Funbalanced

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Koolbiird wrote:

They are efficient and they have no hard counters. Introduce more characters with varying abilities to counter them. Instead, they nerf them. Nerfing isn't a solution, and I stand by my opinion. I have seen it too many times. OBW and Ares will be next on the complaint train. It's a never ending cycle.

There's no counters to Thor and Wolverine unless you specifically have an ability like 'does more damage on Thor and Wolverine'. Their abilities are extremely boring and simply do a ton of damage.

OBW is a huge liability on defense because she usually holds 3 dead colors on the team in the current enviornment (Thor and Wolverine have no common colors with her, and they're the characters you're most likely to see with her). She's not really much on offense without Wolverine's strike tiles propping her damage up.

Ares does good damage but is not likely to stick around for long. He's probably better for defense since he starts out with full health against every unique opponent, but on offense you'll quickly find using Sunder/Onslaught tends to lead to needing to use health packs too. He also doesn't even do more damage than Thor currently, despite rather significant drawbacks to his moves (compare their DC stats, Thor's damage skills are usually superior with the possible exception of green).

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Kyosokun wrote:

We have something like. It's called Daken. *shrugs* He's a soft counter, not a hard counter, but because Wolv is so fast, he's not effective.

Consider Daken has no activated moves, that's not exactly a good investment for someone who only slows down Wolverine while contributing almost nothing to your team.

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Phantron wrote:

Kyosokun wrote:

We have something like. It's called Daken. *shrugs* He's a soft counter, not a hard counter, but because Wolv is so fast, he's not effective.

Consider Daken has no activated moves, that's not exactly a good investment for someone who only slows down Wolverine while contributing almost nothing to your team.

He adds strike tiles at no AP cost. I think he could potentially make a good third, but he's hamstrung by his lower level, and the speed meta.

And thats why he's only a soft counter. He adds a drawback to wolverine, but because matches go so fast, he doesn't really slow anything down. Who cares about a few strike tiles when you can kill Daken in a couple turns?

Unknown

It would be very very very hard to mid players to compete with high 3* characters without Thor and Wolvie. There are no such posibility at all. Message is simple after nerfing them - go for 3*, buy covers and raise level of 3* - if not you will be in the 50-100 place in every bracket

PS : Funbalanced? ... don't think that would be fun for many players

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Polkio wrote:

It would be very very very hard to mid players to compete with high 3* characters without Thor and Wolvie. There are no such posibility at all. Message is simple after nerfing them - go for 3*, buy covers and raise level of 3* - if not you will be in the 50-100 place in every bracket

PS : Funbalanced? ... don't think that would be fun for many players

Totally agree.

It's not real fun until PVP is overhauled IMO.

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WilliamK99 wrote:

I am going to start whining about every character so everyone gets nerfed... I don't care either way but the more they attempt to "balance" the game, the worse it seems to be getting...

I disagree completely. I run the thorverine, only because it's the strongest 2* option. I love the idea of balancing out all the characters.

Unknown

I think people are being premature on their reaction to these nerfs. They could simply just be removing Thor's ability to generate tiles and increasing Wolverine's cost for his strike tiles. Without effecting any of the base damage values.

Both of those things make them less effective, but they would still (sadly) be two of the strongest 2 star characters you can get.

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Toxicadam wrote:

I think people are being premature on their reaction to these nerfs. They could simply just be removing Thor's ability to generate tiles and increasing Wolverine's cost for his strike tiles. Without effecting any of the base damage values.

Both of those things make them less effective, but they would still (sadly) be two of the strongest 2 star characters you can get.

Personally I would rather see Thor's damage go down than they remove his tile generation. I think the whole "one skill builds towards the next" mechanic is what makes him interesting. If he just has 3 direct damage abilities that don't do anything else I would consider him the most boring character in the game

Unknown

Daken is a great transition hero. He promotes balanced progression imo. Thor and Wolverine you can just end up using them forever because why not. It takes a really long time for the few 3-stars who can even potentially be better than them to be worth replacing them.

And I disagree that Thor/Wolvie are needed for top45 placement. Top5 may be out of the equation, but top45 is certainly doable.

Unknown

Here's my 2 cents. I don't mind rebalancing character. I think it will add diversity and be more competitive. Where I do have an issue is the quest aspect when you run up against the ridiculously buffed level 240 people and you have no abilities. There is no way a team of Bullseye, Venom and Moonstone should whoop up on a maxed Thor, Punisher and Wolverine.

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Phantron wrote:

Kyosokun wrote:

We have something like. It's called Daken. *shrugs* He's a soft counter, not a hard counter, but because Wolv is so fast, he's not effective.

Consider Daken has no activated moves, that's not exactly a good investment for someone who only slows down Wolverine while contributing almost nothing to your team.

Daken actually counts as a slight counter to Wolverine and Doom. He spams his Strike tiles on every Green match. This can actually lock Wolverine out, since Wolvie needs basic reds for his Green to work. A high-level Doom faces the same problem: by the time he farms enough black to fire, there may only bee one or two red tiles free because Daken is squatting on them.

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ihearthawthats wrote:

And I disagree that Thor/Wolvie are needed for top45 placement. Top5 may be out of the equation, but top45 is certainly doable.

Without decent 3* and without such good 2* like Thor and Wolvie maybe top 45 could be doable but it would be hard as hell. In 1* and 2* there are no characters which could kill quickly and compete with 3*

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kevind722 wrote:

Here's my 2 cents. I don't mind rebalancing character. I think it will add diversity and be more competitive. Where I do have an issue is the quest aspect when you run up against the ridiculously buffed level 240 people and you have no abilities. There is no way a team of Bullseye, Venom and Moonstone should whoop up on a maxed Thor, Punisher and Wolverine.

Dwarven Vow # 7, Justice and love will always win.

For some reason villains are the worst characters. Instead of nerfing Thor and Wolverine make the villains viable. I will love to see a Venom that does something.

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Polkio wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

And I disagree that Thor/Wolvie are needed for top45 placement. Top5 may be out of the equation, but top45 is certainly doable.

Without decent 3* and without such good 2* like Thor and Wolvie maybe top 45 could be doable but it would be hard as hell. In 1* and 2* there are no characters which could kill quickly and compete with 3*

That assumes the premise that top 45 is filled by Spidey/Mags in the majority. I believe Thor/Wolvie is currently the majority.

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ihearthawthats wrote:

Polkio wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

And I disagree that Thor/Wolvie are needed for top45 placement. Top5 may be out of the equation, but top45 is certainly doable.

Without decent 3* and without such good 2* like Thor and Wolvie maybe top 45 could be doable but it would be hard as hell. In 1* and 2* there are no characters which could kill quickly and compete with 3*

That assumes the premise that top 45 is filled by Spidey/Mags in the majority. I believe Thor/Wolvie is currently the majority.

Yes you are correct that without them weaker teams will be higher in rank but NOW without them top 45 could be hard

mooken

Phantron wrote:

Making everyone stronger except 2 guys is no different from nerfing the 2 guys, and it's easier to nerf the 2 guys rather than hoping you buffed everyone else exactly right so that you didn't create any new problems.

Not just that -- buffing all characters means that PvP matches will become quicker, more efficient matches, with the active player taking minimal damage (think stun-locking or 5-turn finished).
Nerfing the stronger characters capable of 5-turn games, will increase your average match to 10+ turns, during which you -will- take damage, and increase the use of health packs. I imagine D3P has been tracking and using "average matches before health pack is used" as a metric.

Longer matches, more time spent on the game, less rewards given compared to the same amount of game-time spent -- I can see where it makes far more business sense to nerf instead of buff.

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adamLmpq wrote:

Personally I would rather see Thor's damage go down than they remove his tile generation. I think the whole "one skill builds towards the next" mechanic is what makes him interesting. If he just has 3 direct damage abilities that don't do anything else I would consider him the most boring character in the game

Unfortunately we have a system that routinely buffs characters and encourages people to use them. Those buffs cause them to have HP totals well into the 10 thousands. So putting as much damage on an opponent in the least amount of turns possible will always be the greatest asset a character could have.

When you start leaving that aspect (damage) up to chance, you greatly decrease their reliability and effectiveness.

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ihearthawthats wrote:

Garwalker wrote:

Not really sure why the need to nerf both characters [...] The reason they are overused is because they are the two best two star characters.

I think you just answered your own question.

So when Ares and BWO are the two most popular , are they next to be nerfed? Nerfing popular characters probably isn't the answer. Instead look at ways to upgrade the other 10 characters and so that they are compelling to use.

Unknown

Koolbiird wrote:

Nerfing characters has NEVER improved a game. I've been gaming for decades and nerfs only alienate gamers. Human beings thrive off of consistency and choice.

Never? Nerfing has improved many games. I play a lot of FPS and with the release of a new title there are always weapons/abilities that are overpowered. The community catches on to this and within a week 80% of the players are running around with the exact same weapon/ability. The game has over 50 choices of weapons/abilities but if you want to be competitive you pretty much have to use the over-powered weapon/ability that everyone else is. Once the developers recognize this issue they nerf the weapon/ability. In the gaming world the search for the most powerful combo continues and people start using different weapons/abilities.

There is a reason game designers produce games with so many different choices. People like changing the routine up a bit. Would you really play this game for more than a few months if every team (including yours) consisted of Rag/Thor/wolverine--or some variation of that? There is a reason the developers made a game with so many different characters.

Kiamodo

These two characters have two problems: they are good and easy to get. I think the devs are trying to convert casual players into paying for characters. If people can win without paying then it hurts the bottom line. Make it so people have to buy those 100 hp a day coins at least to move into the 3* level. I understand this and makes sense if that is their endstate.