Coming Soon: Character Updates!

mohio

wymtime wrote:

I think a lot of people are over reacting to the 4thor Nerf. The big effect is on smite which now will do 7600 damage after 1 blue instead of 12k damage. That is still a huge amount of damage and her Healy is stupid high. She will continue to pair with Xforce as always.
For IF creating 7 black on the board for 5 ap is still really good. 9 was just crazy. It was lightning strike without the damage, and lightning strike is mainly to set up COTS. I th no IF is stil a top 3* character.
MNM- sad but needed
Mystique- confusing as you can get 7 black for 5 AP but to change 9 tiles to black and purple you need 10?
Finally Rags. I am glad for the update bu I am kind of disappointed. I was hoping to see something really cool, but his green does self damage, and his blue is meh. i am kind of interested to know how he looked when ice said he was way too over powered. Was he originally charging 10 tiles? Was his green based off his old health doing 4k damage? It wil be nice if he is a true healer, and his charge tiles will help green users, but I was hoping for a little more. Doom, and Loki became a lot more playable with there 3rd ability while Rags feels better, but worse.

Totally agree on 4hor changes. Smite is where the nerf is hit most. I could live with 5 charge tiles and a 3 turn stun so it's harder to extend the stun lock, but smite should really still do ~10k after surge. Something like 6k base and 800 per charge seems like a decent balance if they're going to be overly cautious with charge tiles. It's really taken the fun out of using her for me (I suppose that still remains to be seen, but that's my expectation).

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Arondite wrote:

You said red's base damage is bad but 4K for 10 is anything but bad.

She's still the second best character in the game. D3 went a bit harder on her than I would've, but even I can admit she needed something.

No, 4k for 10 is "somewhat good" but it's miles from "OMG OMG THIS POWER OMG".

IF 5 AP, 4113 damage 822.6 damage per AP (balanced slightly by the fact it's more like 10 AP because you need 12 black)
L.Thor 14 AP, 9036 damage, 645.43 damage per AP
Starlord 10 AP, 9326 damage, 932.6 damage per AP (balanced slightly by being a placeable CD that goes of 90% of the time)
Starlord 8 AP, 6998 damage, 874.75 damage per AP (balanced slightly by being a random red CD that goes of probably 75% of the time)
X-Force 8 AP, approx 5,000 damage, 625 damage per AP
Nick Fury 10 AP 10,530 damage if enemy trips the trap, 1,053 damage per AP minimum damage 5,264 if you have to match all the traps yourself, 526.4 damage per AP


(a few other powers I am not going to look up right now)

Thor (Goddess of Thunder) 10 AP (or 19 AP with a lead in)
4025 damage, 402.5 damage per AP OR 7650 damage, 402.6 damage per AP.

So, clearly, 4* characters are intended to be damage dealers who have their wheelhouse power in the range of 600 damage per AP. Thor is about to go from being this to being not even close to this and much worse than several 3* choices.

As you can see, TGT is now WAAAAAY down the list of effective characters (behind Star Lord for pete sake), her biggest asset being shock absorbing bumpers in the form of 16k HP I guess. Also, it's plain to see Blue into Red is no longer a thing. Does not increase base damage per AP, the only reason to collect blue is if you really need to stun that guy. So, why not take that to it's logical conclusion and make Smite do the damage per AP the old Power Surge -> Smite combo had, (3049 + 12*725)/19 = 618 damage per AP baseline, only went up the more you used it thanks to more charge tiles.

I get you want to rebalance charge tiles and their speed output relative to power cost. Fine, take away the 12 charge tiles that was fueling most of Thor's damage, but ffs give some of that damage back. If they changed Smite's base damage to be 6100, plus 725 per charge tile (or even slightly more per charge tile, like 1025, so Smite and Power Surge -> Smite maintain similar damage to AP ratios, namely 600+ damage per AP) then this would feel less like a ritualistic murder of a beloved character whose cover sales have dropped off and more like a game balance tweak. Also, the main weapon against XF, who is the undisputed heavyweight champion of PVP, was to use a Power Smite against him and kill him off before he got rolling. Now we are left with nothing.

From another thread. Bottom line, TGT Smite needs a damage boost or TGT will be sidelined.

Scoregasms

Wow... what the... did you just... Oh No you Didn't... damn, I was wondering what all the Alliance chatter was all about, now that I read through all this, it makes sense. This is my first round of MPQ nerfing, but man, this is a pretty brutal list of nerfs.

Agree with others, 4hor Blue was an overreach, should be 7 or 8 charged tiles (5 is just... I don't even want to say it just for it to be autocorrected), but why did you also reduce it to a 3-turn stun? For PVE, this has come in clutch for me on more than one occasion, but if you're significantly reducing the damage output, not changing the AP requirement, why ALSO reduce the stun by 1 turn? Hmm, maybe I'm in the minority here, but that just seems like kicking a man who's already down on the ground.

I was never much of a winfinite user and I only just started using Iron Fist, so I'm not accustomed to anything yet with him to be really frustrated, but when you guys throw out nerfs, you go all out I guess. Never really had nor played with Ragnarok and based on these forum posts, I probably never will, lol.

Unknown

WHY DID THEY NERF MAG...he made the unbearable bearable...now the cheapest thing I can do is make Daken tank for black panther...sigh

Unknown

2* Mag is now useless. Thanks.

Noobulator

I think if people bought covers, and I mean cash money spenders, they should have option of getting HP back. A refund would be overboard but I doubt this will happen... Perhaps they won't make these changes to SheThor in full, but we will see...

GrumpySmurf1002

Full refunding any purchases for these characters made in the last 2 weeks or so seems like the right thing to do.

Demanding a refund after 6 months of using 4Thor, however, is a considerably weaker argument. The additional rewards she helped earn easily justifies that investment.

Changes are overall pretty meh. It does make me wish I had sold mHawkeye for the bonus way back when. Hopefully I can recoup that mistake with Mags/Rags sales.

Unknown

Kaze Koichi wrote:

2* Mag is now useless. Thanks.

Who knows maybe they'll make all characters equally useless...sigh....why nerf mag? no one cares about mag in PVP....fix xforce and **** 3*D3

Unknown

I bought covers for my Thor and Mystique which makes me sad.
Yesterday i bought purple covers for my Iron Fist, now its getting a nerf Im asking for a refund, it isn't what i paid for.
They certainly wont get my money again.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Full refunding any purchases for these characters made in the last 2 weeks or so seems like the right thing to do.

Demanding a refund after 6 months of using 4Thor, however, is a considerably weaker argument. The additional rewards she helped earn easily justifies that investment.

Changes are overall pretty meh. It does make me wish I had sold mHawkeye for the bonus way back when. Hopefully I can recoup that mistake with Mags/Rags sales.

I agree, there is some time period where full automated refund of is appropriate and I'm thinking 2 weeks is about right, although for TGT I could see going back maybe a month, and since IF didn't exist a month ago why not go back a month on all of them. Who bought MNM covers in the last month? Oh right, nobody did that.

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

Also, I didn't realize until now that Thunderclap will make blue tiles instead of green. I'm not sure how to read that one in a PvE context because on the one hand it means he'll basically never use Godlike Power unless you screw up royally, on the other hand it feeds Chemical Reaction when he's paired with Daken, which is almost all the time. On the other hand you won't have random green matches to create strike tiles for CR, and big cascades could lead to the AI using 8 AP for Lightning Rod instead of 5 for Daken to smack you. Judgment reserved in the grand scheme of things, but it definitely makes Ragnarok as a self-contained fighter worse.

You're forgetting Rags + 2 Sniper feeders.. Not everyone can reliably clear that node in 6 turns, less if there's a cascade.

I used to try to counter Ragnarok with Daken:
Ragnarok vs Daken... With him creating blue it's a little more interesting, but at the same time he's going to be matching blue, and he's creating less green. Ragnarok probably wins here.

Ragnarok + Daken - this combination is slightly weaker now, as Daken generally prefers Green generation to Blue generation. Also it'll be nice to have Ragnarok wasting Daken's blue on heals, and generating charged green for you to match.

Unknown

The Devs are absolute IDIOTS nerfing Thor Goddess. With the AI and the amount of colors they match a turn it's gonna ruin the gameplay. You finally get enough to use her red and now it's gonna be shi*. They have the AI match more red and yellow right after you charge so you can only use RED once then move 4-6 more times and get another red match. Rarely am I ever lucky enough to have red matches back to back or even within 1-3 moves. Way to ruin the game. My 7 max Thor Goddess's will be pretty much total garbage thanks to the DEV's stupidity and the crybaby 2 star players who shouldn't be facing max Thor Goddess, XF, "whoever else" in the highest brackets of the game. Screw you D3. I want a full refund of every ISO and HP I put into all LThor's. It wouldn't be so bad if D3 had adjusted the AI to make it fair/equal to most players moves. Getting 1 cascade of 15+ AP every 20 games isn't quite fair to us players. I think I may retire since they are ruining all well balanced characters. IF is slightly OP but 8 would be better. Magneto Classic shouldn't be touched. D3 has to "research" all the players before release to make sure they are balanced. But then after big sales numbers start to slow down they nerf them and they made a ton of $$$ for a shi**y character. D3 is the greediest gaming company I've every seen.

Unknown

Moral of the story; do not give these filthy rats another penny of your hard earned money.

Unknown

I think the 4hor changes look good, she's a lot less scary but still the second best character in the game. lol at the yellow nerf but it's not like that difference will affect anything ever, sooo

In a vacuum I like the cMags change but unfortunately in practice I think it means he just doesn't have a place on any teams, 3 or 2 star, anymore. It would have been nice if his other powers were boosted a bit to compensate.

Iron Fist looks balanced now, I think the auto-damage he gives makes him a bit on the overpowered side but not incredibly so.

I don't think the Mystique changes are good or necessary. If you need to tone it down, at the least keep it a 3-match ability.

I can't decide if the new "Thor-mirroring" aspect of Rags is cool or lame, but I really like the new Rags. His red was always a good ability and still is, and I think people are underestimating his new blue - I'm assuming it's fake healing, but it's fake healing on a character you want to be tanking and isn't incredibly overcosted - I foresee a lot of red and blue spam and the green isn't useless if the guy with the better green dies...

Noobulator

kthunder wrote:

Moral of the story; do not give these filthy rats another penny of your hard earned money.

My wallet is closed!

Noobulator

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Full refunding any purchases for these characters made in the last 2 weeks or so seems like the right thing to do.

Demanding a refund after 6 months of using 4Thor, however, is a considerably weaker argument. The additional rewards she helped earn easily justifies that investment.

Changes are overall pretty meh. It does make me wish I had sold mHawkeye for the bonus way back when. Hopefully I can recoup that mistake with Mags/Rags sales.

I hear your point, but if in the last month or so you dropped $100 bucks or whatever on SheThor covers, it's a tough pill to swallow. Especially if you have a less developed roster.

Unknown

To everyone that is comparing the AP to Damage ratio for XF and 4or, factor in the 3 turn stun and her 50% more HP.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

I think the 4hor changes look good, she's a lot less scary but still the second best character in the game. lol at the yellow nerf but it's not like that difference will affect anything ever, sooo

In a vacuum I like the cMags change but unfortunately in practice I think it means he just doesn't have a place on any teams, 3 or 2 star, anymore. It would have been nice if his other powers were boosted a bit to compensate.

Iron Fist looks balanced now, I think the auto-damage he gives makes him a bit on the overpowered side but not incredibly so.

I don't think the Mystique changes are good or necessary. If you need to tone it down, at the least keep it a 3-match ability.

I can't decide if the new "Thor-mirroring" aspect of Rags is cool or lame, but I really like the new Rags. His red was always a good ability and still is, and I think people are underestimating his new blue - I'm assuming it's fake healing, but it's fake healing on a character you want to be tanking and isn't incredibly overcosted - I foresee a lot of red and blue spam and the green isn't useless if the guy with the better green dies...

It's not useless, but it is overpriced. It's CtS lite for CtS cost, which is incredibly incredibly lame.

babinro

Rags
You realize he's a *** character right?

Thor does 4k+2k AOE. Deadpool and GSBW do 4k AoE, BP 3700 AOE. Why does rags green only do 2276 while damaging his allies? I get that it creates an board shake effect but I hardly feel that this added benefit is worth ~1500 AoE damage.

I like the idea of multiple characters generating charged tiles though. It could help to build combos in the future. I agree with the general response that this version of Rags looks to be even weaker than his prior level 140 version (on paper). Consider this a selfish win for PvE fans.

Thor
Here's the thing...I've been talking about nerfing Thor and creating a better balance of characters in the this game. I even posted a poll about it here:
http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24412
The results...an overwhelming majority want 4* to be superior to 3*

The Thor nerf takes the other approach...dropping her down to 3* tier (admittedly a good 3*).

Why should I spend 19 blue/red AP on a 3 turn stun and 7650 single target damage when Fury does over 10,000 for just 10 blue? XF dwarfs this with his surgical strike + whatever FREE followup you'll get from the AP. It's my guess that we'll be seeing an Iron Fist/XF PvP meta or possibly a return to the brief Fury/XF meta.

I'll stand by my initial suggested nerf which was to simply remove blue tiles from being chargeable and dropping her HP to something more manageable. As for commenting on the specific changes...

Smite:
Great change all around. The skill is more useful as a standalone skill and becomes somewhat less mandatory to combo with blue.

Striking Distance:
Why? Her old skill was already weak and didn't feel up to par with a 4* character. No changes were needed here...if anything, the base damage should have been buffed to 3000 or the base skill cost reduced to like 9AP. It's important to note that just because she COULD transform 5 tiles doesn't mean she actually DID transform that many. She rarely saw the optimum use out of this skill and now it's even worse.

Power Surge:
I applaud the stun reduction of one turn. 4 turns feels excessive given the speed of matches in general. I'll echo the opinion of many others here...dropping from 12 to 5 is complete overkill. I'll begrudgingly accept the forum 'consensus' that 8 tiles would feel like a better middle ground. Though I still firmly stand by my original suggested nerf for the character.

Iron Fist
Converts 7 tiles for only 5 purple AP? This skill is still absolutely INSANE. I get that this is a nerf but I used my IF at 7 tiles conversion and he was great. I don't agree with this nerf. The problem with this skill was one of AP cost more than anything else. I paid to win with my IF and ultimately bought his covers...I guess I'm glad to see he'll still be top tier in the game (for both 3* and 4*'s)

Mags/Mystique
I can't speak on these as I never had the build for winfinite. I'm strictly against anything that replicates the Patchneto era of winfinite boredom (be it in PvE or PvP) so I guess I'm happy.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

Power Surge - Old - 9 AP
Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky, summoning a lightning storm to shock and stagger her foes. Stuns the enemy for 1 turn and converts 3 random Red, Blue, or Yellow basic tiles into Charged tiles.
Level 2 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 3 charged tiles.
Level 3 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 4 - Stuns for 3 turns. Makes 5 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Stuns for 4 turns. Makes 12 charged tiles.

Power Surge - New - 9 AP
Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky, summoning a lightning storm to shock and stagger her foes. Stuns the enemy for 1 turn and converts 2 random Red, Blue, or Yellow basic tiles into Charged tiles.
Level 2 - Stuns for 1 turn. Makes 3 charged tiles.
Level 3 - Stuns for 1 turn. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 4 - Stuns for 2 turns. Makes 4 charged tiles.
Level 5 - Stuns for 3 turns. Makes 5 charged tiles.

Well, time for all the people who said that they'd quit the game if 4or was nerfed to quit the game.

I'm looking forward to the changes. maybe we'll have a balanced metagame now! Some of the nerfs seem a little off though: did 4or yellow really need to be changed?

They should quit and if they don't I'm sure the next round of nerfs will do it. Metagame will be better when more p2w players quit and the game is ran by mostly f2p players?
I mean really what are they saying?
Is it

(A)The game is only fun if you save iso and don't buy covers (B) Don't invest in this game because we will upset you later on (C) Were just making the game more even but we won't fix the characters that need buffs. No money to be made. (D) People on forums whined and this is their pacifier (E) I have majority covers of a character but you shouldn't buy them because if their worthy of being purchased, were going to nerf it.