**** Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) **** Updated (8/22/17)

captainclownshoe

I've been using him at 553. And you're right I find he is good as long as you bring someone with a good yellow. I usually use him with either lazy thor, luke cage, or nick fury and i pretty much always bring scarlet witch or loki to make sure i have the countdown tile when i need it. That being said i haven't tried him at 535 and i agree 544 is pointless anyway cheers!

Blahahah

He's pretty damn good at 5/5/3 when paired with Black Panther.
Use his Fisk Defense to take away their advantage from Rage of the Panther when you need AoE, use your poke with Black Panther's long-lasting countdown tile for single-target damage, and BP's Yellow is pretty damn good.

lukewin

I have him at 3/5/3 and aiming for 5/5/3. My main use for him now is pairing him with Thor/IM40. If Thor can get rolling, she definitely punches way above her weight class. If I can't get 8 yellow from matches from IM40 in time, firing Kingpin purple gives me 8 yellow. It gives me a backup option, to either chase yellow or purple. I usually like to have 20 blue to stun 2 opponents, and hope that loads up enough charged tiles to down the 3rd opponent with her red.

I will also use him with SW/IF, since there'll always be a CD tile on the board, and his black will be a finisher, since I'll be more focused on using IF's purple.

I can understand wanting to max damage with 5/3/5, but I am not a fan on relying on CD tiles to pop off. I probably could use him the same at 5/3/5, but I like knowing that 5 purple will deliver 8 yellow.

sinnerjfl

TxMoose wrote:

currently at 4/5/4 and will likely add the 5th black here in earth's mightiest. many say 5/3/5 is a no-brainer and the vote was overwhelmingly for that too, but do the cds stay out long enough for them to go off? with 4 covers, I poke a couple and I maybe get one to go off. if that's all I'm going to get out of yellow, I'd rather gain the ap advantage in purple. yellow for cd damage seems awful slow too (expensive plus the countdown delay). was considering running 5/5/3 and would start leveling him, but now this thread has me wondering if that's best.

From my own experience (running 5/3/5 for about 2 months now), the CD tiles will mostly survive because you get 7 of them over 3 different colors. On average, 4 will survive easily and keeping 12 black before using yellow will assure you get damage out of black + the CD tiles will resolve.

I don't see why you'd go 5/5/3 unless you're gonna run him with a strong yellow and even there it's kind of a waste. 5 yellow AP or 8 yellow AP is not worth it compared to the upside of 3 vs 5 covers in yellow.

Quebbster

OK, so my Kingpin is speced the way I want him (5/3/5) and I have the ISO to max him. Is there any good reason not to do it now that he's boosted? I have fine maxed fourstars - Wolverine, Nick Fury, Thor, Hulkbuster and Jean Grey. Most other fourstars are softcapped, at least the good ones.

notamutant

Quebbster wrote:

OK, so my Kingpin is speced the way I want him (5/3/5) and I have the ISO to max him. Is there any good reason not to do it now that he's boosted? I have fine maxed fourstars - Wolverine, Nick Fury, Thor, Hulkbuster and Jean Grey. Most other fourstars are softcapped, at least the good ones.

I would save the ISO to eventually use on Iceman and Cyclops. If I saw a maxed Kingpin and a maxed Cyclops, I would skip Cyclops but not Kingpin.

atomzed

Quebbster wrote:

OK, so my Kingpin is speced the way I want him (5/3/5) and I have the ISO to max him. Is there any good reason not to do it now that he's boosted? I have fine maxed fourstars - Wolverine, Nick Fury, Thor, Hulkbuster and Jean Grey. Most other fourstars are softcapped, at least the good ones.

This week's the best time to max him because he is buffed. You get the most value out of him.

sinnerjfl

Max him, you want him to tank all his colors with his massive HP (he can live quite a while before needing a health pack). You also want max damage on his black and his CD tiles (some of them have middling damage, might as well get the most you can).

sinnerjfl

Since he's powered-up this week, might as well open this topic again as to wether 5/5/3 or 5/3/5 is better.

I have been running him in PVP and I have noticed that even though 5/5/3 is not the "optimal" build, it's actually more suited to PVP as it makes him a little faster out of the gate to start poking people to death. You only have to make one more yellow match vs two after using to launch CD's, you also destroy 1 more AP which seems dumb but it actually might save your **** more than you think. The destruction of the strongest AP is also undervalued (destroying IMHB's red is real fun) in general since AP stealers/destroyers are kind of rare in the 4* tier (only )


You still get 4 CD's out, and in PVP it hardly matters what they are as you just want to pop them. 5/5/3 makes it that he hardly runs out of yellow. You can also bring sexier to get Uncanny Strategist going, gather some TU which will generate if KP is higher and then pop it.

5/3/5 is still the most powerful build in PVE no question though.

laughingMAN

Totally agree. I ran a 553 KP before championing. I've tried running 535 since then, but what I find is that it's significantly more difficult to get out, and even when I do, typically all but maybe 2 or 3 of them go off despite my best efforts to protect them (and those Muscle tiles barely count. Seriously, why are they so terrible?). If some of them are black then maybe you net out a small positive, but yeah 553 offers not only more frequent casts but more versatility in conjunction with his black and AP crush.

If I had GG though, then it might be a much harder choice.

simonsez

Once you have a usable OML, it's a much easier choice. You're not going to want to use his black, so just go 3/5/5

richterbelmont10

Is this guy really that good? Two other threads that rank 4* characters put him in the top third or top quarter of all 4* characters. I'm asking because I have very little experience with him. I played with a fully covered and boosted Fisk in Story mode a couple times. I found that after I got a board full of Maggia pawns it was difficult to keep them and not get them matched away. Mind you, I love the speed of this guy and the self-generating Yellow. But is his damage really good?

Anyway, I'm just starting to collect 4* characters and I got his first cover from an LT pull. I'm short on roster slots and I have a Carnage in my queue also...

Blahahah

Yes and no on him being good. As a stand-alone character, he is fine. Great health, probably the only viable yellow battery in the entire game to be honest, 6 black for stupid good damage if theres a countdown. Pretty great.

Now for the problem: His colors are black, purple, and yellow. All 3 of these colors are, at least in the 4* tier, handled by much more capable characters. Add also that while the AP denial is fine, the 8 yellow is a bit over-budget for most of the abilities you'd want to use, and there's almost no point to when Jean is dishing out 3.6k to their entire team for just 2AP more. His yellow is outclassed by classic clops and the like, and his black eliminating countdowns would be great if not for the fact that abilities that you'd usually want to use it with are also black and usually more damaging.


So if he is a character you have fully covered and can max? Sure, go ahead.
If he is being put up against some of the top 4* in the tier and competing for iso, I'd rethink giving him any until you've got your solid core complete.

atomzed

Blahahah wrote:

Yes and no on him being good. As a stand-alone character, he is fine. Great health, probably the only viable yellow battery in the entire game to be honest, 6 black for stupid good damage if theres a countdown. Pretty great.

Now for the problem: His colors are black, purple, and yellow. All 3 of these colors are, at least in the 4* tier, handled by much more capable characters. Add also that while the AP denial is fine, the 8 yellow is a bit over-budget for most of the abilities you'd want to use, and there's almost no point to when Jean is dishing out 3.6k to their entire team for just 2AP more. His yellow is outclassed by classic clops and the like, and his black eliminating countdowns would be great if not for the fact that abilities that you'd usually want to use it with are also black and usually more damaging.


So if he is a character you have fully covered and can max? Sure, go ahead.
If he is being put up against some of the top 4* in the tier and competing for iso, I'd rethink giving him any until you've got your solid core complete.

Agree totally with blah... KP is an old 4*, and hence power creep has gradually over taken him. His black is good value for ap, and when buffed can deal 16k dmg. 6 ap for 16k! That's a lot. Problem is that he needs someone to give him the countdown, and the only reliable one will be a 3*, SW.

His yellow is a mixed bag. His cd often get matched away, but at the same time some will definitely remain. The best way to think about yellow is that it's a fire-and-hope for best skill. When it resolves it is actually satisfying. Fortunately he has a self acceleration and he can often fire 2 yellow in quick succession.

His purple is great, and since SW is his best partner, you have a lot of purple to use. Because of that my default build is 535; I am usually pairing him with SW, so I don't mind the lower ap generation.

Kp benefits greatly with champ. If i pair him with oml, and want to pop claws quickly, I will go 355; that 5 purple means I quickly generate 12 yellow. If I pair him with SW, then 535 is optimal. Anyone else, I will usually go 553, so that I can generate my own cd and use black to poke.

Kp is great when buffed, but if he is not buffed you are not likely to use him at all. I see him as a solid mid tier 4*.

Polares

I agree with both Blahahah and atomzed, KP is a very solid character, he sits nicely in the good-tier, BUT recently devs have released some very good 4s that are better than him. One problem he has now is that he was BFF of xpool before they 'nerfed' his black so he no longer destroyed xpool tiles. This was a big nerf for him, because those two together were a really good duo.

Iceman, IMHB, Jean, Rhulk, Cyclops, xpool, Punisher, Peggy, Nova, Quake, 4hor, Kate, thing and then maybe even ProfX, Antman and x23 are probably better (or more useful) than KP. I think he now sits together with Carnage, WinterS, Miles, Gwen, Drax, etc. that are those 4s that can be used over other good 4s when buffed as long as you don't have any top tier (well buffing to 370 now is quite a difference so I guess now they can be used always when buffed).

Blahahah

Polares wrote:

I agree with both Blahahah and atomzed, KP is a very solid character, he sits nicely in the good-tier, BUT recently devs have released some very good 4s that are better than him. One problem he has now is that he was BFF of xpool before they 'nerfed' his black so he no longer destroyed xpool tiles. This was a big nerf for him, because those two together were a really good duo.

Iceman, IMHB, Jean, Rhulk, Cyclops, xpool, Punisher, Peggy, Nova, Quake, 4hor, Kate, thing and then maybe even ProfX, Antman and x23 are probably better (or more useful) than KP. I think he now sits together with Carnage, WinterS, Miles, Gwen, Drax, etc. that are those 4s that can be used over other good 4s when buffed as long as you don't have any top tier (well buffing to 370 now is quite a difference so I guess now they can be used always when buffed).

I disagree with IMHB being above KP. IMO KP is faster and pumping out yellow is better than needing to be fed black. IF anything I'd put IMHB on the "maybe better" and x23 in the "definitely better". By the time IMHB gets his engine started, KP could have dealt a little over 11k for the same cost (provided you have consistent CD providers) and doesn't have to pour it all into one person. Might just be me, but when Drax is FASTER than the character, has more health and damage baseline which doesn't require him to punch himself in the face for 2k? That's a character whose had his time in the sun and it's time to retire. Power creep ahoy.

Polares

Blahahah wrote:

Polares wrote:

I agree with both Blahahah and atomzed, KP is a very solid character, he sits nicely in the good-tier, BUT recently devs have released some very good 4s that are better than him. One problem he has now is that he was BFF of xpool before they 'nerfed' his black so he no longer destroyed xpool tiles. This was a big nerf for him, because those two together were a really good duo.

Iceman, IMHB, Jean, Rhulk, Cyclops, xpool, Punisher, Peggy, Nova, Quake, 4hor, Kate, thing and then maybe even ProfX, Antman and x23 are probably better (or more useful) than KP. I think he now sits together with Carnage, WinterS, Miles, Gwen, Drax, etc. that are those 4s that can be used over other good 4s when buffed as long as you don't have any top tier (well buffing to 370 now is quite a difference so I guess now they can be used always when buffed).

I disagree with IMHB being above KP. IMO KP is faster and pumping out yellow is better than needing to be fed black. IF anything I'd put IMHB on the "maybe better" and x23 in the "definitely better". By the time IMHB gets his engine started, KP could have dealt a little over 11k for the same cost (provided you have consistent CD providers) and doesn't have to pour it all into one person. Might just be me, but when Drax is FASTER than the character, has more health and damage baseline which doesn't require him to punch himself in the face for 2k? That's a character whose had his time in the sun and it's time to retire. Power creep ahoy.

I think almost everybody will agree that IMHB is better than KP. Overdrive is (or was) one of the strongest powers in the game, it not only generates 9 red, it also creates two very strong strike tiles. Red has also the advantage that can be used to kill almost anything in this game.

I don't think KP is faster. First, almost everybody runs a 5/3/5, so 8 purple gives you 5 yellow, which is not enough to cast yellow. Then when you cast yellow you still need to wait some turns until the countdowns go off (if they go off). Or get extra AP and then use black. In any case this is slower. If you go the black rute for this 11k you mention, then you need someone to create these countdowns, I guess switch is the only one you can use for this, and you still need the 12 black AP. IMHB can also be used with IF who make him even faster. And there is a big difference between 11 and 12 AP. If you want speed, just boost +2 black and that is just 3 matches for overdrive (for that with KP you need to use extra boosts). Then when you get the 11 black with IMHB, you get the strikes, and the fire red, that's it, no conditional, no wait. Now everything has changed, but in the past firing overdrive meant you already won the match.

There is a reason everybody was runing with IMHB+IF teams instead of KP+switch (and I am not saying this team is bad).

sinnerjfl

Polares wrote:

I don't think KP is faster. First, almost everybody runs a 5/3/5, so 8 purple gives you 5 yellow, which is not enough to cast yellow. Then when you cast yellow you still need to wait some turns until the countdowns go off (if they go off). Or get extra AP and then use black. In any case this is slower. If you go the black rute for this 11k you mention, then you need someone to create these countdowns, I guess switch is the only one you can use for this, and you still need the 12 black AP. IMHB can also be used with IF who make him even faster. And there is a big difference between 11 and 12 AP. If you want speed, just boost +2 black and that is just 3 matches for overdrive (for that with KP you need to use extra boosts). Then when you get the 11 black with IMHB, you get the strikes, and the fire red, that's it, no conditional, no wait. Now everything has changed, but in the past firing overdrive meant you already won the match.

There is a reason everybody was runing with IMHB+IF teams instead of KP+switch (and I am not saying this team is bad).

Just some quick math here:
IMHB: 11 black AP gives you 9 red = 9 x 668 = ~6000 dmg (yes you get strike tiles but you also lose 1700 health)
KP: 6 black AP = ~6000 dmg

Yes KP needs a countdown to be on the board but quite frankly, that's really easy these days, there are a lot of options for him.
Of course SW is the 1st choice, but you also got Cyclops (yellow CD creating black and that you can pop after), Ant-Man can create 5 of them for 7 yellow, Xpool even without the bonus, Iceman (yes, it works very nicely, stun-pop-stun repeat), then you go into 3* land.

Oh, and he's quite good at creating them himself obviously.

He's still in my top10 even with the power creep, his numbers are still pretty strong and when boosted he murders everything.
He self-accelerates, great damage and his CD's are not the best in the world but they're helpful. Low cost abilties as well.

notamutant

sinnerjfl wrote:

Polares wrote:

I don't think KP is faster. First, almost everybody runs a 5/3/5, so 8 purple gives you 5 yellow, which is not enough to cast yellow. Then when you cast yellow you still need to wait some turns until the countdowns go off (if they go off). Or get extra AP and then use black. In any case this is slower. If you go the black rute for this 11k you mention, then you need someone to create these countdowns, I guess switch is the only one you can use for this, and you still need the 12 black AP. IMHB can also be used with IF who make him even faster. And there is a big difference between 11 and 12 AP. If you want speed, just boost +2 black and that is just 3 matches for overdrive (for that with KP you need to use extra boosts). Then when you get the 11 black with IMHB, you get the strikes, and the fire red, that's it, no conditional, no wait. Now everything has changed, but in the past firing overdrive meant you already won the match.

There is a reason everybody was runing with IMHB+IF teams instead of KP+switch (and I am not saying this team is bad).

Just some quick math here:
IMHB: 11 black AP gives you 9 red = 9 x 668 = ~6000 dmg (yes you get strike tiles but you also lose 1700 health)
KP: 6 black AP = ~6000 dmg

Yes KP needs a countdown to be on the board but quite frankly, that's really easy these days, there are a lot of options for him.
Of course SW is the 1st choice, but you also got Cyclops (yellow CD creating black and that you can pop after), Ant-Man can create 5 of them for 7 yellow, Xpool even without the bonus, Iceman (yes, it works very nicely, stun-pop-stun repeat), then you go into 3* land.

Oh, and he's quite good at creating them himself obviously.

He's still in my top10 even with the power creep, his numbers are still pretty strong and when boosted he murders everything.
He self-accelerates, great damage and his CD's are not the best in the world but they're helpful. Low cost abilties as well.

People need to stop doing this here. You can't just pretend a countdown is free when doing comparisons with other characters. SW is a 3 star and I would never bring her to a real 4 star fight, even when she is boosted. That means the only other characters you have need to spend AP to create countdowns. Most of those countdowns you want to either stay out for as long as possible (Cyclops, Ant-Man, Ice-Man) or you want them to go off (Kate Bishop, WS, KP). Kingpin is objectively worse than HB. There is a reason why you don't see HB in PvP when he isn't boosted. He came out pretty early in the 4 star deluge, so most people have him covered by now. He just isn't all that scary. Even ignoring power creep and just comparing HB to KP, I cannot think of a team better with KP than HB. KP isn't bad, he just isn't great.

Piro_plock

sinnerjfl wrote:

Just some quick math here:
IMHB: 11 black AP gives you 9 red = 9 x 668 = ~6000 dmg (yes you get strike tiles but you also lose 1700 health)
KP: 6 black AP = ~6000 dmg

Yes KP needs a countdown to be on the board but quite frankly, that's really easy these days, there are a lot of options for him.

To be fair, you should include the cost of creating that countdown. You need at least 5 more AP (or a 3* teammate like SW or Falcon, which makes you more of a target in PVP). 6k for 11 AP (and without the added benefit of 1k strike tiles) doesn't look so great anymore, does it?

sinnerjfl wrote:

(...) Iceman (yes, it works very nicely, stun-pop-stun repeat)

Popping Snowman countdown seems like a terrible choice to me (Iceman does 8k damage with it for the same cost!) unless you're running 5/3/5 Iceman... but then you're using Bobby's purple instead of Fisk's.