*** Vision (Android Avenger) ***

dkffiv

raisinbman wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

We should probably switch this over to the Vision thread but Vision and Antman are completely different. You need to view Vision as a cheap AP dump and consider his stances as purely a bonus. His color layout ends up being amazing, partner him with:

Carnage: Overlap on red but Carnage's is cheaper so it has a better chance of going off, covers 4/6. 5 AP to **** out attack tiles that can do devastating damage if Vision is the last man standing and winds up in blue stance.

KK: No color overlap (covers 5/6) and his stance dancing can be used to cheaply trigger heals. (KK will tank yellow over him though)

PX: No color overlap (covers 4/6) and stance dancing triggers special tiles. (PX tanks yellow and blue)

IF: No color overlap (covers 5/6) and his blue is guaranteed to amplify IF's attack tile (and if the tile isn't accessible after IF dies that adds up to a ton of damage).

He's like Colossus/Elektra/Hulk, he's **** enough that you don't rush to down him first but if he ends up being the last one alive he can do a lot of damage.

Squirrel Girl isn't ****, Doc Ock is inconclusive(no one answered me in his thread about carnage), Pietro has a place on strongest team in game

if u say so about vision I've seen 0 talk about him you're the only one thank you for explaining why u think he's good

so you say stance dance, do u just activate his abilities to activate other ppl's passive? or actually use the stances?

A lot of times triggering someone else's passive is a lot more useful than him being in a specific stance. For instance with Kamala I would consider storing up AP and then maybe double casting yellow if someone took a big crit and lost their burst heal shield. With PX I'll sometimes cast yellow and then immediately switch to blue just to get more special tiles out if I need them. The nice thing with PX is that with PX invisible, an ability cast with Vision will bring him up front so his yellow can be used if my protect tiles aren't that strong yet. For instance, third partner does match damage and brings himself out front (usually the green/black user). A Vision yellow cast brings him out and he'll stay out front as long as the third character doesn't use an ability and I don't match green or black. Really useful when the enemy has strike tiles or against the Turn to Smoke ninjas before I get the pain train rolling.

The only exception is if I'm close to having enough red for his Heavy Strike I'll save up blue so that I can definitely combo it.

SnagglePuss

Was looking for someone to pair with Carnage/KK, someone with cheap spammy powers that doesn't clash too much. Decided on Vision with 5 blue to annoy people with. Even in light stance he's takes little damage to hopefully be last man standing with X number of attack tiles. Yes he's played terribly by the AI, often dancing twice a turn but that just adds to the chaos.

Turbosmooth

I agree he needs a buff. I only have him for essentials. His heavy should increase everyone's attack or make his damage 42% higher across the board. He hits really weak. Compare to KK or Cyclops and he's nothing.

Billigoat

Anyone know if his blue procs strike tiles a second time? (kind of like black widow's black?)

Hitting all the strike tiles twice, plus the added blue damage would be pretty crazy with some teams.

If it doesn't currently, that might be an easy/interesting change to make to his yellow if they want to make that ability relevant.

dkffiv

Turbosmooth wrote:

I agree he needs a buff. I only have him for essentials. His heavy should increase everyone's attack or make his damage 42% higher across the board. He hits really weak. Compare to KK or Cyclops and he's nothing.

With the current "bug" affecting Bullseye and Vision, he is part of my strongest PvE team. If that ever gets fixed I think he might need a minor buff but as is he is very very powerful.

Billigoat wrote:

Anyone know if his blue procs strike tiles a second time? (kind of like black widow's black?)

Hitting all the strike tiles twice, plus the added blue damage would be pretty crazy with some teams.

If it doesn't currently, that might be an easy/interesting change to make to his yellow if they want to make that ability relevant.

Blue is basically a strike tile that only works on damage he "owns." No double dipping.

simonsez

dkffiv wrote:

With the current "bug" affecting Bullseye and Vision

Explain please? PM would be fine, thanks.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

With the current "bug" affecting Bullseye and Vision

Explain please? PM would be fine, thanks.

He's referring to how IF's attack tile and Bullseyes passive trigger when they didn't do the dmg, however don't think it's a bug. The primary character owns the board, so if vision or bullseye are centered and dmg after turn occurs, the game doesn't look to who put what on the board, it looks at, who is primary character which is why vision can double dip that attack tile or Bullseye triggers passive. If you go in simulator and run vision/IF/bullseye. Depending on whose in the 1,2, or 3 position changes the mechanics on who gets what, so not a bug, the board considers all dmg done after turn or attack tiles to be from the primary character. This actually adds stategey to the game since you may have to make Bullseye primary to get this to work but he could tank more colors and take more dmg so it's risk/reward

Btw im testing with bullseye 1, vision 2 IF 3 if bullseye gets stunned while attack tile goes off, the bonus dmg should occur because priority of board falls to 2nd but the AI hasn't helped me confirm this. If true it would pretty much solidify that working as intended which I'm all but certain it is

Billigoat

Phaserhawk wrote:

He's referring to how IF's attack tile and Bullseyes passive trigger when they didn't do the dmg, however don't think it's a bug. The primary character owns the board, so if vision or bullseye are centered and dmg after turn occurs, the game doesn't look to who put what on the board, it looks at, who is primary character which is why vision can double dip that attack tile or Bullseye triggers passive.

This makes sense. When IF is downed, his attack tile doesn't go away, so it belongs to the team. An example of an attack tile that does disappear when the character is downed would be Human Torch's green. It's not exactly an attack tile, but it does do extra damage every turn, no matter who is in front. It would be interesting to see if Vision and Bulleyes abilities trigger on that one, because that'd probably be a bug.

dkffiv wrote:

Blue is basically a strike tile that only works on damage he "owns." No double dipping.

That's unfortunate. 2*BlackWidow is such a fun character to play for her ability to double-dip strike tiles. No one really does that in 3* land. Although now that I know that Vision's blue triggers on attack tiles, that would really be quadruple dipping. lol... maybe that'd be too much.

dkffiv

R81 Steam/Android Vision's blue still modifies attack tiles, hopefully it was some obscure strike tile bug they fixed. Been using Vision on easy nodes now because I think he might be the fastest character to clear those (in addition to his PX funtime hard node combo)

Unknown

What if blue and yellow didn't cancelled each other, but instead summed it up? I know it makes no sense in being heavy and light at same time but being able to use both and even trigger red for both effects (or even all three, why not) could make it a good combo even at the cost of 20 ap.

dkffiv

ShionSinX wrote:

What if blue and yellow didn't cancelled each other, but instead summed it up? I know it makes no sense in being heavy and light at same time but being able to use both and even trigger red for both effects (or even all three, why not) could make it a good combo even at the cost of 20 ap.

Even in his current form I like him quite a bit but his yellow is useless most of the time. I wouldn't mind seeing something of an echo attack while in yellow stance. Retains its current damage reduction bonus but in addition, whenever Vision deals damage, it echoes dealing 10/20/35/55/100% damage a second time (second bonus attack like Espionage that would trigger on match damage, attack tiles or his red ability and gain strike tile damage). His yellow/red combo damage would need to be reduced to compensate.

Unknown

hm no poll for this character

MarcusGraves

I feel like his red is incredibly overpriced for what it does and the set ups it requires, I'd like to see it go down to 8 cost and his other main problem is the way he is designed makes it so he doesn't really play well with any other characters. Both his blue and yellow should allow you to place the CD tile wherever you want as well because it is so important for his character.

Buret0

raisinbman wrote:

hm no poll for this character

5/5/0

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

hm no poll for this character

5/5/0

I counter with 5/5/3 so I can stance dance

mjh

The only question is, is the worst 3* or does that title still belong to ?

Unknown

mjh wrote:

The only question is, is the worst 3* or does that title still belong to ?

vision not worst need a cheap blue user need a stance dancer?

quicksilver is on best team in game

Buret0

mjh wrote:

The only question is, is the worst 3* or does that title still belong to ?

God no. Vision's 5 cover blue can do an insane amount of damage.

He's on the list of "will never use unless..." but he's not on my list of "I'll never use, even if boosted."

He needs to be boosted (or up against other non-boosted, like in Shield Sim) and he needs to be in the middle. That means that he's only useful in post-season PvP, Made Man, Shield Sim, and when he's boosted in PvE.

Despite that, he's supremely useful in those limited circumstances.

Unknown

to people who still think vision sucks....you haven't touched him, and i suggest you do so in made man PVP. Unholy Shuma Gorath.

MarcusGraves

raisinbman wrote:

to people who still think vision sucks....you haven't touched him, and i suggest you do so in made man PVP. Unholy Shuma Gorath.

gotta elaborate a little more as to why because I look at him and think his red is overpriced for what it does considering to use light disruption/heavy strike you're actually paying 15 ap for the effect.

He feels like he's supposed to be a jack of trades character with the red however with it being 10 cost I feel like he is too slow to do this unless they bring it down to 8 or at least 9 cost. Also it kinda annoys me he can't aim the base ability solar beam since he's firing it from the gem on his head, i'm pretty sure he can control it and its not wildly firing from his skull like some unstable death beam.