Coming Soon: Character Updates!

darkmagearcanis

SnowcaTT wrote:

darkmagearcanis wrote:

My question is, if no one used 4Thor's yellow, why complain about it? What is the point? To me it sounds as if her yellow was used more than what you claim. If it was so unused, you should be looking at it like "oh they changed her yellow? HA! Jokes on them, it was never used" and leave it at that.

Blue was obviously the problem, but created synergy. If they left yellow alone, there still could be synergy - and options on a build. It could be 5/4/4. It could be 4/4/5. It could be almost anything!

Different builds make characters interesting, imo. I like seeing no consensus about the best Blade, Doom, Daredevil, Daken - it's a bummer when anyone can glance at BP/Psy and immediately know they don't want five blue.

From what I see for 4Thor is that synergy is still there, just really slower than what she used to be. I don't disagree that the yellow ability should be left alone, as i myself do like a non-consensus build for characters. I just wanted to point out that there is no reason to complain if the ability was "never" used. I agree with most people that the progression of the Blue Covers should be about 7 charge tiles instead of 5. That seems to be more reasonable on any scale.

darkmagearcanis

simonsez wrote:

darkmagearcanis wrote:

My question is, if no one used 4Thor's yellow, why complain about it? What is the point? To me it sounds as if her yellow was used more than what you claim. If it was so unused, you should be looking at it like "oh they changed her yellow? HA! Jokes on them, it was never used" and leave it at that.

Not really... the joke's still on us, because this is a stark indication that they're really, really bad at understanding the game and balancing characters.

This is evident in the sense of the bait and switch they do. I understand that it is a business but they really should look at MPQ as being something that could be around a long time rather than a "get as much as we can and cash out". If they have any hopes of expanding as a company they should hire actual business professionals to re-evaluate business practices.

ronin_san

With the advent of Ragnarok and obviously Gambit in the future, charged tiles Give 4hor the potential to one-shot even Devil Dino. That becomes OP in a heartbeat. I understand why she was detuned, but I hate that it was so encompassing. She wasn't put in a kneebrace. She was given a full leg cast and told to continue swinging.

Unknown

Arimis Thorn wrote:

Mjolnerfed.

Glad I didn't drop the $100+ to buy up her covers.

Having said that, it seems like there were a ton of threads talking about how powerful she was. You didn't even need an XF to go with her. I'm told 4hor + Loki + literally any other character was highly effective, and Loki was just there to board shake for blue/red matches.

I understand that she must have been a ton of fun to play with, but people had to see this coming, right?

I think that's the point though. D3 releases a character that's great. OP or not. Whatever, people like her. So they spend money and/or time effort to get covers. Then they nerf her.

Same thing with IF. It's just crazy. And it doesn't seem right.

Polares

ronin-san wrote:

With the advent of Ragnarok and obviously Gambit in the future, charged tiles Give 4hor the potential to one-shot even Devil Dino. That becomes OP in a heartbeat. I understand why she was detuned, but I hate that it was so encompassing. She wasn't put in a kneebrace. She was given a full leg cast and told to continue swinging.

But we don't how know much this Gambit ability will cost, but we are talking of 10+9+X, so maybe to one shot evil dino you will be needing around 25 or more AP, and the use of two different chars and 3 different abilities!!!

And then there is the problem of over nerfing. Ok, maybe we can agree that 4hor is too good, but then D3 nerfs her into oblivion, right now, even Devil Dino is better than her, a 'joke' char is better than the previous second best char in the entire game (and of course fury, BP, thor, luke cage, IF, Captain America, Cyclops, Hood, Loki, etc are better than her). Everybody agrees that she should generate 7 or 8 power tiles, not 5. Or make Smite begin with 5000 or 6000 base damage or do 1000 damage per charged tile. Nerf, not overnerf!

tanis3303

This has probably already been said, but the part that really bugs me is the clear lack of understanding as to WHY she was overpowered. I can see the conversation at d3 playing out something like this:

Dev A: Hey Wingus, everyone is complaining about Goddess Thor, I think she might be too strong.

Dev B: Oh really Dingus? Well, I've never gotten to play with her yet, I don't have any 4* characters in my roster. What's the problem?

Dingus: Well, it seems her charged tiles are a bit too strong.

Wingus: Ok, I guess I can see that. Hmmm...well, dial down the blue by 70%, that one is obvious. Hey, her yellow makes charged tiles too. We should reign that in as well, right?

Dingus: Totally.

Seriously folks, play your game. Play it at a high, competitive level. You're the developers, just give yourselves max levels of all the characters and play a few events with us. Understand the why of what you're changing. Aim for a top 5 finish in a new release PvE, and learn what it means to grind lvl 395 Ares/Bullseye/Daken battles 3-5 times in a row to stay on top. Play some PvP events and learn just how easily beatable Thor really is. Did she need to be toned down? Yes, probably, but if you played the game at a competitive level, you would know that 5 charged tiles makes her barely better than a 3* character. I'm in agreement with everyone else, if a nerf HAS to be implemented, 7 is the right number, trust us here, we actually know what we're talking about. We were right about Iron Fist, and we're right about this too.

Unknown

tanis3303 wrote:

This has probably already been said, but the part that really bugs me is the clear lack of understanding as to WHY she was overpowered. I can see the conversation at d3 playing out something like this:

Dev A: Hey Wingus, everyone is complaining about Goddess Thor, I think she might be too strong.

Dev B: Oh really Dingus? Well, I've never gotten to play with her yet, I don't have any 4* characters in my roster. What's the problem?

Dingus: Well, it seems her charged tiles are a bit too strong.

Wingus: Ok, I guess I can see that. Hmmm...well, dial down the blue by 70%, that one is obvious. Hey, her yellow makes charged tiles too. We should reign that in as well, right?

Dingus: Totally.

Seriously folks, play your game. Play it at a high, competitive level. You're the developers, just give yourselves max levels of all the characters and play a few events with us. Understand the why of what you're changing. Aim for a top 5 finish in a new release PvE, and learn what it means to grind lvl 395 Ares/Bullseye/Daken battles 3-5 times in a row to stay on top. Play some PvP events and learn just how easily beatable Thor really is. Did she need to be toned down? Yes, probably, but if you played the game at a competitive level, you would know that 5 charged tiles makes her barely better than a 3* character. I'm in agreement with everyone else, if a nerf HAS to be implemented, 7 is the right number, trust us here, we actually know what we're talking about. We were right about Iron Fist, and we're right about this too.

Even if this is true the alternative(which may games do, actually) is to LISTEN to your players. No, not the ones who say 'spiderman doesn't need a buff, I beat level 999 sentry with him'. Many games now release content early so that players can judge it/criticize it so that devs can fix it. Because what's better and more numerous than an employee? People who lives and breathes the content. We've got people like Turul and phantron here, very smart people who don't seem to have any hidden agendas when talking about characters and if they're balanced or not. We have tier lists that show the lay of the land. I'm not saying listen to everything the forums say. But there's actually a pretty good community here that you don't see in most of gaming.

tanis3303

Agreed! And 99% of that community is telling them they went too far.

KrazyKeylime

well that is not quite true there have been some dissenting views, but most of those have admitted to have very little use of 4 Thor 75%-80%.

Unknown

Rebalancing characters is a nessesary thing in any competive game. Without proper balancing we'll have one winning combinaton of characters, and those that have them automatically win, while those that don't have them have no chance to compete. So I agree that nerf is needed when nerf is needed. That's logical. But...

BUT!

What a hell is with 2* Magneto nerf? Nerfing 2* seems low blow. It hurts mostly people that gather 2* or transiton from 2* to 3*, making more of them to leave the game before they get into 3* group. I left 2* era behind, but I still feel for everyone that stuck at that point right now. And am I wrong to assume that 2* people rarely buy paid content then 3* and 4* because they doesn't have a solid roster that can be improved by such purchase yet? That people are less likely to pay if they spent less time and efford on the game?

If someone is convinced, that it is not a nerf, let's look at 2* Mag(MN) closely.
What does Mag worth by himself? Not much. He has low HP, so he shouldn't tank unless he is protecting someone even more squishy (Storm, OBW). His is complete garbage, is better but not that good: there are different ways countdowns can be coutered, especially if red is not maxed. So using to feed Mag himself is useless. Mag's true purpose is combination play, feeding someone else.
So instead of good to we shall have mediocre to & Let's see how it affects first. Gathering blue becames slower. Also, not on every board 3 tiles can make a match 5 on spot, so when you collect enough purple there can be a good reason to delay using it. Especially if you use 2* Hawkeye. So blue suffers greatly.
But maybe we can compensate with ? There are some red falling. Note, interfearing with the board we carefully planned by placing blue, so it's a con, but still, can we get use of that? Who in pure 2* roster have good red?
1) Wolwerine. His red is great, but it's also cost a lot, in combination with Mag, Wolwe and some blue user both are going to get their color slow.
2) Thor. His is quick, but it then needed to be converted into , and then into . And if you don't have enough at the end of this combo, you need to do it again, replacing already placed tiles with & again. Doable, but not without flaws.
3) Hawkeye. He use both & , but as I stated before a combination with his is nerfed.

Everyone else 2*'s is useless.

My verdict: it's much easy to concentrate on getting primary colors for such characters then gather for Mag. It's more useful to replace Mag with someone that can fight on their own.

And I know what you are thinking: are you married, Kaze? Not yet, but let's talk about "winfinite combo" first, ignoring my confusion on how you can call "infinite" something that relay on chance of getting nessesary color (50% for first round, 25% for first and second together, and so on...) Of course any infinites should be prevented. But, as some people here already pointed, there is much better solution: to prevent Mistique/Magneto infinite you can simply change Mistique's to other color that is not And problem solved.

At the end I want to ask: if Mag gets his nerf, who is left for 2* players to play with? Mag is the only 2* that can change colors (except miss Marvel, but she need you to have a proper team-up to work). Here is a list of 2* characters that I recomend to not collect due to their uselessness:
Bagman
Bulseye
Captain America
Moonstone
Johny Storm
And now Magneto joins this team (dragging Hawkeye with him). Welcome to die, Magneto, because you'll die soon.

Can we get to a new low? Who is going to be nerfed next? 1*? Bagman?

Unknown

ronin-san wrote:

With the advent of Ragnarok and obviously Gambit in the future, charged tiles Give 4hor the potential to one-shot even Devil Dino. That becomes OP in a heartbeat. I understand why she was detuned, but I hate that it was so encompassing. She wasn't put in a kneebrace. She was given a full leg cast and told to continue swinging.

Ragnarok's charge tile ability uses blue AP.... Power surge uses blue AP.... Ragnarok doesn't help her hit harder with smite in any way.

Also... if we assume gambit gets charged tiles and we assume it's not on blue or red and we assume it's enough tiles to make a difference..... should they follow up a set of nerfs aimed at removing a broken combo by making a new broken combo?

Also there's no way a Gambit ability will make enough charged tiles to let her one hit devil dino after power surge + ability + smite.... do you know how many charged tiles that would take from Gambit????? No way he'll be making anywhere near that many given the claim from D3 that they were under costed so 4Thor needed a very sizable nerf.

Totally agree with your other statement though.

loroku

I'm not a big one to complain about nerfs but the 2* Mags one hits me pretty hard. You sort of just nailed all the 2* people with that one; Stormneto was the best thing we have to fend off the highest PvE nodes and actually complete the DDQ. Certainly the combo isn't 100% dead but the difference between 3 and 5 blue is huge and it will definitely make the game a whole lot harder. I'm sure it's been said somewhere in these 24 pages that I didn't bother to read but wow - that is a terrible nerf to newer players.

Unknown

This is awful. I have no idea how to play. I just tried only 2stars on The Hunt - not the classic magneto/storm/hawkeye, and it's still possible to play through, but scaling STILL goes up to crazy +300's. My 3 stars cannot handle that scaling. If one single goon count down goes-off its a team-wipe.

Killing Magneto has me completely dumb-founded. He was the ****-pin keeping many people playing through all your other awful descions.

And all because you wanted to release Xavier with a weird new passive.

Guess what would've been better:
Not designing Xavier's fun-ruining passive.

Cannot believe a game has made me feel "down", but this is just total sucks. Not fun.

Unknown

I really do not see how the wininfinite combo was game-breaking or bad for the developers.
1. It was still likely you needed to buy the mystique covers.
2. It's a weak team, slow team, in no way affecting PVP.
3. Still requires iso to win, therefore using impedes roster leveling and thus increases iso purchases (probably )

Or am I missing something?

fmftint

I haven't seen this mentioned but I think the real reason for the MNM nerf was to restrict Prof X's blue to luck. Winfinite on its own is terribly slow, throw in a passive that does 1k/match5, that's when things become broken

tanis3303

What about black widow? By placing 6 greens, I can usually make 3 match-5s. You're gonna tell me that's not gonna be an exploit? F-it, let's nerf her too!

KrazyKeylime

4* are suppose to dominate 3* just like 3* dominate 2* like 2* dominate 1*. The only problem now is that only xforce can do it now and none of the other 4* can compete cause they were designed to be buff 3* only wolverine and and 4 thor had useful game impacting move for less then 10, thor blue stun and charge tile generation and xforce high damage and board shake. oh what star lord red.. nope try again 2 move count down timer. the only other one is the dancing dino and his damage abilities don't compare with 7 ap, if it was 5 maybe but not 7. instead of nerfing 4 thor they should of buffed 4* It took me 5 min max looking at the current state of the 4* to come up with some fixes.

fix nick fury- yellow remove the other Ap requirements, blue leave, purple reduce cost to 10, increase Health for infinity serum in blood 12000 max

fix elektra- strongest color change to black- purple cost 5 start steal 2 for 2 scale up damage 5 cover steal 3,for black auto generate 1 trap per turn. scale up damage at 3 covers can have up to 2, 5 covers can have up to 3; 2/3 current damage for trigger ie max 500-600 damage, red cost reduced to 5

Fix starlord- purple reduce cost to 7 or leave at 10 but does team damage, yellow leave or add minor protect effect on count down time, red split damage 2/3 on cast, 1/3 on tile becomes team damage

fix IW - yellow passive generate a yellow invisibility tile that grants invisiblity to her, cost 7 yellow place a shield around target ally that blocks scaling 2000( maybe more) damage max; collapse of shield deals max 500 damage to all other visible characters , blue 7ap 1 force bubble with each cover reduce by 1 max 7( maybe 9) force bubble, green 9 shatter random force bubble dealing max 450 max to all non-invisible units destroying 4 tiles around the force bubble if a another force bubble is destroyed it does the same thing; each cover destroys an additional tile around force bubbles.

Fix dino pink remove,add ravenous hunger passive offers 30%(50% @ 5 covers) for ability to retrigger for 30%(50% @ 5 covers) current damage and destroy 1 tile (each cover, max 5) every time one of his abilities has abilities is cast/triggered

fix 4 thor un-nerf
fix xforce if still op

Unknown

tanis3303 wrote:

What about black widow? By placing 6 greens, I can usually make 3 match-5s. You're gonna tell me that's not gonna be an exploit? F-it, let's nerf her too!

Oh, BWGS nerf will happen. But it will be awhile. Not nearly as many people have her covers as NMags or Mystique equivalent. So the advantages of, ahem, Deceptive Tactics will be allowed to linger for awhile while players seek out and buy Deceptive Tactics covers (based on the advantage they offer). Then when fully covered Deceptive Tactics becomes ubiquitous, Devs will say "whoops" we never realized that advantage existed and now we're going to NERF. But don't worry, next week we are releasing a shiney new 4-star Nightcrawler and he has the new "it" unbalanced power.

Unknown

I like how the topic implies fun and exciting new changes, but mostly just lessens characters that people spent a lot of time and money on.

If D3 screws up and makes a character too powerful, they should reimburse you when they correct their mistake. It feels like they can just make an unbeatable character, collect the cash, take that character away, and repeat. Pretty shady.

Unknown

+1 to the dev hate party. Leave mags alone.