Phantron wrote: Not seeing why you wouldn't have 5 in his yellow because his red/black are nothing special compared to existing abilities so unless you have nobody else but happen to have a maxed Cyclops you might as well go for the configuration that is most likely to be able to contribute via support abilities. A 5 match move that can instant kill someone isn't really all that great but it's at least playable. The red's damage seems slightly too high for his HP tier (only loses to Fireball and Star Spangled Avenger (which seems to be a huge aberration compared to any ability in terms of damage per AP)) but is certainly not enough to be considered overpowered. Other than that his yellow is going to just further limit the number of color conversion abilities in the game before yet another infinite loop is reached, I think he's pretty solid but that also means he doesn't do anything even existing 3*s can already do. In terms of solid 3* character without a drawback he's still not going to approach Black Panther or Thor, and sure both of those guys are probably overpowered but that's the reality you have to deal with and that's before even considering the 4*s. In terms of 3*, he loses to Thor and Black Panther, and probably Patch/Daken just because true healing makes the world go round. If you have none of those guys, he could be a decent option.
atomzed wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: For veterans, I think 5/3/5 is the way to go to optimize for heroics. 3->5 yellow isn't a huge difference whereas 3->5 the other two are. I guess there's the obligatory 5/5/3 if you have XF or 3/5/5 if you have GT but not XF and are planning on running Cyclops with them. If you have BOTH XF and GT, then lets not kid ourselves: Loki is far better as the third for these two than cyclops will ever be, so 5 yellow is irrelevant in this team composition. The only time you're probably using Cyclops is in heroics anyways, and there 5/3/5 seems far better. Also note that since yellow is cheap, you might not actually have enough TU tiles on board to get the full effect after casting it once: the difference might matter even less considering that. Np, do you have the percentage of cascades comparing 3 yellow and 5 yellow? I always thought that your statistics help me to assess which is the best build.
NorthernPolarity wrote: For veterans, I think 5/3/5 is the way to go to optimize for heroics. 3->5 yellow isn't a huge difference whereas 3->5 the other two are. I guess there's the obligatory 5/5/3 if you have XF or 3/5/5 if you have GT but not XF and are planning on running Cyclops with them. If you have BOTH XF and GT, then lets not kid ourselves: Loki is far better as the third for these two than cyclops will ever be, so 5 yellow is irrelevant in this team composition. The only time you're probably using Cyclops is in heroics anyways, and there 5/3/5 seems far better. Also note that since yellow is cheap, you might not actually have enough TU tiles on board to get the full effect after casting it once: the difference might matter even less considering that.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Doom level 1-3 has the same percentages, just swap the colors around. I'll probably add the cascade chance for destroying the row at some point later: swamped with work right now.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Phantron wrote: Not seeing why you wouldn't have 5 in his yellow because his red/black are nothing special compared to existing abilities so unless you have nobody else but happen to have a maxed Cyclops you might as well go for the configuration that is most likely to be able to contribute via support abilities. A 5 match move that can instant kill someone isn't really all that great but it's at least playable. The red's damage seems slightly too high for his HP tier (only loses to Fireball and Star Spangled Avenger (which seems to be a huge aberration compared to any ability in terms of damage per AP)) but is certainly not enough to be considered overpowered. Other than that his yellow is going to just further limit the number of color conversion abilities in the game before yet another infinite loop is reached, I think he's pretty solid but that also means he doesn't do anything even existing 3*s can already do. In terms of solid 3* character without a drawback he's still not going to approach Black Panther or Thor, and sure both of those guys are probably overpowered but that's the reality you have to deal with and that's before even considering the 4*s. In terms of 3*, he loses to Thor and Black Panther, and probably Patch/Daken just because true healing makes the world go round. If you have none of those guys, he could be a decent option. But Phantron, XF exists so everyone else is irrelevant. Why are we bothering to optimize for any other format except Heroics? Loki > Cyclops, and XF / GT / Loki covers literally every other format in the game. The only format where Cyclops is actually playable and not a glorified punching bag for XF / GT is in Heroics, in which case you want to build him such that he can carry you damage wise, hence 5/3/5.
Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: But Phantron, XF exists so everyone else is irrelevant. Why are we bothering to optimize for any other format except Heroics? Loki > Cyclops, and XF / GT / Loki covers literally every other format in the game. The only format where Cyclops is actually playable and not a glorified punching bag for XF / GT is in Heroics, in which case you want to build him such that he can carry you damage wise, hence 5/3/5. I don't know why you always make this straw man comparison against X Force (which is a perfectly valid one except I didn't even argue that here) when I mentioned that Thor (3*) and Black Panther are straight up better than him in 3*. So are Patch/Daken after factoring in how overwhelmingly powerful true healing is. In 5/3/5 he's still straight up worse than any of those 4 aforementioned characters.
NorthernPolarity wrote: But Phantron, XF exists so everyone else is irrelevant. Why are we bothering to optimize for any other format except Heroics? Loki > Cyclops, and XF / GT / Loki covers literally every other format in the game. The only format where Cyclops is actually playable and not a glorified punching bag for XF / GT is in Heroics, in which case you want to build him such that he can carry you damage wise, hence 5/3/5.
atomzed wrote: Phantron wrote: But Phantron, XF exists so everyone else is irrelevant. Why are we bothering to optimize for any other format except Heroics? Loki > Cyclops, and XF / GT / Loki covers literally every other format in the game. The only format where Cyclops is actually playable and not a glorified punching bag for XF / GT is in Heroics, in which case you want to build him such that he can carry you damage wise, hence 5/3/5. I don't know why you always make this straw man comparison against X Force (which is a perfectly valid one except I didn't even argue that here) when I mentioned that Thor (3*) and Black Panther are straight up better than him in 3*. So are Patch/Daken after factoring in how overwhelmingly powerful true healing is. In 5/3/5 he's still straight up worse than any of those 4 aforementioned characters.
Phantron wrote: But Phantron, XF exists so everyone else is irrelevant. Why are we bothering to optimize for any other format except Heroics? Loki > Cyclops, and XF / GT / Loki covers literally every other format in the game. The only format where Cyclops is actually playable and not a glorified punching bag for XF / GT is in Heroics, in which case you want to build him such that he can carry you damage wise, hence 5/3/5.
Mikaveus wrote: TazFTW wrote: ^Boo! Cat Beast. Boo! Better than the latest evolution of Hank?
TazFTW wrote: ^Boo! Cat Beast. Boo!
Polares wrote: I am having a though decision deciding which is the best option, I kinda like the 5/3/5 configuration, but maybe 5 in yellow could be great in the future. Someone has considered the 5/4/4 option? I converts 7 tiles and does 5855 with 1 turn stun, a tile less and 2350 less max damage. It is a big reduction in black damage but at least you get the 1 turn stun and its usable. It's not ideal, but maybe it is a good compromise...
The_Valeyard wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash. That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most. What?! Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough. Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck? If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it. First, it activates at 10, not 9. Second, odds are better I'll get Cyclops red off twice before you can get of his black with 10+ red on the board once. Third, you'll be denying red on a lot more boards than black, so you'll already be collecting red or the AI will. Fourth, You're counting on his yellow even at 3 not matching away any of the red on the board, and there being enough TUP's on the board as well.
Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash. That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most. What?! Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough. Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck? If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it.
The_Valeyard wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash. That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most.
CrookedKnight wrote: Disagree. Five yellow means a bigger chance of cascade, which means potentially less red on the board when all is said and done. You get 2 more red tiles added to the board but also a 20% increase in the chance that three or more will be matched away. 5 yellow is better as a red generator but as an enabler for his black my knee-jerk assessment is that it's a wash.
El Satanno wrote: This is all fine and good, but what about those of us that don't have a subscription to Marvel's online comic service? lokiagentofhotness wrote: In other news, Cyclops remains the worst. I like Cyclops. Loki is the worst!
lokiagentofhotness wrote: In other news, Cyclops remains the worst.
ale kalel 1981 wrote: Yellow power: is it possibile that even if i had the number of Tiles required the power didn't work??
Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most. What?! Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough. Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck? If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it. First, it activates at 10, not 9. Second, odds are better I'll get Cyclops red off twice before you can get of his black with 10+ red on the board once. Third, you'll be denying red on a lot more boards than black, so you'll already be collecting red or the AI will. Fourth, You're counting on his yellow even at 3 not matching away any of the red on the board, and there being enough TUP's on the board as well. First---Oops Second--You generate 1 more red AP from a 5 covered yellow vs 3 Third--why am I denying red and not black? If I'm in PvE I'll deny who I'm playing against which is usually random, and in Cyclops PvP am I going to want to leave black so X-Force can surgical strike and steal red so I can then die to Cyclops or 4hor? Fourth--Lets assume there are 9 tiles of everything out. You create your 8 I create my 6. cascades match away 2.5 red you match away 3.5 red. That leaves me with 12.5 red on the board, that leaves you with 13.5. Using Doom Stats you would see Lvl 3 yellow--51% cascade, avg 4.2 tiles desroyed with 2.5 being red Lvl 5 yellow--62% cascade, avg 6 tiles destroyed with 3.5 being red You are correct you will be able to cast your red twice before I can 10% of the time. The other 90% of the time they would both be the same. So 90% of the time I will be doing 2400(if not enough red) or 7173(if enough red) more dmg than a 5/5/3 build and 10% of the time you would be doing 1393(if enough red) or 1883(if not enough red) by casting you red twice. I get what you are saying, and you do make good arguements, but going 5/5/3 and saying you will do more damage and get a 2 to 1 ratio of red is like having your retirement plan be winning the lottery, sure it's possible but not very likely. To me the reward of going 5/5/3 is not worth the risk of losing the black damage, and since he'll be a PvE or his PvP specialist I'm not gimping that damage.
The_Valeyard wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most. What?! Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough. Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck? If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it. First, it activates at 10, not 9. Second, odds are better I'll get Cyclops red off twice before you can get of his black with 10+ red on the board once. Third, you'll be denying red on a lot more boards than black, so you'll already be collecting red or the AI will. Fourth, You're counting on his yellow even at 3 not matching away any of the red on the board, and there being enough TUP's on the board as well.
Phaserhawk wrote: The_Valeyard wrote: That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most. What?! Seriously you need only 3 red on the board to activate black off of yellow. It activates off of 9 red, that's literally the average of any given tile on the board at any given time. Yellow could create 3 red tiles and it would more than likely be enough. Your only arguement could be after using a Surgical Strike you stole red, thus you need yellow to get the red back on the board, but then why would you need black when you Surgical Struck? If all you are trying to do is get enough red on the board to activate his black to full potential, you really only need yellow to probably create 3-4 tiles and you would be more than safe enough to get it.
The_Valeyard wrote: That's the problem. You have to save and/or have all that red on the board for black to be good and that's after you collect 13 ap. If there aren't enough red on the board, how many turns do you want to have to wait to use the black for it to be good? I'm 5/5/3 all the way. That seems to be the best Heroic build which is where I'll probably rely on him the most.
Phantron wrote: Battleplan makes short work of any one particularly high HP character that isn't Hulk. Hulk is a strangely tough matchup for BP but it's not like you can actually lose to Hulk. If we're limited to just 3*s, only Thor has both high HP and is a significant threat at doing damage. Groot might be close with maxed blue but his covers are harder to get and the blue takes 1 more match and has a delay before it can be deployed, while Battleplan is immediate.
atomzed wrote: Phantron wrote: Battleplan makes short work of any one particularly high HP character that isn't Hulk. Hulk is a strangely tough matchup for BP but it's not like you can actually lose to Hulk. If we're limited to just 3*s, only Thor has both high HP and is a significant threat at doing damage. Groot might be close with maxed blue but his covers are harder to get and the blue takes 1 more match and has a delay before it can be deployed, while Battleplan is immediate. So how do you (or rasinbman who down voted me) play BP? I genuinely want to know because I have difficulty using him even though I have him max. I try to go for black when I use him, but after I get his 12 black, I find that I can't kill off anyone, so I withhold the move. I then wait for 9 yellow, which gives the opponent more chance to get cascades. Do you spread your match dmg across the characters? To soften them up for the ROTP? Or you pair him up with a low ap character to soften the character? I really never been able to maximise my use of him. It's a shame. BTT, after using the loaner Cyclops, I begin to like 553 more.It's straight forward to play, and the AI will not misplay it on defence. I probably go with 553, like 8 months later when I can respec....