**** Elektra (Unkillable) ****

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Comments

  • john1620b
    john1620b Posts: 367
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    The change to her red didnt change the main problem with it (its easy to get it overridden by a lot of abilities).
    It's just not worth investing into.
    I agree with this, which is why I think 5/5/3 is the best build. A red trap just isn't super valuable, and the damage it does isn't that great. Black at least avoids damage, causes damage, and generates AP, which seems more valuable to me.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    She's really good with Patch and that's about it. Berserker -> DDX and it places **** on virtually every purple. Then you can fire another berserker a few turns later and only give the enemy another tile or two. Outside of that she's mostly useless.
  • hurcules
    hurcules Posts: 519
    dkffiv wrote:
    She's really good with Patch and that's about it. Berserker -> DDX and it places **** on virtually every purple. Then you can fire another berserker a few turns later and only give the enemy another tile or two. Outside of that she's mostly useless.
    She's definitely no good for PvP.

    However, against overscaled Muscle nodes in PvE, I have yet to find a faster character. Elektra + Docock + 3rd (maybe Falcon?) is awesome.
  • turul
    turul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    Elektra Shulkie Patch
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    turul wrote:
    Elektra Shulkie Patch

    I like Hulk Patch Elektra more. Get a ton of strike tiles out, steal them and get black off. Enemies kill themselves on counter attacks or Hulk anger tiles, their choice.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Considering I would only bring her in to counter strike tiles, I think her purple is her best ability. She wrecks anyone using them.

    While red isn't amazing, at 5 it is pretty solid damage for cheap. Black is nice, but it still works just as well at 3. 5 traps is a bit overkill, its unlikely that all will survive, losing the point of having 5 black covers in it (the damage doesn't go up significantly from 3 to 5 while red nearly doubles). I prefer her black at 3 because of this.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    After much deliberation and having her at 3/5/5, I'm reasonably convinced that she needs tweaked to be successful. As always, feel free to upvote/shoot down/deliberate.

    purpletile.png 7: Double Double Cross (DCC). Of all the powers, this is probably the most drastic change. Since she is a Legendary, I want her power to feel "Legendary." DCC retains all of its current functionality, with the following change:

    purpleflag.png 3: Can also convert protect tiles to strike tiles
    purpleflag.png 4: Can also convert attack (DOT) tiles to strike tiles
    purpleflag.png 5: Can convert any tile to strike tiles

    What this means: For 7 purple you have the opportunity to take away "the thing." This would raise her total utility tremendously, since she would no longer be restricted to only deployed strike tiles and thus "waste" 7 AP to set up/lose them before actually gaining funtionality. It would also create a strong argument for her purple to be pushed to 5.

    redtile.png 8: Ballet of Death. Remains the same, save for the following:

    If you match this tile, it changes location (but deals no damage). If the opponent matches this tile, it deals trap damage.

    What this means: That you aren't caught in circumstances where you've placed a trap tile that is then matched out because the placement is random before it deals damage, thus wasting 8 AP.

    blacktile.png 10: Shadowstep. Remains the same, save for the following:

    If you match this tile, it changes location (but deals no damage). If the opponent matches this tile, it deals trap damage. Again, to keep you from having wasted AP in a massive utility power, this means that Elektra doesn't have to tank to force her opponent to deal with the tiles, raising her cred in PVP dramatically, and keeping you from having to wait for that magical moment when there's five black tiles that aren't aligned and not likely to get matched out.

    Minor note: I do think her damage needs tweaked, specifically on Shadowstep, because there are too many other better trap producing characters than she. I'd also like to see Ballet tweaked slightly, but both of these would be less relevant if DDC converted other tile types, setting up her offense materially faster.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    LuciferianX wrote:
    redtile.png 8: Ballet of Death. Remains the same, save for the following:

    If you match this tile, it changes location (but deals no damage). If the opponent matches this tile, it deals trap damage.
    This doesn't fix the main problem of it getting overwritten by abilities like Daken and Blade's passives.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    True, but that's a uniform issue of Trap tiles, and one of the control mechanics. Making it a pure attack tile is an option, but it's built off of the trap concept. I agree, that's annoying as all get out, but I didn't want to propose a dramatic overhaul, but an adjustment.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    LuciferianX wrote:
    True, but that's a uniform issue of Trap tiles, and one of the control mechanics. Making it a pure attack tile is an option, but it's built off of the trap concept. I agree, that's annoying as all get out, but I didn't want to propose a dramatic overhaul, but an adjustment.
    One thing that'd help is make the trap a different color that generally doesn't get overwritten by strike tiles.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    I was thinking about this after I replied; you're absolutely right, if the trap were assigned to a random color (ie, random basic non team-up tile).

    The second thing I thought of was to split the tiles at levels 4 & 5; so 4 redflag.png does 1.25 more damage than 3 redflag.png , and split to two tiles; and 5 redflag.png is 1.45 more damage again, split into 2 (or possibly 3) tiles. That would more accurately reflect the fluidity of Elektra. The down side of course is that each attack tile is weaker than a single tile, so it's blocked independently, but if she has strike tiles down as she should, this is offset. So it would work very well.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    LuciferianX wrote:
    True, but that's a uniform issue of Trap tiles, and one of the control mechanics. Making it a pure attack tile is an option, but it's built off of the trap concept. I agree, that's annoying as all get out, but I didn't want to propose a dramatic overhaul, but an adjustment.
    Trap tiles need to be overhauled, or tuned like Caltrops/Recovery/Demolition.

    I should not be able to get away with just "overwriting" your trap tile(maybe doom's tiles, but everyone else has investment/ap in their tiles)

    But yeah, Elektra needs major fixes....if only carnage generated strike tiles, eh
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    Agreed; and the worst part is I really like her. She plays differently from almost every other character in the game, but the concept is not synchronizing with the execution. Stealthy ninja who steals your stuff and then uses it against you (specifically in the form of strike tiles to fuel trap tiles) should be super baller.

    If you change her deployment from Trap to Attack, that would make sense. It would also solve the problem, and at the very least you would get off one round of damage. But the terrible foolish truth is that I actually don't mind them as trap tiles, even as I agree that they are inherently squishy. Particularly if you face Daken/Blade/Betsy (although Betsy is less likely to cause an issue because of the expense, but it could still happen).

    If you really wanted to go all out, then you would have her trap tiles "dodge" overwrites, but that's unlikely. I think the best play here is what Simon suggested, and have them deploy randomly. Currently, every color save blacktile.png is a consistent target for strike tiles or other overwriters. It's also why I want them to split at higher levels, so that your 5 levels in Ballet feels like you're getting it from all sides and regardless of what you do, you've just been outmanouevered. In my mind's eye, she could be a subtle dismantling machine. Currently, she just doesn't have the tools on hand to do it consistently. And you're both right; you just don't bring her into a fight against Daken or Blade; shoot. I've seen 11 tiles on the board, I'm using one, one other is occupied, green match and ohsoconveniently it gets overwritten. Insert rage.
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    LuciferianX wrote:
    Agreed; and the worst part is I really like her. She plays differently from almost every other character in the game, but the concept is not synchronizing with the execution. Stealthy ninja who steals your stuff and then uses it against you (specifically in the form of strike tiles to fuel trap tiles) should be super baller.

    If you change her deployment from Trap to Attack, that would make sense. It would also solve the problem, and at the very least you would get off one round of damage. But the terrible foolish truth is that I actually don't mind them as trap tiles, even as I agree that they are inherently squishy. Particularly if you face Daken/Blade/Betsy (although Betsy is less likely to cause an issue because of the expense, but it could still happen).

    If you really wanted to go all out, then you would have her trap tiles "dodge" overwrites, but that's unlikely. I think the best play here is what Simon suggested, and have them deploy randomly. Currently, every color save blacktile.png is a consistent target for strike tiles or other overwriters. It's also why I want them to split at higher levels, so that your 5 levels in Ballet feels like you're getting it from all sides and regardless of what you do, you've just been outmanouevered. In my mind's eye, she could be a subtle dismantling machine. Currently, she just doesn't have the tools on hand to do it consistently. And you're both right; you just don't bring her into a fight against Daken or Blade; shoot. I've seen 11 tiles on the board, I'm using one, one other is occupied, green match and ohsoconveniently it gets overwritten. Insert rage.

    As it sits, it cannot be stolen. Leave it!
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    Independent thought: She's Legendary; you could insert the language, "If you match or disarm this tile, it changes location. If the opponent matches out or disarms this tile, they take trap damage." Thus you get a guarantee of the effect like any other character using 8 red at 5 levels. This would also solve the problem. It may be slightly OP in comparison, but given that for 10 bluetile.png Nick Fury can turn just about anything to dust, having a rotating trap that is scary to have on the board doesn't bother me much. Even if with both effects the cost was raised, it would be worth it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    LuciferianX wrote:
    Agreed; and the worst part is I really like her. She plays differently from almost every other character in the game, but the concept is not synchronizing with the execution. Stealthy ninja who steals your stuff and then uses it against you (specifically in the form of strike tiles to fuel trap tiles) should be super baller.

    If you change her deployment from Trap to Attack, that would make sense. It would also solve the problem, and at the very least you would get off one round of damage. But the terrible foolish truth is that I actually don't mind them as trap tiles, even as I agree that they are inherently squishy. Particularly if you face Daken/Blade/Betsy (although Betsy is less likely to cause an issue because of the expense, but it could still happen).

    If you really wanted to go all out, then you would have her trap tiles "dodge" overwrites, but that's unlikely. I think the best play here is what Simon suggested, and have them deploy randomly. Currently, every color save blacktile.png is a consistent target for strike tiles or other overwriters. It's also why I want them to split at higher levels, so that your 5 levels in Ballet feels like you're getting it from all sides and regardless of what you do, you've just been outmanouevered. In my mind's eye, she could be a subtle dismantling machine. Currently, she just doesn't have the tools on hand to do it consistently. And you're both right; you just don't bring her into a fight against Daken or Blade; shoot. I've seen 11 tiles on the board, I'm using one, one other is occupied, green match and ohsoconveniently it gets overwritten. Insert rage.
    yeah, look at moonstone black vs shulkie blue vs elektra purple. I don't want to dwell on it too much since we're in agreement but one kicks the other two's butt
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    @Mal -- note that I am all for leaving as Trap tiles, and I think that's what makes the most sense. Also you are correct, and make an excellent point. You can't steal a trap. I'm with you on this.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    And if I were to break completely from the current system, I might recommend this fix:

    Ballet of Death redflag.png (Passive) -- Death is a dance, and only Elektra knows the next step. At the beginning of her turn when her team has 8 or more red AP, she deploys a trap tile that deals n. damage every round. Conversion stops when there are x. traps on the board.

    In this concept, the solution is that once she builds up, she starts setting out traps. The total number of traps + damage should likely not exceed 800/1k.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    The problem with that is it would stop conversion once you used her blackflag.png .

    Her blackflag.png and redflag.png are not terrible. I wish blackflag.png cost a bit less, but whatever. Her purpleflag.png is just awful. It's on the border of good with the ability to steal giant strike tiles, but if you aren't facing Maggia Muscle or Sentry or Groot it is just wasted. It does, however, have the easiest fix in the world tho, simply have it create a strike tile for the friendly side if no enemy strike tiles exist. Something in the 250 range, as if she had stolen 2 to begin with and buffed them. Now you can use this ability to Double Double-Cross your enemies right off the bat, and set up tiles to steal in the future.

    With this change she would be totally usable at any build you like, without this change she brings dead weight and dead weight ain't fun to carry.
  • LuciferianX
    LuciferianX Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    One note: in the proposal for the passive, the assumption is that it would stop creating Ballet tiles. Unclear as I was in a rush, sorry about that.

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