Season XIII Matchmaking - Discussion

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  • xequalsy
    xequalsy Posts: 231
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    Name: xequalsy
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 2
    Roster: 2x 166 3* (Hood, R&G), a few more near max/max covered 3* sitting at 100, and the rest all at 94
    Usual PvP Placement: Top100, never Top25, but usually never out of Top100 either

    Experience:
    The first 100 points were a massive slog through max 166 (some also had max IM) teams with the odd XF (but since I'm climbing late into the event, I shouldn't be seeing too many down at 100ish points). But up to 300 (where I've stopped for now since I'm out of health packs) were much easier. I started seeing some teams with a level 94 max 2* (plus the 166), or just under levelled 3*s who are also not max covered (e.g. ~120).
  • Unfortunately none of the pvp survey choices fit me. I would answer the matchmaking system is not working at all, at least in my case. My front page of my roster I think is two heroes in the 140s, a bunch in the 130s and 121s at the end (2nd page is 121 down to 102 I think; I have alot of heroes, but I level them pretty evenly). When I opened the shield tourney for the season I Already had one group that was all 166s, and most had a 166 at least. For heavy metal, I had the initial 3 easy groups, and then after that, same as the shield tourney :/. I ended up at about around 100pts first go. Fortunately when I signed in today someone gave me 31 points, so I started at 134. I rotate one group, and get two 200s... Really?!? So I decided to fight the lowest group for 25 pts that had a 153 hood, a 94 magneto, and the ironman had unibeam and recharge (can't remember level, but it was decent level recharge that kept feeding magneto). After the fight was done, one of my 140s hero is down, and my decent ironman (he is around 128 I think unbuffed, 13 cards) has 100 something health left. One fight and I am done, unless I use a health pack. So I am at 160ish points now, when I can usually make the run from 100 to 200 my second go in a tourney - especially when I have the buffed hero. I don't know How I am going to get my usual 300-400 pts, and the shield tourney is a joke to make up points to get to the 4000 10-heroic pack I have gotten every season so far. I shouldn't be fighting 1 stars anymore with my roster or all 2 star groups, I agree with that, but I certainly should not be only seeing groups with at least 1 150 to 166 ++ in them icon_e_sad.gif.
  • Name: Fallensito
    Roster: 166 magneto, 153 hulk, 153 torch, 132 patch, 143 iron man, 140 loki and a lot of 3s in need of covers
    So im a transitioner and i feel this matchmaking change has done me a great favor yeah sure before i could go climbing up in ranks destroying some bunch of 2 star rosters until 400, 450, 500 but i really feel that the matchmaking is RIGHT why? because now im facing oponents at my level, im facing 166 teams, (in rare ocasions) but mostly 140 150 130 lvl 3 stars and in rare ocasions 2 stars wich i feel is FAIR for what my roster composition can handle, yeah im suffering going up in the matches haven't reach the 500 (where the wall was) have to see if the wall is still standing if it is it, then i guess they're doing something wrong here, the problem i feel its not the matchmaking ITS the reward system, fights now take too long, fights requires more effort now to get into 400 500 600 points so rewards SHOULD decrease why not make the 4 cover reached at 800 points? it would still take effort to get there but it would be fair enough for people with a veteran roster, for me the matchmaking its not the problem its adressing and helping a lot the transitioners like me or 2 stars from what i've heard from my friends still requires help but more than that what needs to be adressed ASAP to help veterans and transitioners alike ITS the reward scaling system making it smaller because diffculty IS ALRIGHT now and people will get less points from now on because of that so the reward scaling systems needs a revamp in order to fit with this new matchmaking, i like the idea and I hope it gets some care in order to make it right.
  • Still no word if this is final or not. If they would just give me the nod I could either push for season standings or just drop out of my alli and forget about the game. As it stands im stuck in limbo wasting the first pvp of the season.


    Edit: I don't want to drop out, I was enjoying the game up until Thursday.
  • Slice 1 complete and it was definitely harder then past PvP's and a new weird twist was me defending more then 10 attacks in this event. It worked in this event as I just posted first place with a score of 880 and my wife finished 2nd with 650. We've been playing together for nearly 400 days and for the first time ever got the same bracket this time.

    I can't see thear changes being sustainable though because I don't foresee myself normally defending so many attacks. Usually the brunt of attacks are in the last few hours but I've been getting hit almost non stop since yesterday afternoon.

    Even with this success I still think the previous settings were better. Vets have already lived through the hard transition and newer players need that to learn the game and get better.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Name: Punisher5784
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 1
    Roster: All maxed 2*, 7 3* at lvl 110
    Usual PvP Placement: Top 100
    Experience: Only seeing level 94 characters, mostly Ares (of course). Only one instance I saw a lvl 150 Hood and Rogers, skipped them. Normally I'll hit 350-400 and see the 3* wall with a few decent matches here and there. I lost a couple of time due to **** T/U's (Call to Storm and Wind Storm) but other than that I finished with 495 points and I ranked #8! I've never ranked higher than 45 so this was a huge surprise. I'm not sure if this was due to the new matchmaking or if I just landed an easy bracket. Also I never got attacked which is odd after I hit 400.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Name: tintguy
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 4
    Roster: 3 166, 3 +140 several full covered 3*
    Usual PVP placement: T25,
    Last Season Average Score: 825
    Experience: Started taking hits right out of the gate. My first attack came below 150. Trying to find worthwhile matches is impossible. Skipping cycles through the same 3 players with no one worth more than 16 points
  • Voltemuse
    Voltemuse Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
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    Hi. My team is maxed XF and a few top tier 3* maxed.

    This pvp changes things the following way :
    1) i am constantly attacked so if i want a good score i need to shield everytime. So i will start later and play less
    2) in order to limit retal, now i prefer earn less points but target weak guys in transition as they cant win. with previous mmr i used to play challenging matchs for 40 pts against top players
    3) if a player sees me and has an edge on my team i can be hit 5-6 times by the same guy very quickly. This is VERY frustrating

    In conclusion: i usually adapt well to changes. But this new mmr is a pain. I could just ending playing only pve.
  • Voltemuse
    Voltemuse Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
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    Hi. My team is maxed XF and a few top tier 3* maxed.

    This pvp changes things the following way :
    1) i am constantly attacked so if i want a good score i need to shield everytime. So i will start later and play less
    2) in order to limit retal, now i prefer earn less points but target weak guys in transition as they cant win. with previous mmr i used to play challenging matchs for 40 pts against top players
    3) if a player sees me and has an edge on my team i can be hit 5-6 times by the same guy very quickly. This is VERY frustrating

    In conclusion: i usually adapt well to changes. But this new mmr is a pain. I could just ending playing only pve.
  • Name: bar5003
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 2
    Roster: 155 XF, 3 3*s at 140
    Usual PvP Placement: Top 50
    Last Season Avg Score: 775

    Experience: Matches were tougher out of the gate as others have said - no big deal. Didn't really start getting smacked around until 600. Eventually climbed to 650ish and shielded. Now here is where my problem started. Anytime someone above me in my bracket would unshield i couldn't find them to save my life. What did all of these people have in common? MAX 4* rosters. I'm not afraid to take them on. I like the challenge. I burned through thousands of ISO trying to find matches worth more than 15 points once i hit 700. The matchmaking system seemed like it was trying to match guys with similar rosters to mine. This is all well and good but when they aren't even close to my score that doesn't work well when your shield is about to run out. I saw more 2* rosters at 700 (worth 12 points) than i did on my entire climb.

    This morning i tried to hop and got sniped twice in two matches i thought i won fairly quickly. One was by a guy in the 200's. I lost 40 to him and 25 to another. NOT cool.

    Initially i thought the rewards change was awesome - finally the extra 3* cover would be mine at 800. Didn't realize it would be so difficult (and expensive) to get there.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    If there are no health packs, which implies all your characters must start every fight with max health, you'd just immediately retreat at the start of any challenging fight if the board doesn't have a match 5 on it for every PvE fight.

    It'd make far more sense either to have every character start with a burst of healing equal to some % of their max health or have characters take reduced damage from PvP.

    You could have retreating lower their max health for a time instead of doing actual damage. Some kind of cowardice penalty. What kind of hero runs from a fight anyway?

    Then what makes it go away? Time? But if it's any meaningful amount, that's the same as just losing health anyway.
  • PorkBelly
    PorkBelly Posts: 526 Critical Contributor
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    Name: PorkBelly
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 2
    Roster: XF at 220; 12 maxed 3*s - Day 468.
    Avg final score: 600-900 depending on event

    Experience- Beat the 3 seed teams & then immediately hit a wall of 290/270/270. I was running XF & C Mags (166). I started getting hit around 120 points. I'm not starting to shield at 100 points (or even 400). It seems as though developing your roster as a means to acquire a higher score is not a viable strategy with the current MMR. If this is the new normal, I'm done with PvP. Please revert to the previous MMR.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Name: tinykitty
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 2
    Roster: xf/fury at 155, 15 fully covered 3* at 153, assorted others at various levels between 153-94.
    Experience:
    Usually get 800-1000. Had 11044 last season.
    Normally I play a fairly large selection of my roster against the rabble of 2-4* transitioners and maxed 3* teams up to about 600, then rest and rush the high level 3-4* teams I get matched with from that point before shielding at about 800. Then it's shenanigans with shields.

    This event, I cleared the seed teams. Then it's maxed 3*/200+ 4*s all the way, with occasional transition and 2* teams for 18 points.
    Played on and off up to 400, since there's pve grinding to do and fighting 290/270/166 teams does tend to do a lot of damage. Lots of retals all the way, even from higher value targets. I guess my squishies are a tinykitty sight more appealing as an option than other 290/270/166 teams.

    Like someone said earlier, pvp is now pve. Except you can lose points! Lots and lots of points! All day! SO FUN. YAY. Yeah, no. icon_e_sad.gif

    about 4 hrs from end. My score stabilised at about 400 late in the day. After finishing my sub-ending grind and new sub clear, I went back to climbing.

    Got up to 600s uneventfully while taking breaks to prologue heal, got a defense win and started using iso boosts. Sorry to anyone I hit more than once - I tried to "wait" by taking other matches or going off to heal xf, but I kept cycling around the same targets, same as before the change.

    Reached 700 and decided to not push my luck even though I had enough health to make it through another match or two.

    My feeling so far is that an early climb is no longer viable because of the constant attacks, but if you have the roster for it and want to gamble on not being cascaded into a tinykitty smear on the floor, you can still go moderately high with a late climb and hope to hop later.

    I might have considered trying for 1k still, but it's been a long day at work and I'm tired. Whatever rewards I want will cycle around again eventually. Unless they get vaulted first.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    If there are no health packs, which implies all your characters must start every fight with max health, you'd just immediately retreat at the start of any challenging fight if the board doesn't have a match 5 on it for every PvE fight.

    It'd make far more sense either to have every character start with a burst of healing equal to some % of their max health or have characters take reduced damage from PvP.

    You could have retreating lower their max health for a time instead of doing actual damage. Some kind of cowardice penalty. What kind of hero runs from a fight anyway?

    Then what makes it go away? Time? But if it's any meaningful amount, that's the same as just losing health anyway.

    Except if you didn't lose health for exiting a match, in which case a cowardice badge makes you lose that health for retreating and you can't just board cycle until you see a crit tile or easy win.

    More I think about it the more I like retreating causing 1 hero chosen at random to be KO instead. It's still 1/3 of your health, it's just all piled on one dude. This time, Captain America covered your escape, and now he's resting for an hour. No new mechanics needed this way.
  • xequalsy
    xequalsy Posts: 231
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    xequalsy wrote:
    Name: xequalsy
    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 2
    Roster: 2x 166 3* (Hood, R&G), a few more near max/max covered 3* sitting at 100, and the rest all at 94
    Usual PvP Placement: Top100, never Top25, but usually never out of Top100 either

    Experience:
    The first 100 points were a massive slog through max 166 (some also had max IM) teams with the odd XF (but since I'm climbing late into the event, I shouldn't be seeing too many down at 100ish points). But up to 300 (where I've stopped for now since I'm out of health packs) were much easier. I started seeing some teams with a level 94 max 2* (plus the 166), or just under levelled 3*s who are also not max covered (e.g. ~120).

    Quick update - I'm shielded for the last 3 hours of the event at 608 (#51 atm). My matches haven't really changed much since 200 points. I've not seen any more 2* teams (except a lone mnmags/cstorm around 350ish) but my matchups are all against 3* teams, ranging from 100-166, most of which aren't maxed. IM wise, quite a few are using the loner, and pretty much none have him maxed (i.e. 290, or even maxed for the softcapped versions 5/5/1 or 5/5/2). I skipped a few times since I'm shielded, and only now have I reached the solid wall of 166/166s and 166/220-270. Very different experience it seems to people who have maxed 4*!

    I've never tried getting above 600 seriously, so I have no frame of comparison to the MMR last season, but I don't seem to be able to see the person at #7 who was unshielded at ~980ish points even after 8 or 9 skips. How did it work before? Or do I need to just try skipping more times before I see those people?
  • One question - part of the reason everyone's getting so upset about this is that they're valued rewards. What happens in the next PVP? Since I know I'm not getting the 3* cover at 800 - and I imagine a lot of other people are in the same boat - I'm going to start late and make very little attempt to seriously place if matchmaking is the same. No reason to set myself as bait for the 270 teams. I imagine a lot of people will do the same. What will that do to scoring, if no one thinks PVP is worth the effort anymore? I realize there will be people pushing, but scores are already seriously suppressed in a high-demand PVP. What happens with a low-demand on under these rules?
  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    One question - part of the reason everyone's getting so upset about this is that they're valued rewards. What happens in the next PVP? Since I know I'm not getting the 3* cover at 800 - and I imagine a lot of other people are in the same boat - I'm going to start late and make very little attempt to seriously place if matchmaking is the same. No reason to set myself as bait for the 270 teams. I imagine a lot of people will do the same. What will that do to scoring, if no one thinks PVP is worth the effort anymore? I realize there will be people pushing, but scores are already seriously suppressed in a high-demand PVP. What happens with a low-demand on under these rules?

    For me Ben, i will most likely join with 24h left in the event, play sporadically, and then maybe make one push with 3h to go... climbing as high as my Health packs allow. If i have a decent enough score, maybe i drop a 3h shield for the sake of the alliance. Either way, i wont be sweating pvp if i dont need the rewards. But i will always push late just to throw a wrench in the system by taking points away from the folks whom this is supoosed to help. I wont be doing that to purposefully be a d--k, but if this system is going to be changed, everyone will need to have a negative attitude about it.

    easy...marc
  • gmp72
    gmp72 Posts: 163 Tile Toppler
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    I have 2 games going :

    Mobile : 2-3* transition - Highest is XF at Level 131

    Steam (PC) - Highest is XF at Level 71

    For Heavy Metal, in both games, but especially the PC game, I have reached higher totals than usual and am placed higher so far.

    I used to start late (5-6 hours) to go and push till (2-3 hours) then shield.

    I think this new system works better if you start from the beginning, play 5 matches till your health packs are done, then come back when they're refilled and repeat.

    Be prepared to use up a little bit of ISO skipping matches ... but eventually you do find a decent option.
  • evil panda
    evil panda Posts: 419 Mover and Shaker
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    i purposely waited until the event was almost complete to add my data. now that i'm shielded for the duration (unless i fall out of placement), here goes:

    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 3 or 4, i forgot
    Roster: 2 L270 4* (Thor and XForce) and about 20 3* that are maxed or close enough to it
    Usual PvP Placement: usually play up to 1000 points and shield. i comfortably hit this target in unless i don't have time to play the event

    Experience:

    - cleared 3 seed teams
    - starting with the 4th match, faced high leveled or maxed 3* teams, or 3* teams plus a highly leveled or maxed XForce
    - climbed to 650 while taking maybe 5-6 hits. much slower progress - it took me all day as opposed to 2-3 hours under previous MMR
    - once i crossed 600 i got attacked a lot. ran out of health and threw up first shield at 650
    - since then it's been shield hopping all the way. usually i don't have to shield until 800+ points
    - will likely end the event at 913. i could hit 1000 if i was willing to spend more hp but i don't need the GT cover
    - i was looking at the scores of my usual opponents (XMen, Crewsaders, DMZ, Punishers etc), and it looks like they're hitting 1000 for the most part

    i enjoyed this event less, but i don't want to answer the poll yet because i want to see how we all adapt to this over the next few events first. i do have two observations, however - first, the top progression still seems attainable to top tier players but requires significantly more time and resources. second, i could not check every roster during my climb to top 10, but in my bracket i didn't see a single transitioner in the top 25 - everyone at least has a maxed 3* roster.

    EDIT: i forgot a third observation - this climb would have been a LOT harder if i didn't have multiple teams that could take on and reliably beat maxed 3* rosters. during this event i rotated Xforce, Goddess, Cage, Iron Fist, LThor, Daken, Patch, Loki, Hulk, Cmags and Cyclops. if i had, let's say, 6 decent maxed heroes i would have had a very different experience.
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
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    Event: Heavy Metal
    Slice: 3
    Roster: X-Force @ 166, 12 3*'s @ 166, 12 3*'s at 153 - 165 (including Iron Man at 156)
    Usual PvP Placement: Always top 100, sometimes top 50 (I don't shield hop, and generally try not to spend HP on shields unless I'm getting pummeled at the end and really need the 3* cover). I usually score in the 650 to 750 range.

    I started the event Saturday morning and got to the 300's on mostly 3* teams with levels varying from 110 - 166 and some not fully covered or underleveled X-Forces. The teams were certainly harder than I'm used to at that time, but I didn't feel like I was up against a 4* wall or anything. Getting to 300 pretty much ate up my health packs. Though the teams were harder, it was also easier to find matches worth 25 or more points, and many more matches in the 20 - 25 point range.

    Played in two sessions Sunday morning to get up to 650 points. At which point it feels pretty much like every other PvP for the last 6 months. Lots of maxed X-Force teams, a few other 4*'s, lots of Hood, Loki, Patch, Hulk, Magneto. A few more Thor, Blade, Rocket & Groots than I'm used to seeing.

    The top scores in my bracket look to be about 10% lower than normal, but nothing that raises any huge red flags.

    So overall I had harder early matches, but they tended to be for a few more points. The later part was pretty much business as usual. If I hadn't played the game before, this is probably a lot more like what I would expect from it, since I always felt like the wanton destruction of 2* players by 3* players in PvP was odd (extremely not-fun when I was starting the game, and something of an evil pleasure when I was the one doing it). I expect this will make joining the event toward the end a lot harder, which doesn't bother me at all (I always hate getting hit for -40 points near the end of the event by someone who is just starting).

    TL:DR: It didn't have a huge impact on my ability to have fun or score like I usually do. Made the game seem more "fair" to me. But I'm worried about the impact during Lightning Rounds, because it seems like this might make it nearly impossible to do well in those now. We'll see.