Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: Darkwing Duck wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: ... These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs ... You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional. You missed the point. It's about the implications of the Thoress yellow nerf, not the results of it. Obviously the yellow nerf is meaningless since no one used her yellow anyways. My point was that think about the dev's thought process that lead to this change in the first place. Dev 1 - "Hey, charged tiles are actually pretty good. Surge and smite should be changed and toned down". Dev 2 - "Yeah! What about yellow though? That ability uses charged tiles too." Dev 3 - " Hmmm.... I dunno. I haven't heard any complaints about yellow, but you may be right just because its the same mechanic. Lets nerf it to be safe". This is EXACTLY the line of thinking that led to wheelchairing Sentry - a character needs a nerf. The devs don't understand how to nerf the character properly, and play it safe by overdoing it, while neutering the character in the process. They need to fix this thought process so that future characters don't end up suffering the same fate as Sentry. As a whole this is clearly not as bad as Sentry / Spider-man, but it doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned and things to improve on. I doubt they went through that. I think it's far more likely they went through a numerical analysis of budget like you mentioned earlier, something like: 4* abiities have 10000 points of power Striking Distance does about 6000 damage that uses up 6000 out of 10000. Before charged tiles are valued at 800 points so this ability creates 5 charged tiles. After realizing they grossly undervalued strike tile they now cost 1500, so this Striking Distance now creates 3 charged tile instead of 5. In this particular case it's also hard to place a value on 'remove arbitary special tiles'. At removing 5 it pretty much gets rid of everything besides World Rupture, Phermone Rage, Hail Storm, or The Thirst, and that could be pretty powerful. At 3, it's possible something might slip through. I'm not sure how practical it is, but that probably cost something too.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Darkwing Duck wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: ... These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs ... You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional. You missed the point. It's about the implications of the Thoress yellow nerf, not the results of it. Obviously the yellow nerf is meaningless since no one used her yellow anyways. My point was that think about the dev's thought process that lead to this change in the first place. Dev 1 - "Hey, charged tiles are actually pretty good. Surge and smite should be changed and toned down". Dev 2 - "Yeah! What about yellow though? That ability uses charged tiles too." Dev 3 - " Hmmm.... I dunno. I haven't heard any complaints about yellow, but you may be right just because its the same mechanic. Lets nerf it to be safe". This is EXACTLY the line of thinking that led to wheelchairing Sentry - a character needs a nerf. The devs don't understand how to nerf the character properly, and play it safe by overdoing it, while neutering the character in the process. They need to fix this thought process so that future characters don't end up suffering the same fate as Sentry. As a whole this is clearly not as bad as Sentry / Spider-man, but it doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned and things to improve on.
Darkwing Duck wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: ... These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs ... You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional.
NorthernPolarity wrote: ... These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs ...
darkmagearcanis wrote: My question is, if no one used 4Thor's yellow, why complain about it? What is the point? To me it sounds as if her yellow was used more than what you claim. If it was so unused, you should be looking at it like "oh they changed her yellow? HA! Jokes on them, it was never used" and leave it at that.
JCTthe3rd81 wrote: I was thinking about all the upcoming changes to infinite combos and OP characters last night, and I realized something. They forgot one ! There is one aspect of this game that is WAY, WAY, WWAAAAAAAAYYYYY over powered and needs an immediate nerf. What is it you ask? Well, it would be ...... Roster Slot Prices! The prices are not only OP, but get stronger will each one added. D3 said they want to get rid of broken, infinite parts of the game. Well, roster slots continue to go up in price infinitely! So why have they not been nerfed yet?
Moon 17 wrote: Bottom line: if charged tiles are a problem, change charged tiles. I can live with that. But give the Goddess her hammer! The stun can stay at 4 turns, and her raw Smite damage can be tweaked to make up for the tile loss, and her yellow...really, that one didn't need to be changed. Making a 4* into a high HP 3* isn't balancing. Otherwise Devil Dino might be less of a joke.
Moon 17 wrote: I'll start with the worst tragedy: for 19 AP, TGT now stuns a dude and smacks a second for 7k damage. This is incredibly close to what Mystique does, except Mystique has an explicit ability to accelerate into her damage combo. Thor and X-Force were setting the standard for 4* characters...now? Just X-Force, who will assuredly get neutered down to approximately 3* levels of power now that he will be otherwise uncontested. Why am I bothering to progress to 4* characters, again? Bottom line: if charged tiles are a problem, change charged tiles. I can live with that. But give the Goddess her hammer! The stun can stay at 4 turns, and her raw Smite damage can be tweaked to make up for the tile loss, and her yellow...really, that one didn't need to be changed. Making a 4* into a high HP 3* isn't balancing. Otherwise Devil Dino might be less of a joke.
Moon 17 wrote: Finally, Magneto and Iron fist. Magneto's purple was cheap and targeted; I get that this is a problem. It's tough to see a 2* with a unique role to fill having his niche power cut, but if that's necessary for long term balance I guess that's fine. And let's not forget that his red is really good; feeding it is a fine thing. I'm willing to wait and see on this one. I'll wait and see for IF, too...but I don't think his incredibly mild nerf did much to curb his danger. His crazy free attack tile remains untouched, and his tile creation is still second-to-none. Anyone upset about his nerf should make it a point to never again read the text of his purple without subsequently rereading the text of Loki's. Those abilities, despite their identical cost, are in no ways equal. And if you think that disparity is made up for by IF's low health or lack of quality skills to accompany his purple, I have a few other things you'll need to read...
GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: Because of the nature of the game, we're used to discussing things in terms of "what does it do on first pass?" But 4Thor, while yes, equivalent to Mystique for 19AP, does potentially more damage the longer a match goes (or say wave matches), presuming charged tiles remain. This is especially key once it gets to the stage where Thor can stun-lock the last character. Also unlike most other combos, there's the chance that we get another character that creates charged tiles, in which case Thor becomes more powerful as a partner than she is as an individual.