**** Elektra (Unkillable) ****

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Comments

  • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
    Right, so agreed, her purpleflag.png is terrible not because it isn't awesome when it works, it's because if there's nothing to steal it "doesn't work," ie, all you've done (or the AI has done) is spent 7 purple to throw out 3 tiles for your opponent. This is not "Legendary." I even get the concept and think the name is cool, but that's exactly why I think an upgrade to "steal all of your things" is necessary. Make her a full blooded ninja/infiltrator. If she's Legendary, let her be legendary.

    Her black is expensive for what you get in its current iteration. If the traps had to be dealt with all the time, and any activated trap continued to return 1 AP (and we up the damage to 1.5k, please & thank you, he said, as he glared at Nick "I Can Drop the Sentry if He Looks at Me Wrong" Fury) then she'll be able to deploy them consistently once she hits threshold, and your opponent actually has something to worry about when matching blacktile.png but she isn't in front/tanking.

    I (still) like her current layout, it just needs an upgrade to be competitive with other four stars and functional in defense PVP.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have no clue on her "best build". I had her 5/3/4 but fell short of 1300 in cap PvP and have 1 coming in daily at day 610. Then got a red from m independence vault so now she's 5/3/5 and not sure to keep chasing 5/5/3 or leave as is.

    5/4/4 is not an option as 5/5/3 is better. She's either 3/5/5, 5/3/5, or 5/5/3

    PvE I think 5/5/3 is superior. She can really shutdown some tough scenarios, but PvP I think 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 play stronger, but because you can wait to double cast purple, putting 735 dmg on the board you have to keep purple at 5.

    5/3/5 or 5/5/3 is entirely team and environment dependent. 5/5/4 puts 2 extra dmg negation on the board and an extra 2.5k potential dmg. 5/3/5 puts about 700 extra per turn dmg on the board.

    In the end if you pair her with a better black user than 5/3/5 vs a better red than 5/5/3

    If you keep her with all 4* and assume you have to have 5 purple. It would go

    Fury--either or
    Xforce--5/3/5
    4hor---5/5/3
    Carnage--5/5/3
    Prof X--either or
    Hulkbuster--don't run them together
    IW--either or
    Thing--5/5/3
    StarLord--dont run them together
    KingPin--5/3/5

    In short she needs work as she doesn't bring anything that someone else doesn't do better.

    The thing is, I think Patch and Carnage are the only 2 decent pairings for her, as she can abuse Bezerker Rage or eat Carnage attack tiles for no dmg and pop them in the face too. I think I'll keep chasing 5/5/3 in hopes a black shows up somewhere and knowing I can combo her with carnage.

    I think an easy fix is lower purple to 6. Have black do even more dmg and beef red up to 1500 max but over 3 trap tiles that return 1 red if enemy matches or overwrites them, not you
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
    I think an easy fix is lower purple to 6. Have black do even more dmg and beef red up to 1500 max but over 3 trap tiles that return 1 red if enemy matches or overwrites them, not you
    Overwriting or destroying traps is one weakness all traps should have and I don't care if it is a five star character. icon_e_smile.gif Make their effect stronger/better, but leave us a way to counter them. Getting some AP back on enemy matches of her red trap (similar to her black) would be nice though, as would be if the trap itself could be placed on a random color.
  • Philly79Philly79 Posts: 422 Mover and Shaker
    you guys are all lucky enough to try her r & b powers i have only pulled 4 p covers since i started playing...it only becomes useable if there are strike tiles on the board unless you can stack 14 p ap that is
  • cynder9792 wrote:
    you guys are all lucky enough to try her r & b powers i have only pulled 4 p covers since i started playing...it only becomes useable if there are strike tiles on the board unless you can stack 14 p ap that is
    u can try her abilities in loaner nodes
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,032 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brainstormed a way to fix purple. Give her the Psylocke treatment, purple costs 3 AP +1 per enemy strike tile on the board, maximum 8 AP. Could leave it at 7 but I think 8 is a fair trade for increased usefulness. Would cost 9 AP to use against a team without tiles, matching away enemy purple tiles is somewhat helpful and she's a lot more effective against Sentry and Hulkbuster. Against Daken and Blade there are weird situations where I want them to create more tiles on board when there are only 1 or 2, with variable AP costs I wouldn't mind firing it off early.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,032 Chairperson of the Boards
    Since the Character Forums are largely ignored I figured I should post this here for more exposure. With a few tweaks Elektra can go from absolute garbage to mid-tier/usable.

    Current stats:

    At Max Level: HP: 13974 Tile Damage: 11/64/10/82/09/73/3.0
      Double-Double Cross - Cost: 7 Purple AP
      Elektra has “defected” to the enemy team, she’s working for them while secretly feeding her true allies powerful information. Elektra steals 1 enemy strike tile, improving it’s strength by 73, but she also converts 3 random purple basic tiles into enemy strike tiles of strength 9.
        Level 2. The stolen tile increases its strength by 110 Level 3. Elektra steals up to 2 enemy strike tiles, increasing their strength by 73. Level 4. The stolen tile increases its strength by 93. Level 5. Elektra steals 1 additional strike tile if there’s a friendly trap tile on the board. Stolen tiles increase their strength by 123.
      Max Level: Elektra steals 1 additional strike tile if there’s a friendly trap tile on the board. Stolen tiles increase their strength by 245.
        Shadow Step - Cost: 10 Black AP
        Elektra senses an attack coming and prepares to dodge into the shadows. She converts 2 random basic Black tiles into trap tiles. If Elektra would take damage, the damage is negated and a trap tile is destroyed, generating AP and dealing 274 damage.
          Level 2. Elektra converts 3 tiles into trap tiles Level 3. Trap tiles deal 310 damage Level 4. Elektra converts 4 tiles into trap tiles Level 5. Elektra converts 5 tiles into trap tiles, tiles deal 466 damage
        Max Level: Elektra converts 5 tiles into trap tiles, tiles deal 925 damage
          Ballet of Death - Cost: 8 Red AP
          Death is a dance and only Elektra knows the next blood-soaked step. She converts a random basic Red tile into a trap tile. As long as this tile is on the board, it deals 150 damage to the target enemy at the beginning of every turn.
            Level 2. The Trap tile deals 210 damage every turn. Level 3. The Trap tile deals 270 damage every turn. Level 4. The Trap tile deals 390 damage every turn. Level 5. The Trap tile deals 630 damage every turn.
          Max Level: The Trap tile deals 1247 damage every turn.

          Proposed purple change:
            Double-Double Cross - Cost: 3 Purple AP
            Elektra has “defected” to the enemy team, she’s working for them while secretly feeding her true allies powerful information. Elektra steals 1 enemy strike tile, improving it’s strength by 73, but she also converts 3 random purple basic tiles into enemy strike tiles of strength 9. Costs 1 more for each enemy Strike Tile (maximum cost 8).
              Level 2. The stolen tile increases its strength by 110 Level 3. Elektra steals up to 2 enemy strike tiles, increasing their strength by 73. Level 4. The stolen tile increases its strength by 93. Level 5. Elektra steals 1 additional strike tile. Stolen tiles increase their strength by 100.
            Max Level: Stolen tiles increase their strength by 200.

            Change purple to variable cost (like Psylocke Red) and have 5 covers always steal 3. The ability gets more expensive with more enemy tiles on the board ("harder" to double cross) but the functionality of the ability doesn't change (always steals a maximum of 3 tiles). Decreased the amount of improvement from 245 to 200 to compensate for always stealing 3 and being easier to use. At level 270 with 5 covers 9 purple AP will generate 654 worth of strike tiles (plus 54 for your enemy). Black Panther at 166 generates 525 (780 with 12 TU AP) for 9 yellow AP. Stealing a Sentry Sacrifice tile on an empty board will only cost 4 AP.

            Proposed red change:
              Ballet of Death - Cost: 6 Red AP
              Death is a dance and only Elektra knows the next blood-soaked step. She converts a random basic Red tile into a trap tile. As long as this tile is on the board, it deals 150 damage to the target enemy at the beginning of every turn.
                Level 2. The Trap tile deals 210 damage every turn. Level 3. The Trap tile deals 270 damage every turn. Level 4. The Trap tile deals 390 damage every turn. Level 5. Create 2 Trap tiles that deal 270 damage every turn.
              Max Level: Two Trap tile deals 535 damage every turn.

              Red has a lot of problems but the main functionality change is that it should have each trap tick individually (would like to see this for Ant-Man's yellow as well). Red's damage is terrible and the trap itself is easily overwritten, if it ticked individually (so that each trap's damage was increased by your strike tiles) and the cost was reduced to 6 I think I could live with the drawbacks it currently has.
            • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
              Can we just put the traps on any other color besides red? Given her purple, it makes no sense to use the same color that the two spammiest strike tile generators are using.
            • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
              simonsez wrote:
              Can we just put the traps on any other color besides red? Given her purple, it makes no sense to use the same color that the two spammiest strike tile generators are using.

              would be easier to make it an actual attack tile, that could not be overwritten
            • KolenceKolence Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
              Malcrof wrote:
              simonsez wrote:
              Can we just put the traps on any other color besides red? Given her purple, it makes no sense to use the same color that the two spammiest strike tile generators are using.

              would be easier to make it an actual attack tile, that could not be overwritten
              Easier for all the special tile stealers to steal them. Not to mention her traps can dip into any strike tiles bonus damage one extra time in addition to any ants or flame jet CD (possibly others I'm forgetting) or attack tile you might have.
            • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
              I think if you take current Elektra and dropped it to 5 purple you are golden. Her strike tiles aren't worth 14 AP, BP can do better and his costs 9.

              Black I think needs a tad more damage or 1 more AP less, but it's the skill in the best shape right now.

              Red. Either have the tile go random or better yet, more damage but split over 3 tiles at max rank

              She's oh so close, even purple at 6 would do wonders, 7/14 is too much
            • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,177 Chairperson of the Boards
              Phaserhawk wrote:
              I think if you take current Elektra and dropped it to 5 purple you are golden. Her strike tiles aren't worth 14 AP, BP can do better and his costs 9.

              Black I think needs a tad more damage or 1 more AP less, but it's the skill in the best shape right now.

              Red. Either have the tile go random or better yet, more damage but split over 3 tiles at max rank

              She's oh so close, even purple at 6 would do wonders, 7/14 is too much

              Maybe you should create a post about Elektra. I heard you have powers that change the game. icon_lol.gif
            • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
              Phaserhawk wrote:
              I think if you take current Elektra and dropped it to 5 purple you are golden. Her strike tiles aren't worth 14 AP, BP can do better and his costs 9.

              Black I think needs a tad more damage or 1 more AP less, but it's the skill in the best shape right now.

              Red. Either have the tile go random or better yet, more damage but split over 3 tiles at max rank

              She's oh so close, even purple at 6 would do wonders, 7/14 is too much

              Maybe you should create a post about Elektra. I heard you have powers that change the game. icon_lol.gif

              Only to fix bugs, unfortunately Elektra is working as intended.
            • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
              Phaserhawk wrote:
              Phaserhawk wrote:
              I think if you take current Elektra and dropped it to 5 purple you are golden. Her strike tiles aren't worth 14 AP, BP can do better and his costs 9.

              Black I think needs a tad more damage or 1 more AP less, but it's the skill in the best shape right now.

              Red. Either have the tile go random or better yet, more damage but split over 3 tiles at max rank

              She's oh so close, even purple at 6 would do wonders, 7/14 is too much

              Maybe you should create a post about Elektra. I heard you have powers that change the game. icon_lol.gif

              Only to fix bugs, unfortunately Elektra is working as intended.

              ants are bugs, don't you go near him...
            • All Elektra needs is for DDX to make a strike.png from no where if none exist on the enemy side. 7 AP for "give the enemy 3 strength 12 strike tiles" is a STUPID power. Cmon, guys, really? That's how she double crosses the double cross? By providing no solid intel on the first atempt? No.

              Instead, just add in "if no enemy strike tiles exists, creates a strength X friendly strike tile" where X = the amount she boosts the stolen enemy tiles by. So at 5 covers, it would be 245x2 = 490. A power that costs 7 and gives a 490 strike tile with a possible 771 in strike tiles being set up if the power is used again with a trap on the board? Yes please.
            • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,205 Chairperson of the Boards
              Lerysh wrote:
              All Elektra needs is for DDX to make a strike.png from no where if none exist on the enemy side. 7 AP for "give the enemy 3 strength 12 strike tiles" is a STUPID power. Cmon, guys, really? That's how she double crosses the double cross? By providing no solid intel on the first atempt? No.

              Instead, just add in "if no enemy strike tiles exists, creates a strength X friendly strike tile" where X = the amount she boosts the stolen enemy tiles by. So at 5 covers, it would be 245x2 = 490. A power that costs 7 and gives a 490 strike tile with a possible 771 in strike tiles being set up if the power is used again with a trap on the board? Yes please.


              Does she create an enemy strike tile and then steal it on the first cast? that seems kinda silly (since it effectively is just spawning a strike tile).

              I think I prefer dkffiv's more radical, but also more elegant solution (and we know that the mechanic does work because psylocke and quicksilver both use it).

              In either case however, I encourage some tweaking for elektra and star-lord. They just aren't good enough for the new 4* meta, despite the fact they are both interestingly designed characters. I think they were just built at a time when demiurge was gun-shy after over-powering Xforce and 4* thor. So Star-lord and elektra are both too conservative.

              The sad thing is that elektra was already revisited but not really fixed at all. (the problem with her purple was the fact that 7 ap got you nothing most of the time, not that it didn't boost stolen strike tiles enough!).
            • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,032 Chairperson of the Boards
              Lerysh wrote:
              All Elektra needs is for DDX to make a strike.png from no where if none exist on the enemy side. 7 AP for "give the enemy 3 strength 12 strike tiles" is a STUPID power. Cmon, guys, really? That's how she double crosses the double cross? By providing no solid intel on the first atempt? No.

              Instead, just add in "if no enemy strike tiles exists, creates a strength X friendly strike tile" where X = the amount she boosts the stolen enemy tiles by. So at 5 covers, it would be 245x2 = 490. A power that costs 7 and gives a 490 strike tile with a possible 771 in strike tiles being set up if the power is used again with a trap on the board? Yes please.

              The theme of the ability is to steal and improve strike tiles, not just create awesome ones out of nowhere. My solution makes it usable on an empty board, yet still powerful and balanced against characters who flood the board.
              Phaserhawk wrote:
              I think if you take current Elektra and dropped it to 5 purple you are golden. Her strike tiles aren't worth 14 AP, BP can do better and his costs 9.

              Black I think needs a tad more damage or 1 more AP less, but it's the skill in the best shape right now.

              Red. Either have the tile go random or better yet, more damage but split over 3 tiles at max rank

              She's oh so close, even purple at 6 would do wonders, 7/14 is too much

              12 AP to create mediocre tiles is still too slow, 5 AP to steal 3 at a time is probably too powerful. I think the variable cost is the best solution, though arguably very strong against people who create 1 or 2 super strength tiles (Sentry + Hulkbuster come to mind).
            • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,205 Chairperson of the Boards
              Another very simple alternative would be let her steal any type of special tile. as is, she is quite powerful against enemies that make strikes, but very weak against enemies that don't. At least if she could steal other types of specials, she would be useful more often.
            • A long while ago the devs stated that there would be no ability that has a cost lower than 5. This was around the time just before the prenerf spiderman and classic magento had very low AP costs
            • LuciferianXLuciferianX Age Unconfirmed Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
              Vhailorx wrote:
              Another very simple alternative would be let her steal any type of special tile. as is, she is quite powerful against enemies that make strikes, but very weak against enemies that don't. At least if she could steal other types of specials, she would be useful more often.

              Sorry, apologies, insert horn tooting. This is what I proposed previously, that what she needs is to 'be Legendary' and convert any of your things into her things. ie, at 5 levels, steal your countdown tile and make it a strike tile. Not the old 'flip it and own it' mechanic, just straight up 'hey, your stuff, thanks!'

              And can we PLEASE remove the 'if there's nothing on the board, you deploy strike tiles for the enemy because that's a brilliant idea' mechanic? Because it isn't. Brilliant. At all.
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