*** Cyclops (Uncanny X-Men) ***

Phaserhawk

The_Valeyard wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash.

That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good?

I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most.

What?!

Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough.

Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck?

If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it.

Katai

Based on raw statistics, though, you're spending 2 covers on yellow for an average gain of 1.5 red.

Phaserhawk

The_Valeyard wrote:

People, yellow feeds red. Yellow makes red ap. Red is more affordable with his yellow ability feeding his red. They're the faster and more versatile abilities.

All that damage from black with red on the board is a mirage.

Odds are better I'll get Cyclops red off twice before you can get of his black with 10+ red on the board once.

You create maybe 2 more red tiles..maybe. So you can cast his red 10-20% faster, but you absolutely **** your black, and as you said you plan on running him in Heroics you are going to need all his damage skills. Yellow doesn't give enough bang in cascade to justify more than 3 at the cost of his black.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

The_Valeyard wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash.

That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good?

I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most.

What?!

Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough.

Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck?

If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it.

First, it activates at 10, not 9.

Second, odds are better I'll get Cyclops red off twice before you can get of his black with 10+ red on the board once.

Third, you'll be denying red on a lot more boards than black, so you'll already be collecting red or the AI will.

Fourth, You're counting on his yellow even at 3 not matching away any of the red on the board, and there being enough TUP's on the board as well.

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

It's a shame MPQ doesn't use recorded lines for moves other than grunts and yells, because Full Blast is crying out for a "BEHOLD!!"

Yes.....MVC2 Cyclops for real tho!

I dunno what you're talking about. Devil Dino brought me to tears with his poignant speech!

The_Valeyard wrote:

5 Yellow is a must.

It fuels red and fuels the black to make sure enough red is on the board to take the visor off.

The question is 5 black or 5 red?

Also, why do all the good black abilities seem to cost so much? Why can't Colossus Fast Ball or Cyclops black be 12 ap?

there's more problems w/ colossus than his fastball, but it seems like D3 makes the color of "YOU'RE DEAD".

----

So, is the stun "mandatory" for ? Or is that only if charged?

CrookedKnight

Only if charged. If there's not enough red on the board he just deals the base damage with no other consequence.

Unknown

Stun only if 10+ red on board and do not have 5 black covers.

If 9 or less red, no stun AFAIK.

Unknown

The_Valeyard wrote:

Stun only if 10+ red on board and do not have 5 black covers.

If 9 or less red, no stun AFAIK.

there's a stun on all cover levels...

CrookedKnight

Yes, but a one-turn stun that kicks in on your turn just means he can't use other powers that turn (so cast black after red and yellow) and can't tank tiles when you make your move. He'll be back in action the next time you get an action, because stuns count down at the start of your turn.

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

Yes, but a one-turn stun that kicks in on your turn just means he can't use other powers that turn (so cast black after red and yellow) and can't tank tiles when you make your move. He'll be back in action the next time you get an action, because stuns count down at the start of your turn.

Oh wow didn't even think of that!

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

The_Valeyard wrote:

Stun only if 10+ red on board and do not have 5 black covers.

If 9 or less red, no stun AFAIK.

there's a stun on all cover levels...

I know what the description says. However, I thought Colognoisseur said he played someone with a level 126 535 Cyclops in LR and black did not stun cyclops.

However, some one else says that it does stun one turn.

Therefore, I am not sure which is correct.

Colognoisseur

I was wrong about the no stun. There was a stun I think i just didn't see it. There is a player with a lvl126 535 playing cyke in lr.

Unknown

I'd still go 5/5/3 after seeing these numbers. I was fine with a 3k red but 4300 cemented that for me. Love this guy already.

turul

535 for all-purpose, 355 for generating red for other heroes, 553 for chaining yellow to red and use black of other hero (XF)

inEden

Love his red. His black looks decent too. But as I have XF and BP I won't be using his black. I like fast games and blowing up the AI. Getting 13AP of the same color to kill 1 character is too slow. Even if XF wasn't in the game I'd still find it too slow.

Maybe it is better in actual games seeing as how more experienced players than I love it. But I like 5 in yellow. The more of a single color I can eliminate from the board the better.

5/5/3 all the way for me.

NorthernPolarity

For veterans, I think 5/3/5 is the way to go to optimize for heroics. 3->5 yellow isn't a huge difference whereas 3->5 the other two are. I guess there's the obligatory 5/5/3 if you have XF or 3/5/5 if you have GT but not XF and are planning on running Cyclops with them. If you have BOTH XF and GT, then lets not kid ourselves: Loki is far better as the third for these two than cyclops will ever be, so 5 yellow is irrelevant in this team composition. The only time you're probably using Cyclops is in heroics anyways, and there 5/3/5 seems far better.

Also note that since yellow is cheap, you might not actually have enough TU tiles on board to get the full effect after casting it once: the difference might matter even less considering that.

atomzed

NorthernPolarity wrote:

For veterans, I think 5/3/5 is the way to go to optimize for heroics. 3->5 yellow isn't a huge difference whereas 3->5 the other two are. I guess there's the obligatory 5/5/3 if you have XF or 3/5/5 if you have GT but not XF and are planning on running Cyclops with them. If you have BOTH XF and GT, then lets not kid ourselves: Loki is far better as the third for these two than cyclops will ever be, so 5 yellow is irrelevant in this team composition. The only time you're probably using Cyclops is in heroics anyways, and there 5/3/5 seems far better.

Also note that since yellow is cheap, you might not actually have enough TU tiles on board to get the full effect after casting it once: the difference might matter even less considering that.

Np, do you have the percentage of cascades comparing 3 yellow and 5 yellow? I always thought that your statistics help me to assess which is the best build.

notamutant

inEden wrote:

Love his red. His black looks decent too. But as I have XF and BP I won't be using his black. I like fast games and blowing up the AI. Getting 13AP of the same color to kill 1 character is too slow. Even if XF wasn't in the game I'd still find it too slow.

Maybe it is better in actual games seeing as how more experienced players than I love it. But I like 5 in yellow. The more of a single color I can eliminate from the board the better.

5/5/3 all the way for me.

Something to consider is that Cyclops and XForce might be the new team to beat Xthor for people that don't have Thoress yet. Save up yellow until you have enough for SS on Xforce, then use yellow and SS and BOOM! Mega damage. Can easily get an extra 1k damage out of yellow into SS, and then you can go right into Cyclops red. Should insta kill Xforce and make Thoress useless.

Unknown

I could see either 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 being the optimal build.

5/5/3 is obvious because you want to get as many reds off as possible so 5 yellow is attractive. And black has a super high price in a very competitive color.

But on the other hand, if you don't have a better black option, it is an extremely powerful ability. And from 3 to 5, yellow changes very little.

But 5 red is just about imperative because of its synergy with yellow.

3/5/5 would work if you're pairing him with 4hor. But...why are you doing that?

Just my first impressions.

Unknown

Not seeing why you wouldn't have 5 in his yellow because his red/black are nothing special compared to existing abilities so unless you have nobody else but happen to have a maxed Cyclops you might as well go for the configuration that is most likely to be able to contribute via support abilities. A 5 match move that can instant kill someone isn't really all that great but it's at least playable. The red's damage seems slightly too high for his HP tier (only loses to Fireball and Star Spangled Avenger (which seems to be a huge aberration compared to any ability in terms of damage per AP)) but is certainly not enough to be considered overpowered. Other than that his yellow is going to just further limit the number of color conversion abilities in the game before yet another infinite loop is reached, I think he's pretty solid but that also means he doesn't do anything even existing 3*s can already do. In terms of solid 3* character without a drawback he's still not going to approach Black Panther or Thor, and sure both of those guys are probably overpowered but that's the reality you have to deal with and that's before even considering the 4*s. In terms of 3*, he loses to Thor and Black Panther, and probably Patch/Daken just because true healing makes the world go round. If you have none of those guys, he could be a decent option.