*** Vision (Android Avenger) ***

GMadMan040

Vision is, by far, the worst character in the game...when the AI is using him. In a PVP event, I love seeing teams who have or users on the squad, because they gonna die real quick with Vision sitting there firing Heavy and Light all day. He completely neutered BP and Thor in one of my recent fights. He does get annoying when teamed with KK in that circumstance because she is constantly healing as he is constantly firing, but that's easy enough to get around.

I can actually see how he might have some usefulness on offense if he is out front most of the time, because the only way to take advantage of his skills is to have him giving and taking the bulk of the damage. Otherwise, pass. I only rostered him because I wanted to get my full dose of DDQ ISO, but when I need that spot for a better character, he's out.

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

to people who still think vision sucks....you haven't touched him, and i suggest you do so in made man PVP. Unholy Shuma Gorath.

gotta elaborate a little more as to why because I look at him and think his red is overpriced for what it does considering to use light disruption/heavy strike you're actually paying 15 ap for the effect.

He feels like he's supposed to be a jack of trades character with the red however with it being 10 cost I feel like he is too slow to do this unless they bring it down to 8 or at least 9 cost. Also it kinda annoys me he can't aim the base ability solar beam since he's firing it from the gem on his head, i'm pretty sure he can control it and its not wildly firing from his skull like some unstable death beam.

i elaborated in my stream, in the vision PVP thread, in the vision character thread as did others

MarcusGraves

raisinbman wrote:

i elaborated in my stream, in the vision PVP thread, in the vision character thread as did others

I mean if you wanted me to actually quote you on this then even you said w/o the help of KK/PX he is pretty garbage and I don't count the glitch abuse with his blue + attack tiles since that is an oversight that they may attempt to try and fix again since it was supposed to be fixed.

sooooooo that still necessarily doesn't make him good and the character has glaring problems

Buret0

MarcusGraves wrote:

gotta elaborate a little more as to why because I look at him and think his red is overpriced for what it does considering to use light disruption/heavy strike you're actually paying 15 ap for the effect.

He feels like he's supposed to be a jack of trades character with the red however with it being 10 cost I feel like he is too slow to do this unless they bring it down to 8 or at least 9 cost. Also it kinda annoys me he can't aim the base ability solar beam since he's firing it from the gem on his head, i'm pretty sure he can control it and its not wildly firing from his skull like some unstable death beam.

Even without making use of the attack tile boost, I'm still getting a ton of use out of Vision.

For 5 Blue AP he is adding 1,000 damage to every blue/red/yellow/TU match. In the time that the CD tile is present, I will average 4 to 7 matches (depending on how the cascades fall), meaning that even if I don't fire off his Red, I'm getting on average on extra 5,500+ damage out of 5 blue AP. That's boosted Full Blast level damage per AP even without adding in his Red AoE or his Attack tile boost.

You can't leave him until the end or he's going to make you bleed when he's tanking every color.

And he combos with a lot of people because most of the best characters in the game aren't using active blue. I've been using him with 4Pool and SW to great effect. I can use 4Pool's Red AoE if I want to do 12,000 damage or I can do 7,500 damage and true heal 4Pool for a little more AP. SW is ensuring that I'm able to keep the enemy's strongest color always full of CD tiles.

When the other team has a non-loaner Vision, 4Pool's CD4W puts the tiles out on blue, otherwise I'm facing a ton of 3* Mags (blue) and 3* KKs (yellow)... both of which are Vision tank colors. So Vision can make a single match that deals 1,400 damage plus 1,500 per CD tile. 5,900 is a pretty respectable amount of damage for a match 3.

jimstarooney

raisinbman wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

to people who still think vision sucks....you haven't touched him, and i suggest you do so in made man PVP. Unholy Shuma Gorath.

gotta elaborate a little more as to why because I look at him and think his red is overpriced for what it does considering to use light disruption/heavy strike you're actually paying 15 ap for the effect.

He feels like he's supposed to be a jack of trades character with the red however with it being 10 cost I feel like he is too slow to do this unless they bring it down to 8 or at least 9 cost. Also it kinda annoys me he can't aim the base ability solar beam since he's firing it from the gem on his head, i'm pretty sure he can control it and its not wildly firing from his skull like some unstable death beam.

i elaborated in my stream, in the vision PVP thread, in the vision character thread as did others

i agree raisin,vision is not as bad as people make him out to be.buffed he is awesome.im a big fan of kk in mpq though so any1 that goes with her is awesome in my eyes.

cyineedsn

He's only fun atm because he's buffed. But on any week where he's not buffed, you'd be crazy to use him in pvp because
a) he goes well with kk on offense to save health packs. Of course, you'll also spend 10 minutes a match watching animations
b) he's awful on defense and just about everyone will swarm you

You absolutely can leave him for last to take out. Sure, every now and then you'll leave him for last and he'll get out his blue and bite you. That same problem happens if you leave Gamora for last and she floods the board with strike tiles.

But when was the last time someone said to themselves, "oh no Gamora/Vision, I better take him/her out first instead of hood/loki/if/thor/kk/bp/hulkbuster/pretty much every other character that is considered good"

Buret0

cyineedsn wrote:

He's only fun atm because he's buffed. But on any week where he's not buffed, you'd be crazy to use him in pvp because
a) he goes well with kk on offense to save health packs. Of course, you'll also spend 10 minutes a match watching animations
b) he's awful on defense and just about everyone will swarm you

You absolutely can leave him for last to take out. Sure, every now and then you'll leave him for last and he'll get out his blue and bite you. That same problem happens if you leave Gamora for last and she floods the board with strike tiles.

But when was the last time someone said to themselves, "oh no Gamora/Vision, I better take him/her out first instead of hood/loki/if/thor/kk/bp/hulkbuster/pretty much every other character that is considered good"

I keep Gamora at 0/5/5 so that she doesn't waste green AP. For that same reason I keep Vision at 5/5/0 so that he keeps the blue tile out. It is your choice to leave Vision as last to kill, but he will certainly make you pay for it when he's boosted.

Buret0 wrote:

mjh wrote:

The only question is, is the worst 3* or does that title still belong to ?

God no. Vision's 5 cover blue can do an insane amount of damage.

He's on the list of "will never use unless..." but he's not on my list of "I'll never use, even if boosted."

He needs to be boosted (or up against other non-boosted, like in Shield Sim) and he needs to be in the middle. That means that he's only useful in post-season PvP, Made Man, Shield Sim, and when he's boosted in PvE.

Despite that, he's supremely useful in those limited circumstances.

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

i elaborated in my stream, in the vision PVP thread, in the vision character thread as did others

I mean if you wanted me to actually quote you on this then even you said w/o the help of KK/PX he is pretty garbage and I don't count the glitch abuse with his blue + attack tiles since that is an oversight that they may attempt to try and fix again since it was supposed to be fixed.

sooooooo that still necessarily doesn't make him good and the character has glaring problems

so you ignore his current state and say he's bad? whatevs

you prob think daredevil is bad even tho we have cyclops now

BTW I can't present to you "evidence" if you're gonna choose to ignore it. Glad I didn't actually write anything out

cyineedsn

Buret0 wrote:

I keep Gamora at 0/5/5 so that she doesn't waste green AP. For that same reason I keep Vision at 5/5/0 so that he keeps the blue tile out. It is your choice to leave Vision as last to kill, but he will certainly make you pay for it when he's boosted.

Oh, I totally agree that he can make you pay for it when boosted. It's just in a pvp where BP, cmags, and KK are all boosted too, I mean....does it make sense to prioritize taking out vision first over any of those 3?

MarcusGraves

raisinbman wrote:

so you ignore his current state and say he's bad? whatevs

you prob think daredevil is bad even tho we have cyclops now

BTW I can't present to you "evidence" if you're gonna choose to ignore it. Glad I didn't actually write anything out

dude you're basically saying to me that he doesn't need any buffs because he can function in that one team comp with KK/PX or just abuse his blue tile glitch and really this a good character does not make. That's like me saying I think quicksilver isn't trash because I can pair him with rags and use rag's thunderclap to get blue matches going for supersonic and using godlike power for more team damage, does this work? yeah it does and its pretty damn funny, but that doesn't make either of these characters actually good.

to say I'm ignoring his current state is weird because I've stated what some of his problems are and he is the #1 most unseen character in the game for me as well, I actually see QS more than vision which is just funny. You really can't sit there and tell me he doesn't need any kind of fixing, if he was actually a well designed character with minimal flaws we would be seeing him more frequently used other than him being a PvE essential/boosted but we aren't so there must be a reason other than "well people just don't understand him".

also don't toss out assumptions because they'll come back and bite you in the butt; DD is actually a good character because he has a strong refreshing stun that can stack and even refund some blue when matched, a still very hard hitting red on either team matching it, his least used move purple can get rid of some annoying special tiles and he does not rely on chaining moves together for them to be functional.

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so you ignore his current state and say he's bad? whatevs

you prob think daredevil is bad even tho we have cyclops now

BTW I can't present to you "evidence" if you're gonna choose to ignore it. Glad I didn't actually write anything out

dude you're basically saying to me that he doesn't need any buffs because he can function in that one team comp with KK/PX or just abuse his blue tile glitch and really this a good character does not make. That's like me saying I think quicksilver isn't trash because I can pair him with rags and use rag's thunderclap to get blue matches going for supersonic and using godlike power for more team damage, does this work? yeah it does and its pretty damn funny, but that doesn't make either of these characters actually good.

to say I'm ignoring his current state is weird because I've stated what some of his problems are and he is the #1 most unseen character in the game for me as well, I actually see QS more than vision which is just funny. You really can't sit there and tell me he doesn't need any kind of fixing, if he was actually a well designed character with minimal flaws we would be seeing him more frequently used other than him being a PvE essential/boosted but we aren't so there must be a reason other than "well people just don't understand him".

also don't toss out assumptions because they'll come back and bite you in the butt; DD is actually a good character because he has a strong refreshing stun that can stack and even refund some blue when matched, a still very hard hitting red on either team matching it, his least used move purple can get rid of some annoying special tiles and he does not rely on chaining moves together for them to be functional.

who said he doesn't need any buffs?

If you're ignoring his current state, sound the clarion call for phaserhawk and don't return till he's "fixed"

the public's knowledge isn't that of the master - after all beast is in a good spot yet the public won't touch him because of stigma.

Go look at the last character poll to see where the public is wrong vs the reality we live in.

quicksilver isn't trash, has a place on best team in the game

didn't say daredevil was bad

Buret0

cyineedsn wrote:

Oh, I totally agree that he can make you pay for it when boosted. It's just in a pvp where BP, cmags, and KK are all boosted too, I mean....does it make sense to prioritize taking out vision first over any of those 3?

I've been using 4Pool, SW, and Vision lately. I would take out KK, Vision, BP (unless BP was very close to an AoE after taking out KK). BP's Blue and Yellow are a joke and without a battery I find it is easy to prevent him from landing a Rage. Since 4Pool is dropping a new set of CD tiles every 3 or 4 turns, basic match damage is going to kill everyone before Rage can hit in the AI's hands. Plus BP and Vision are fighting over Blue and Yellow anyway, which is essentially going to mean that Vision is tanking everything but Black, so he needs to die ASAP.

KK's green is also expensive, but with SW producing all of that purple, there's bound to be spillover into her battery. Plus she's healing on all those cheap ability activations on Vision, so she needs to go first. Then Vision. Then BP. Unless BP got 9 black AP before KK died.

cyineedsn

Buret0 wrote:

I've been using 4Pool, SW, and Vision lately. I would take out KK, Vision, BP (unless BP was very close to an AoE after taking out KK). BP's Blue and Yellow are a joke and without a battery I find it is easy to prevent him from landing a Rage. Since 4Pool is dropping a new set of CD tiles every 3 or 4 turns, basic match damage is going to kill everyone before Rage can hit in the AI's hands. Plus BP and Vision are fighting over Blue and Yellow anyway, which is essentially going to mean that Vision is tanking everything but Black, so he needs to die ASAP.

KK's green is also expensive, but with SW producing all of that purple, there's bound to be spillover into her battery. Plus she's healing on all those cheap ability activations on Vision, so she needs to go first. Then Vision. Then BP. Unless BP got 9 black AP before KK died.

I am much more afraid of the AI black panther getting a lucky cascade and getting off either 750-1k in strike tiles out, or a 5k+ rage out. In contrast, vision is just as likely to stumble over himself tossing out his yellow as he is hurting you with his blue. Unless you are fighting someone with a 5/5/0 vision, in which case he's under-leveled and can be steamrolled anyway, lol.

But, I can see your logic, at this point its just a matter of picking (potential) poisons so I guess we have to agree to disagree.

wymtime

cyineedsn wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

I've been using 4Pool, SW, and Vision lately. I would take out KK, Vision, BP (unless BP was very close to an AoE after taking out KK). BP's Blue and Yellow are a joke and without a battery I find it is easy to prevent him from landing a Rage. Since 4Pool is dropping a new set of CD tiles every 3 or 4 turns, basic match damage is going to kill everyone before Rage can hit in the AI's hands. Plus BP and Vision are fighting over Blue and Yellow anyway, which is essentially going to mean that Vision is tanking everything but Black, so he needs to die ASAP.

KK's green is also expensive, but with SW producing all of that purple, there's bound to be spillover into her battery. Plus she's healing on all those cheap ability activations on Vision, so she needs to go first. Then Vision. Then BP. Unless BP got 9 black AP before KK died.

I am much more afraid of the AI black panther getting a lucky cascade and getting off either 750-1k in strike tiles out, or a 5k+ rage out. In contrast, vision is just as likely to stumble over himself tossing out his yellow as he is hurting you with his blue. Unless you are fighting someone with a 5/5/0 vision, in which case he's under-leveled and can be steamrolled anyway, lol.

But, I can see your logic, at this point its just a matter of picking (potential) poisons so I guess we have to agree to disagree.

One team I was very surprised with was Vision KK, IF. I fired visions blue as fast as possible and watched he enemy get whittled down to nothing. I didn't like BP as much becuase he would give the other team 5 AP after Rage of the panther and the AI would get a power off. After this event I will actually use vision more than I thought I would. Once you figure out how to use him he can be really dangerous.

MarcusGraves

wymtime wrote:

One team I was very surprised with was Vision KK, IF. I fired visions blue as fast as possible and watched he enemy get whittled down to nothing. I didn't like BP as much becuase he would give the other team 5 AP after Rage of the panther and the AI would get a power off. After this event I will actually use vision more than I thought I would. Once you figure out how to use him he can be really dangerous.

the question really is how long will this bug get to last?

mgallop

raisinbman wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so you ignore his current state and say he's bad? whatevs

you prob think daredevil is bad even tho we have cyclops now

BTW I can't present to you "evidence" if you're gonna choose to ignore it. Glad I didn't actually write anything out

dude you're basically saying to me that he doesn't need any buffs because he can function in that one team comp with KK/PX or just abuse his blue tile glitch and really this a good character does not make. That's like me saying I think quicksilver isn't trash because I can pair him with rags and use rag's thunderclap to get blue matches going for supersonic and using godlike power for more team damage, does this work? yeah it does and its pretty damn funny, but that doesn't make either of these characters actually good.

to say I'm ignoring his current state is weird because I've stated what some of his problems are and he is the #1 most unseen character in the game for me as well, I actually see QS more than vision which is just funny. You really can't sit there and tell me he doesn't need any kind of fixing, if he was actually a well designed character with minimal flaws we would be seeing him more frequently used other than him being a PvE essential/boosted but we aren't so there must be a reason other than "well people just don't understand him".

also don't toss out assumptions because they'll come back and bite you in the butt; DD is actually a good character because he has a strong refreshing stun that can stack and even refund some blue when matched, a still very hard hitting red on either team matching it, his least used move purple can get rid of some annoying special tiles and he does not rely on chaining moves together for them to be functional.

who said he doesn't need any buffs?

If you're ignoring his current state, sound the clarion call for phaserhawk and don't return till he's "fixed"

the public's knowledge isn't that of the master - after all beast is in a good spot yet the public won't touch him because of stigma.

Go look at the last character poll to see where the public is wrong vs the reality we live in.

quicksilver isn't trash, has a place on best team in the game

didn't say daredevil was bad

I think there are two arguments going on right here. First is vision currently good: and I think raisin is right that, while boosted, vision + IF is pretty great, if only because 5 blue AP for 5000+ damage is nice, and his red can also do some work (I don't know, I have an undercovered red and ran HB with the team). The other implied question is whether vision is worth investing resources into, this is a. Ore fraught question because a) he's garbage on D, b) his blue only works with strike tiles if he's in the middle, which means Made-Man or Sim, c) theres a nontrivial chance his blue gets Phaserhawked.

As a side note, I don't know if IF/QS/PX is the best team in the game, I'm pretty sure the team needs two QSs to make black cheap enough to go off with, and I did not see a single team running it from 0-1300 in the IF PvP.

Unknown

mgallop wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so you ignore his current state and say he's bad? whatevs

you prob think daredevil is bad even tho we have cyclops now

BTW I can't present to you "evidence" if you're gonna choose to ignore it. Glad I didn't actually write anything out

dude you're basically saying to me that he doesn't need any buffs because he can function in that one team comp with KK/PX or just abuse his blue tile glitch and really this a good character does not make. That's like me saying I think quicksilver isn't trash because I can pair him with rags and use rag's thunderclap to get blue matches going for supersonic and using godlike power for more team damage, does this work? yeah it does and its pretty damn funny, but that doesn't make either of these characters actually good.

to say I'm ignoring his current state is weird because I've stated what some of his problems are and he is the #1 most unseen character in the game for me as well, I actually see QS more than vision which is just funny. You really can't sit there and tell me he doesn't need any kind of fixing, if he was actually a well designed character with minimal flaws we would be seeing him more frequently used other than him being a PvE essential/boosted but we aren't so there must be a reason other than "well people just don't understand him".

also don't toss out assumptions because they'll come back and bite you in the butt; DD is actually a good character because he has a strong refreshing stun that can stack and even refund some blue when matched, a still very hard hitting red on either team matching it, his least used move purple can get rid of some annoying special tiles and he does not rely on chaining moves together for them to be functional.

who said he doesn't need any buffs?

If you're ignoring his current state, sound the clarion call for phaserhawk and don't return till he's "fixed"

the public's knowledge isn't that of the master - after all beast is in a good spot yet the public won't touch him because of stigma.

Go look at the last character poll to see where the public is wrong vs the reality we live in.

quicksilver isn't trash, has a place on best team in the game

didn't say daredevil was bad

I think there are two arguments going on right here. First is vision currently good: and I think raisin is right that, while boosted, vision + IF is pretty great, if only because 5 blue AP for 5000+ damage is nice, and his red can also do some work (I don't know, I have an undercovered red and ran HB with the team). The other implied question is whether vision is worth investing resources into, this is a. Ore fraught question because a) he's garbage on D, b) his blue only works with strike tiles if he's in the middle, which means Made-Man or Sim, c) theres a nontrivial chance his blue gets Phaserhawked.

As a side note, I don't know if IF/QS/PX is the best team in the game, I'm pretty sure the team needs two QSs to make black cheap enough to go off with, and I did not see a single team running it from 0-1300 in the IF PvP.

I don't have a maxed vision but a pretty high one.....And I know its controversial but I'll say his red is fine since his blue is absolutely bonkers

also really enjoyed the bolded term

as to the best team in the game, I dunno. One of the most seasoned players said it was, no one disagreed, and it's months later. Since this forum loves credentials so much I just go with whatever they say cuz I obviously don't have a ProfX/QS combo ready

simonsez

raisinbman wrote:

as to the best team in the game, I dunno. One of the most seasoned players said it was, no one disagreed, and it's months later.

He didn't say it was the best, he said you could infinite loop with it. And people did disagree with that, but you have them all on ignore.

Buret0

Vision is most certainly going to be patched coming up.

I'm not sure if they will address the IF/Attack tile boost, but they will certainly patch his other "plain as day" bug in the bug forum.

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

Vision is most certainly going to be patched coming up.

I'm not sure if they will address the IF/Attack tile boost, but they will certainly patch his other "plain as day" bug in the bug forum.

but phaserhawk said no more nerfs