered in charge tiles. I DO want Thor to be able to kick **** and take names with her giant hammer, which means 10k damage for using Power Surge + Smite. I don't care how you get there, but that's the damage I want.

Pylgrim

Good luck with this. Sentry's nerfs went also overboard, even more badly than 4hor's and to date it hasn't even been mentioned a desire of improvement.

Unknown

For PvE, neither Magneto nor Captain America can possibly withstand the damage you'd normally need Thor to tank for. While Thor is indeed pretty bad after this nerf, she'd still be better if you've to take a even decent sized hit (5-8K or so for a highly scaled opponent) which neither Captain America nor Magneto can realistically survive. Also Thor can easily withstand accumulating say 3K damage on her (a fairly normal game against high end PvP opponent) while Captain America cannot, as starting the next fight at 5K is generally instant KO range for even a weak move.

At any rate Thor is kind of in a design dead end. You don't get to have about twice the HP of the previous best PvE character (Captain America) and 6K more than X Force and still expect to do anything else besides taking damage. If she could do anything else useful she'd be too powerful because of her huge HP advantage. People like to pretend HP doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter *that* much, but when 5K is a weak hit from your opponent you got to have a lot of HPs. Yes X Force tanks like a champ, but he doesn't meaningfully regenerate in the middle of a game so usually he can still only take one 5K hit unless you somehow sneaked in a Recovery between attacks, and even true-healing gods like Patch/Daken isn't going to take multiple 5K hits against high level PvE opponents unless they're major boosted. I think I'd just take my chances anyway because I see no value in dragging out a fight with a weaker character, but there are definitely situations where a stronger character with less HP (which is everyone else) will simply be downed by something that Thor can withstand and end up contributing a lot less than Thor, even in her nerfed state.

Unknown

If you can read this, go and say how much you want Thor (GT) buffed.

Unknown

Pylgrim wrote:

Good luck with this. Sentry's nerfs went also overboard, even more badly than 4hor's and to date it hasn't even been mentioned a desire of improvement.

Yeah, but that's at least kinda fitting for the character. Both in the comics as in life, everyone just sort of wants to forget poor ole mentally delusional Bobby Reynolds.

dkffiv

Phantron wrote:

For PvE, neither Magneto nor Captain America can possibly withstand the damage you'd normally need Thor to tank for. While Thor is indeed pretty bad after this nerf, she'd still be better if you've to take a even decent sized hit (5-8K or so for a highly scaled opponent) which neither Captain America nor Magneto can realistically survive. Also Thor can easily withstand accumulating say 3K damage on her (a fairly normal game against high end PvP opponent) while Captain America cannot, as starting the next fight at 5K is generally instant KO range for even a weak move.

At any rate Thor is kind of in a design dead end. You don't get to have about twice the HP of the previous best PvE character (Captain America) and 6K more than X Force and still expect to do anything else besides taking damage. If she could do anything else useful she'd be too powerful because of her huge HP advantage. People like to pretend HP doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter *that* much, but when 5K is a weak hit from your opponent you got to have a lot of HPs. Yes X Force tanks like a champ, but he doesn't meaningfully regenerate in the middle of a game so usually he can still only take one 5K hit unless you somehow sneaked in a Recovery between attacks, and even true-healing gods like Patch/Daken isn't going to take multiple 5K hits against high level PvE opponents unless they're major boosted. I think I'd just take my chances anyway because I see no value in dragging out a fight with a weaker character, but there are definitely situations where a stronger character with less HP (which is everyone else) will simply be downed by something that Thor can withstand and end up contributing a lot less than Thor, even in her nerfed state.

With CapAm you don't need to tank the damage because his protect tile will negate match damage and his shield is a much more reliable permastun. Goddess can't reliably permastun and her damage output is lower than Cap. One on one I'm not even sure a 270 4hor can take out a 395 Jugg anymore.

simonsez

Phantron wrote:

People like to pretend HP doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter *that* much

No, it really doesn't. Everything you just wrote seems more like a great argument as to how GT will help you lose slower thanks to her HP. Not much consolation there.

Trisul

After playing XF/4hor a lot in the recent PvP, my opinion on her is that she's decidedly mediocre on offense. She's more a utility character now, with a great stun to complement X-Force's damage... and not too much else.

Whenever my X-Force died (which happened a lot with 280 Torches and LThors running around), I basically lost the game. Old 4hor could win the game out of nowhere with the right board, but the new 4hor only tickles the giant health pools of the boosted 280s.

Xor is still effective while climbing (what isn't though), and I imagine it's pretty good against XFist/loaner teams, but facing teams with boosted characters is much, much slower, to the point where I'm considering benching 4hor at the upper end of PvP events, and looking for other options (namely XFist).

Polares

Ghost79 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Good luck with this. Sentry's nerfs went also overboard, even more badly than 4hor's and to date it hasn't even been mentioned a desire of improvement.

Yeah, but that's at least kinda fitting for the character. Both in the comics as in life, everyone just sort of wants to forget poor ole mentally delusional Bobby Reynolds.

Yeah I would really really love the devs to acknowledge that they made a mistake and they over nerfed 4hor, I don't know how they calculate their metrics bus 4hor is far far far away from doing 160% damage of a 3 (well, maybe if they are considering Beast).

We have all waited and played with her and she is not fun anymore, she has its uses but she no longer is top-tier. She should be buffed right away (8 power tiles should be ok).

PS: I don't really understand how their testers found this version of 4hor ok...

Dartmaster01

Polares wrote:

PS: I don't really understand how their testers found this version of 4hor ok...

Testers, that's hilarious!

Phaserhawk

Trisul wrote:

After playing XF/4hor a lot in the recent PvP, my opinion on her is that she's decidedly mediocre on offense. She's more a utility character now, with a great stun to complement X-Force's damage... and not too much else.

Whenever my X-Force died (which happened a lot with 280 Torches and LThors running around), I basically lost the game. Old 4hor could win the game out of nowhere with the right board, but the new 4hor only tickles the giant health pools of the boosted 280s.

Xor is still effective while climbing (what isn't though), and I imagine it's pretty good against XFist/loaner teams, but facing teams with boosted characters is much, much slower, to the point where I'm considering benching 4hor at the upper end of PvP events, and looking for other options (namely XFist).

I ended up running Xor but the old 3* version not 4hor. Yeah, that nerf kicked her way down the top tier ladder. It was an overnerf, nowhere as bad as Sentry who just went from top to bottom in one fell swoop, she's gone from top to middle, easily falling behind Fury in terms of 4*, I would Xavier and Fury over her in terms of 4* power, in fact if not for her stun I would say she might be weaker than Star-Lord.

Unless there really is a Gambit coming to save her, she needs a buff along with her Robotic brother Rags in terms of charged tiles. 12 tiles and a 4 turn stun was essentially 19AP = 2 dead characters. Now it's 19AP = 1 almost dead and one soon to be unstunned. Red is abymasal for a 4* without charged tiles to help it. If red applied the charged tiles first before the Smite dmg, well now we are talking and that might be another fix if d3 is adamant about not letting her create more charged tiles, but this is my fix.

Power Surge--Create 8 charged tiles stun 3 turns
Power Surge--Create 12 charged tiles, no stun

if not power surge fix then

Smite--create 3 charged tiles, then dealy 4K dmg plus 725 for each charged tile

I would even give up another turn of stun to get 8 tiles and Rags needs to create 5 tiles period, 3 is just terribly laughable

Ludaa

She's a stinker now, though somewhat useful still in PvE (where you can take your time). Charged tiles are too spread out which kills her best advantage, the chance at a first match. Without first match potential, they're just as open to the AI.

I highly doubt they'll change her again. I bet Demiurge_Miles regrets ever saying, "They're still fun." Considering their limited discussion on the topic, and the recent plans for buffed Versus events, it's clear to me they wanted the 270 wall brought down. That couldn't happen with pre-nerf GT running around. For better or worse, they definitely hurt their rep in a lot of vet's eyes. Plenty of people went out and bought Prof. X covers though, so not much reason for them to change! Kind of like the DLC/pre-order problem with video games.

Phaserhawk

I think we have all played her enough to realize one, how over powered she really was, and two, how too far she has fallen. I"m come up with some compromises for her abilties to fix this gal and bring her back into line.

I will not be addressing yellow as I think that got hit unnecessarily

Here goes

***
Edited to add final poll results

Item - Votes - % of Total Votes
Power Surge--Stuns 3 Turns creates 7 charged tiles - 8 - 18%
Power Surge--Stuns 3 Turns creates 8 charged tiles - 19 - 43%
Power Surge--Stuns 2 Turns creates 8 charged tiles - 1 - 2%
Power Surge--Something else not listed - 0 - No votes

Smite---Creates 3 charged tiles first, then does damage - 3 - 7%
Smite---Does 5000 dmg, and does 1000 per charged tile - 3 - 7%
Smite---Does 4000 dmg, and does 1000 per charged tile - 4 - 9%
Smite---Does 4000 dmg, and does 800 per charged tile - 5 - 11%
Smite--Something else not listed - 1 - 2%

MarvelMan

To be honest, Id love to see the PS charged tiles upped to 9 and opened up to all colors.

Unknown

Agreed, the only making charges on her colors always seemed odd and artificially inflates the value of those charges. Opening them up to all colors reduces the chance of one power surge immediately into a second and should logically allow more charge tiles to be made for the same cost without snowballing, while also making smite harder to charge but having a larger punch once it is.

I appreciate the spirit of this poll but I think her mechanics need a little tweaking and then balance the number of tiles. Just tweaking the existing numbers would be easy from the dev end but there are subtler ways to get more value out of her without calling for MORE TILES.

FaustianDeal

I would also like to see the 4th yellow cover be able to target countdown tiles again. Reduce the number of tiles, fine. But having countdowns require 5 covers basically invalidated any 'half-way' builds.

Too many of the 'trade-offs' the devs demand are to force us to pick '2 5s'.. they should find ways to make more of the '2 4s' builds look viable, and not like a ridiculous compromise you are stranded in while you wait to respec.

dkffiv

Phaserhawk wrote:

Trisul wrote:

After playing XF/4hor a lot in the recent PvP, my opinion on her is that she's decidedly mediocre on offense. She's more a utility character now, with a great stun to complement X-Force's damage... and not too much else.

Whenever my X-Force died (which happened a lot with 280 Torches and LThors running around), I basically lost the game. Old 4hor could win the game out of nowhere with the right board, but the new 4hor only tickles the giant health pools of the boosted 280s.

Xor is still effective while climbing (what isn't though), and I imagine it's pretty good against XFist/loaner teams, but facing teams with boosted characters is much, much slower, to the point where I'm considering benching 4hor at the upper end of PvP events, and looking for other options (namely XFist).

I ended up running Xor but the old 3* version not 4hor. Yeah, that nerf kicked her way down the top tier ladder. It was an overnerf, nowhere as bad as Sentry who just went from top to bottom in one fell swoop, she's gone from top to middle, easily falling behind Fury in terms of 4*, I would Xavier and Fury over her in terms of 4* power, in fact if not for her stun I would say she might be weaker than Star-Lord.

Unless there really is a Gambit coming to save her, she needs a buff along with her Robotic brother Rags in terms of charged tiles. 12 tiles and a 4 turn stun was essentially 19AP = 2 dead characters. Now it's 19AP = 1 almost dead and one soon to be unstunned. Red is abymasal for a 4* without charged tiles to help it. If red applied the charged tiles first before the Smite dmg, well now we are talking and that might be another fix if d3 is adamant about not letting her create more charged tiles, but this is my fix.

Power Surge--Create 8 charged tiles stun 3 turns
Power Surge--Create 12 charged tiles, no stun

if not power surge fix then

Smite--create 3 charged tiles, then dealy 4K dmg plus 725 for each charged tile

I would even give up another turn of stun to get 8 tiles and Rags needs to create 5 tiles period, 3 is just terribly laughable

Charged tiles without a stun is really really dangerous, I don't think I'd ever use that ability unless the enemy team has no abilities on red/blue/yellow. She lacks both control and burst which is why I'm pretty sure LCap is the better PvE hero again.

Unknown

Please bring balance back to the Thorce!

Unknown

raziel777 wrote:

But this is new balance for the 4* tier, just one more to go (X-F) and D3 can start with 5*

I have to disagree with this, d3 nerf all the 4* because they want to avoid another transition level. By the time all players transition to 4*, what will happen? New 5* coming soon. They did this to avoid 5* from happening real soon. I have to say they thought about this.