Upcoming Test: Powered-Up Characters in Versus

Unknown

Maybe I'm looking into this wrong but it seems to me this is just a way to get us to spend more money on the game to buy more roster slots and to have even more need for ISO to boost characters with.

Maybe I'm happy with using the same 3-6 characters all the time. I feel like diversity should be my choice and I don't need a kick in the **** to make the decision to diversify.

Unknown

Everything that helps the use of different characters in the game is good.

I'm not sure I agree with buffing 2*s and below though. We've experienced buffed 2/1* in the past with BOP and PvE, and those make atrocius amount of damage.

So, as much as with 2*/1* (unbuffed) in DDQ each day is fun, I don't think it will be fun playing with Ares/Cstorm/whatever in PvP in a regular basis just because they will become OP.

We've played with them a long time ago, we'd rather use recent characters that were released but were too weak to be used in PvP. That list is quite long.

SnowcaTT

aesthetocyst wrote:

So, the teaser for Hot Shot is up ... and there is a word about which characters are buffed, other than the Human Torch.

What gives?

When do we find out the slate of buffs?

Did i miss something? Or do we find out as a surprise when the event actually opens in 9 hours...?

Just from asking team-mates:
Juggy/Ares (the notable ones, I'm sure there are more)
IM/Hood/Loki/Patch/LT/(HT)

Full list: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25972

THIS will be the X-force test. What to you use folks, your 270 (or perhaps 220?) X-force or your 270 Patch? There were comparisons of the two to show X-force wasn't greatly OP if you boosted Patch, here is the chance to find out.

Unknown

Now that it's here...it feels almost gimmicky...it feels like forced roster diversity...anyone that doesn't have these buffed characters...well you're screwed (I do have them btw, just thinking about others)...I don't think much will really change we just see different aesthetics...like someone stated before it feels like a desperation move. Hopefully they get some good data out of this.

tanis3303

Personally, I will be leaving my 5/5/3 lvl 270 xforce on the bench for this pvp, and I encourage everyone that doesn't want to see him get the Thora treatment to do the same. There's a lot of teams that are playable with that list, forgoing all of them in favor of xforce is going to give the devs all the evidence they need to put him down for good.

Unknown

Patch and Loki

THANK YOU DEVS!

Unknown

Nobody's going to touch X Force but this adds considerable variety to the 'and others' part of the team, and a level 280 character like Thor can definitely hang with X Force. One problem I see is that skills that do not scale with level would likely be dominant, like Surgical Strike, all of Loki's skills, and Dormammu's Aid, though hopefully the threat of getting one shot by a level 280 would keep some of those guys in line (and it's perfectly fine Loki/The Hood are dominant while featured). In general the average game is much harder for the previous top players since your characters haven't changed much while your opponent now likely has at least one guy that can match X Force's raw stats (but not skills). It'll be interesting to see whether the degenerate high level PvP becomes more degenerate because it's harder so people are even more dependent on the usual tricks, or does it become so hard at one point that people stop trying. I'm guessing it'd be the former but who knows, maybe if you can't effortlessly stomp guys people might actually give up.

Arondite

Personally I feel like a 280 Thor is gonna be bringing more pain than X Force.

Pwuz_

arktos1971 wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with buffing 2*s and below though. We've experienced buffed 2/1* in the past with BOP and PvE, and those make atrocius amount of damage.

So, as much as with 2*/1* (unbuffed) in DDQ each day is fun, I don't think it will be fun playing with Ares/Cstorm/whatever in PvP in a regular basis just because they will become OP.

I don't think that's the point really. I know it can be hard to remember what it was like when working from a 2* roster, but buffing a few 1* & 2* characters could give a few less developed characters a chance to push into some scores they wouldn't be able to dream of otherwise.

No one who has a partially developed 3* roster is going to put in Juggs or Ares over most 3* characters. This just levels the playing field a little.

I'm always excited to see the developers encourage us to use more than just the same old 2 or 3 characters. I'm just hoping the buffed characters they choose are selected a little more carefully than the random order of reward covers they usually use. I don't think buffing X-Force & Goddess Thor would be a good idea.

Unknown

What's interesting is...

Today I can use 4Thor to chop down Boosted 3* Thor etc.

Tomorrow....?

Unknown

Switchman wrote:

What's interesting is...

Today I can use 4Thor to chop down Boosted 3* Thor etc.

Tomorrow....?

Tomorrow you use boosted Thor to chop down boosted Thor.

Ok, so, boosted 3* Thor has about 16,000 health. Increased by about 60% (160% of base) which is where the Devs are telling us 4*s should be. Based on that inference I'm going to want 4* Thor's damage numbers to be pretty close to boosted 3* Thor's damage numbers, and they just aren't.

3* Thor's boosted (3 covers) 2270 damage for 8 AP plus 3 random - 283.75 damage per AP.
3* Thor's boosted (5 covers) 4125 damage for 12 AP plus 9 random - 343.75 damage per AP with substantial bonus
3* Thor's boosted (5 covers) a massive 14,996 damage for 14 AP - 1071 damage per AP.

4* Thor's (3 covers) ~1200 x3 damage for 12 AP plus up to 3 random charge tiles - 300 damage per AP. (so far so good)
4* Thor's (5 covers) 3 turn stun and 5 charge tiles - 0 damage. (hmm... but it charges right?)
4* Thor's Power Smite ( -> ) 4025 +5*725 = 7650 damage and a 3 round stun and 8 charge tiles for 19 AP - 402 damage per AP. (FAIL)

Somewhere recently I actually said the words 19,000 damage for 19 AP might be a bit much. Now I am not so sure. I might be reversing that decision. I have no idea how or for what you value a 3 round stun and the 8 charge tiles (which are a super double edge sword), nor do I have any idea how the random tile output is weighted, but as with other multi functional powers being OK at 3 things is not OK, you must be good at at lest one thing. 3* Thor is good at damage with a side order of random tile generation. 4* Thor is now good at what... special tile clearing with 5 ? Hitpoints? No, because 3* Thor is good at that too and still has damage. Stun? Not really, a 9 AP stun for 3 turns isn't great. AP accelerating in / / ? Maybe. She ain't good at damage tho, that's for sure.

I get that some consideration is necessary for charge tile and stun value, but you guys are the ones that wanted Smite to build off of Power Surge. Her damage isn't anywhere near 160% of a good 3*, not even a half decent one, and I'm not even looking at 3* Thor's Thunderstrike damage at all. 4* Thor has become a support character instead of a tanky brawler and that makes me super super sad.

Unknown

Maybe I'm missing something here, but this seems absolutely nuts to me. Wouldn't this make 4 stars pretty much worthless? What's the point of even getting and building up a 4 star team if they can just be beat up by 3 stars? and if that were the case, then what's even the point of anything any more? There would be no motivation for anyone to bother going past 3 stars or try to rank high in anything. Why even play if some rank 200 kid could just come in and slaughter your 4 star team that you spent a year building?

edit: ok I did miss something. I see that 4 stars will also potentially be boosted. Still though, this just seems like a huge, chaotic wrench to throw into the power balance...

NorthernPolarity

Ralstonator wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but this seems absolutely nuts to me. Wouldn't this make 4 stars pretty much worthless? What's the point of even getting and building up a 4 star team if they can just be beat up by 3 stars? and if that were the case, then what's even the point of anything any more? There would be no motivation for anyone to bother going past 3 stars or try to rank high in anything. Why even play if some rank 200 kid could just come in and slaughter your 4 star team that you spent a year building?

edit: ok I did miss something. I see that 4 stars will also potentially be boosted. Still though, this just seems like a huge, chaotic wrench to throw into the power balance...

This is one of those rash conclusions that just doesn't really make sense. Here's the opposite argument "Half the characters Demiurge releases are 3*s. Why should I bother putting in any iso into these characters when I have 4*s that just roflstomp everyone during all PvPs?" One of the things that is really nice about this change is that a person who maxes a lot of three stars is REWARDED for having a deep roster. Previously, if player A has been playing for a while and has all the 3*s decently covered / leveled as well as the 4*s, he would be basically at the exactly the same place as a wallet warrior who just went and maxed XF / GT. With this new system, the veteran who has a deep 3* roster can use a couple of his characters every week, and they will be on par with 4*s.

What is the point of unbuffed 4*s now? The point is that you can still use them in EVERY SINGLE PVP and they will still be as good as buffed 3*s. You can't say "my 4* gives me no advantage", because what about the times where the 3* guy DOESNT have a buffed character, or if the buffed characters suck? You can always rely on your X-Force and while he won't be completely and utterly broken as he was before, he's obviously still top tier when choosing teams for this new PvP format. Your advantage is that you get to use your X-Force no matter what, and when he's buffed, you dominate that much more. It's ridiculous to say that the 4*s are worthless as a result.

Of course, this logic mostly only applies to X-Force, since unbuffed Fury and the other 4*s aren't really on par with buffed 3*s anymore since Demiurge sucks at balancing, but it's not like you expected your Starlord or Fury to magically become relevant to begin with.

Unknown

As a stop gap solution they should boost the 4* to somewhere around level 420 and just make sure that X Force is never selected as the 4* to boost.

atomzed

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Ralstonator wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but this seems absolutely nuts to me. Wouldn't this make 4 stars pretty much worthless? What's the point of even getting and building up a 4 star team if they can just be beat up by 3 stars? and if that were the case, then what's even the point of anything any more? There would be no motivation for anyone to bother going past 3 stars or try to rank high in anything. Why even play if some rank 200 kid could just come in and slaughter your 4 star team that you spent a year building?

edit: ok I did miss something. I see that 4 stars will also potentially be boosted. Still though, this just seems like a huge, chaotic wrench to throw into the power balance...

This is one of those rash conclusions that just doesn't really make sense. Here's the opposite argument "Half the characters Demiurge releases are 3*s. Why should I bother putting in any iso into these characters when I have 4*s that just roflstomp everyone during all PvPs?" One of the things that is really nice about this change is that a person who maxes a lot of three stars is REWARDED for having a deep roster. Previously, if player A has been playing for a while and has all the 3*s decently covered / leveled as well as the 4*s, he would be basically at the exactly the same place as a wallet warrior who just went and maxed XF / GT. With this new system, the veteran who has a deep 3* roster can use a couple of his characters every week, and they will be on par with 4*s.

What is the point of unbuffed 4*s now? The point is that you can still use them in EVERY SINGLE PVP and they will still be as good as buffed 3*s. You can't say "my 4* gives me no advantage", because what about the times where the 3* guy DOESNT have a buffed character, or if the buffed characters suck? You can always rely on your X-Force and while he won't be completely and utterly broken as he was before, he's obviously still top tier when choosing teams for this new PvP format. Your advantage is that you get to use your X-Force no matter what, and when he's buffed, you dominate that much more. It's ridiculous to say that the 4*s are worthless as a result.

Of course, this logic mostly only applies to X-Force, since unbuffed Fury and the other 4*s aren't really on par with buffed 3*s anymore since Demiurge sucks at balancing, but it's not like you expected your Starlord or Fury to magically become relevant to begin with.

Well said, well said.

I am looking forward to seeing a more varied team.

For me, I could be using
HT-Patch-Loki
HT-Xforce-Hood
HT-XForce-Lthor

All 3 teams are good and can beat any team.

puppychow

CoolB76 wrote:

Maybe I'm looking into this wrong but it seems to me this is just a way to get us to spend more money on the game to buy more roster slots and to have even more need for ISO to boost characters with.

Maybe I'm happy with using the same 3-6 characters all the time. I feel like diversity should be my choice and I don't need a kick in the **** to make the decision to diversify.

If you look at the daily deadpool event, which require 1 stars in 1 node, 2 stars in a second node, plus a featured in a third node, D3 clearly wants players to have a diverse roster to fully participate in this event. Now we have pvp where certain characters will be boosted on a weekly basis, therefore theoretically giving players owning such characters a distinct advantage in pvp events for that week.

Clearly, these moves seek to "encourage" players to buy slots, and cover packs to unlock new characters at the very least, if not to buy iso/hp to level additional characters. In the end, D3 is a business that seeks to increase revenue. That's capitalism at work, and there's nothing shady about it.

puppychow

Ralstonator wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but this seems absolutely nuts to me. Wouldn't this make 4 stars pretty much worthless? What's the point of even getting and building up a 4 star team if they can just be beat up by 3 stars? and if that were the case, then what's even the point of anything any more? There would be no motivation for anyone to bother going past 3 stars or try to rank high in anything. Why even play if some rank 200 kid could just come in and slaughter your 4 star team that you spent a year building?

edit: ok I did miss something. I see that 4 stars will also potentially be boosted. Still though, this just seems like a huge, chaotic wrench to throw into the power balance...

Here's the thing. . . 4* characters are very exclusive and tough to get. Majority of the MPQ player base does not have one, right? If you're D3 and you want to convince more players to spend money to buy covers, packs, hp, iso, etc., how would you go about accomplishing this? One way is to make three star and even 2 star characters more attractive to players by boosting their levels so that a boosted 3* would be somewhat comparable in power to a 4*, and a 2* to a 3*. To me these moves are designed to open mpq to the "masses" rather than the top, hardcore pvp players.

In order for a game to thrive, you need revenue and to do that you need players who spend money. I view these moves as attempts by D3 to get casual players to spend more money on this game.

Unknown

I don't see how that would make newer players spend more. It would make them happier maybe, sure, but if anything it sounds like it would make things even easier for new players and if the bars they need to reach for maximum competing power and worthwhile ranks are lowered, they would be spending even less to achieve the same results. Why try to shoot for top 10+ to get the best rewards or go for 1000 points to get the 4 star or try to grind a pve with a new 4 star if you can just get and level a 3 star for a fraction of the effort and resources that it costs to get and level a 4 star? Why spend extra money for shield hopping or health packs if you can coast by on top 100? Especially when it just keeps getting easier and easier to get 3 stars...

Whatever though. The initial panic is out of my system. I'll adapt and push on like with all the other questionable changes.

atomzed

Ralstonator wrote:

I don't see how that would make newer players spend more. It would make them happier maybe, sure, but if anything it sounds like it would make things even easier for new players and if the bars they need to reach for maximum competing power and worthwhile ranks are lowered, they would be spending even less to achieve the same results. Why try to shoot for top 10+ to get the best rewards or go for 1000 points to get the 4 star or try to grind a pve with a new 4 star if you can just get and level a 3 star for a fraction of the effort and resources that it costs to get and level a 4 star? Why spend extra money for shield hopping or health packs if you can coast by on top 100? Especially when it just keeps getting easier and easier to get 3 stars...

Whatever though. The initial panic is out of my system. I'll adapt and push on like with all the other questionable changes.

My emphasis in bold above.

You hit it right on the head... The rotating buff benefits people with 2*, 3* rosters than the 4* rosters.

Why did D3 create this system? I believe they did it because they want to create a fun game, a game which players at different levels of progression (2*, 2* to 3*, 3*, 3*to 4*) can enjoy. The rotating buffs is especially targeted at those players of 2* to 3*, and the 3* players.... So that they can dust off their 3* characters.

This would also shake up the meta, so that every week, we have different "team of the week". You won't fight the same old Xforce-4or at the highest level cos there are so many teams that are viable. Hopefully.

For those who feels that this is a cash grab, do read the analysis post from Northern polarity.

rdevil32

atomzed wrote:

Why did D3 create this system? I believe they did it because they want to create a fun game, a game which players at different levels of progression (2*, 2* to 3*, 3*, 3*to 4*) can enjoy. The rotating buffs is especially targeted at those players of 2* to 3*, and the 3* players.... So that they can dust off their 3* characters.

This would also shake up the meta, so that every week, we have different "team of the week". You won't fight the same old Xforce-4or at the highest level cos there are so many teams that are viable. Hopefully.

For those who feels that this is a cash grab, do read the analysis post from Northern polarity.

Here's the link. 2 thumbs up.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26012