Gauntlet, Are you kidding me?

Unknown

You can't just put something there and say 'everyone else just pretend it's not there because you won't get it anyway'. Take airline fare as an example. You see that people on coach do complain when they hear the 1st class guy gets even newer stuff. Now, in this case, since the guys on the 1st class pay way more than the guys on the coach, the company here can figure that it's okay to have a few guys whining and maybe even leave the airline as long as they make an extra $10K per trip sale on a single guy who took the 1st class fare. This is not in the case in MPQ. This game's questionable financial model at the high end means you're not really getting much out of the guys who are at the top because they've already spent the money and have no need to spend significant extra money in any particular event.

grunth13

That is total ****. I just lost to the same node three times in a row and each time the level went up while mine stayed the same.

atomzed

Phantron wrote:

This game's questionable financial model at the high end means you're not really getting much out of the guys who are at the top because they've already spent the money and have no need to spend significant extra money in any particular event.

So you also feel that this is a cash grab move?

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

Phantron wrote:

This game's questionable financial model at the high end means you're not really getting much out of the guys who are at the top because they've already spent the money and have no need to spend significant extra money in any particular event.

So you also feel that this is a cash grab move?

No the problem is that it's not a cash grab move. In fact that's the problem with this game period. I do have faith that whatever money D3 makes isn't going 100% toward the coprorate jet so if they are successful in a cash grab move I'd think that bodes well for the long term health of the game. While the game's problem cannot be solved solely by money, it's hard to see how they can solved in the absence of money. The lack of new content, which is a common compliant, is certainly something that can be readily solved by having more money. I still maintain that it's hard to see this top 10 placement could've netted more than $100 of immediate investment and that's not worth the loss of goodwill at all. If they made $10K off this then sure you can say who cares about the whiners now we got money to hire another guy to work on new stuff. But I just don't see this kind of money coming out of this so I'd expect no significant change as a result of resources after this, so all you get is a lot of angry guys for very little monetary gain.

atomzed

Phantron wrote:

atomzed wrote:

Phantron wrote:

This game's questionable financial model at the high end means you're not really getting much out of the guys who are at the top because they've already spent the money and have no need to spend significant extra money in any particular event.

So you also feel that this is a cash grab move?

No the problem is that it's not a cash grab move. In fact that's the problem with this game period. I do have faith that whatever money D3 makes isn't going 100% toward the coprorate jet so if they are successful in a cash grab move I'd think that bodes well for the long term health of the game. While the game's problem cannot be solved solely by money, it's hard to see how they can solved in the absence of money. The lack of new content, which is a common compliant, is certainly something that can be readily solved by having more money. I still maintain that it's hard to see this top 10 placement could've netted more than $100 of immediate investment and that's not worth the loss of goodwill at all. If they made $10K off this then sure you can say who cares about the whiners now we got money to hire another guy to work on new stuff. But I just don't see this kind of money coming out of this so I'd expect no significant change as a result of resources after this, so all you get is a lot of angry guys for very little monetary gain.

That makes more sense now that you explain your perspective cos of even you feel that it's a cash grab then it's a lost cause.

Xenoberyll

It would have been nice to at least have a chance to win the speed run, but every bracked i joined had their top 10 filled already. Ah well...i'll just luck out with the standard tokens.

lukewin

I don't mind the change. I have beat both previous Gauntlets. I placed 16th in the first sub, after I was made aware of a fresh bracket. Wiping on one node didn't help. I finished 9th in the second sub, after I was made aware of a fresh bracket. If the trend continues, I should place 2nd in the third sub, after I am made aware of a fresh bracket.

Lloyd Christmas

I don't care if D3 wants to turn the gauntlet into a foot race, people don't have to compete in that aspect if they don't want to. The problem I have is that if you would like to compete in that aspect of the new gauntlet but you don't even get that choice because you enter into the bracket at #9965. Really!? The bracketing is ridiculous and makes no sense to me at all. If that's what you want to do with event then at least make it to where everyone has the ability to compete if they choose.

Xenoberyll

lukewin wrote:

... after I am made aware of a fresh bracket...

that sentence thereis the problem imho. D3P has stated they want to reduce the ammount of external coordination needed to win stuff, yet here we are.

Unknown

The Gauntlet is still non-competitive for almost all of us. You don't need to compete if you don't want to. For example last night I joined the second sub event and was lucky enough to be placed in a new bracket. I was ranked 15th and decided to take a look at the top10 leaderboard. It was full of veteran forumites. I have a transitioning roster (all 94-106 for pve scaling) and realized I can't compete with these guys no matter how hard I try. Hence I decided to keep the gauntlet non-competitive for myself and went to sleep ranked 15th without buying any health packs to try to finish it at night. If top10 can compete for it then by all means props to them cause speeding through the gauntlet isn't as easy as people might think. They'll be rewarded for their speed and that's really good for them. Even tho from the rosters of the top10 players, 3* covers are not what they are missing, but im sure they'll enjoy the ISO.

D3 decided to give out a HUGE (10 pack) reward and a VERY SMALL (recruit (100ISO) token) reward, which is where I find the problem lies. If there was a happy middle there then I'm sure people wouldn't be as angry as they are right now regarding the Gauntlet. I applaud D3 for trying to reward their players. I'll give them an A- for effort, but a C- for result.

At least we see them implementing changes to the game and still keeping them alive. Hopefully future changes keep on coming.

PS regarding the cash grab... It's a company trying to make money... Do any of you guys get mad at your bosses (or if youre the boss do you get mad at yourself) when they bring out new products? Even though in your eyes they might be useless, they still sell and at the end of the day D3 and MPQ are trying to make money. Let's just hope the more money they make, the nicer the game becomes.

Unknown

Koko81 wrote:

The Gauntlet is still non-competitive for almost all of us. You don't need to compete if you don't want to. For example last night I joined the second sub event and was lucky enough to be placed in a new bracket. I was ranked 15th and decided to take a look at the top10 leaderboard. It was full of veteran forumites. I have a transitioning roster (all 94-106 for pve scaling) and realized I can't compete with these guys no matter how hard I try. Hence I decided to keep the gauntlet non-competitive for myself and went to sleep ranked 15th without buying any health packs to try to finish it at night. If top10 can compete for it then by all means props to them cause speeding through the gauntlet isn't as easy as people might think. They'll be rewarded for their speed and that's really good for them. Even tho from the rosters of the top10 players, 3* covers are not what they are missing, but im sure they'll enjoy the ISO.

D3 decided to give out a HUGE (10 pack) reward and a VERY SMALL (recruit (100ISO) token) reward, which is where I find the problem lies. If there was a happy middle there then I'm sure people wouldn't be as angry as they are right now regarding the Gauntlet. I applaud D3 for trying to reward their players. I'll give them an A- for effort, but a C- for result.

At least we see them implementing changes to the game and still keeping them alive. Hopefully future changes keep on coming.

PS regarding the cash grab... It's a company trying to make money... Do any of you guys get mad at your bosses (or if youre the boss do you get mad at yourself) when they bring out new products? Even though in your eyes they might be useless, they still sell and at the end of the day D3 and MPQ are trying to make money. Let's just hope the more money they make, the nicer the game becomes.

But this isn't a new product. It is an existing product with an added competitve element to it with, as you said, a HUGE reward.

Non-competitve ideas and promises be damned.

Unknown

Square wrote:

PPPlaya wrote:

The idea is cute but all of those tenpacks are going to be won by 270 XForce 270 4hor.

Scaling. This is not how it will be.

Not true. Look at your t10. Mine is half vet's and half transitioning rosters just like normal PVE t10's.

Lidolas

My group of alliances had a lot of fun. We had a handful of people place top 10. I, on the other hand, still haven't completed the second stage. I agree with NP. The gauntlet is the same in spirit, there is just a speed run edition to keep it interesting for some. I understand the complaints of adding a competitive edge to the only non-competitive aspect of the game, but I don't think the change was large enough to justify all the wrath.

fight4thedream

evil panda wrote:

fight4thedream wrote:

i think how a player responds to the rewards system change in the Gauntlet boils down to two major factors: how competitive you are and how much you would like to see non-competitive content in the game. As someone who is both competitive and pushing hard for non-competitive play, this move is not a big surprise but it is also discouraging.

i totally understand where mags1587 is coming from. For me, pre-competitive Gauntlet was like a nice savory Italian meal that I could enjoy at my own leisure. First came the light and tasty appetizer, then the main dish, and finally the desert. Now it's become a food eating competition, where i try to stuff my face as quickly as i can to earn a lottery ticket that could win me a $100 gift card.

Sure, you will argue that most reasonable people will ignore the opportunity and enjoy their meal. And i don't disagree with you. But i know for a fact that there are at least 60 other people if not more, who were willing to stuff their mouths and bellies for a chance at that ticket and i'm willing to bet there were plenty more than that considering that it seems there were 2 brackets open initially.

i still don't get this point of view. i'm not picking on you personally F4TD, i just want to use your analogy to make this point:

i've been to restaurants where you sit down and they have this sign that says "eat this 4 pound burger/massive pancake stack in 1 hour and get it free". my reaction is "huh, that's cool," and then i proceed to order whatever i want and eat it at my leisure.

are people in this game so pathologically competitive that they just HAVE to take that challenge?? because this thread is the equivalent of me screaming at the waiter "TINYKITTY YOU AND YOUR TINYKITTY CHALLENGE!!! NOW I'M GOING TO GET INDIGESTION AND HEART DISEASE DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING ME EAT THIS HUGE BURGER IN 1 HOUR!!!"

no worries, EP, no offence takenﾞ☆⌒o(*^ｰﾟ)b

However, i don't know if your analogy actually fits the situation. The Gauntlet is not a time attack challenge, it is a speed run so a competitive food competition like Nathan's Hot Dog Eating contest would probably be the better analogy.

i'm not sure if anyone has pulled the "devs are making me play crazy" card in this thread but to keep the argument concise, let's consider the criticisms that have been lodged against the change:

*effectively takes the one non-competitive game event (excluding Prologue) and makes it competitive
*largely favors those that get an early start
*poor rewards distribution
*lack of communication in regards to the change and the rewards to be won
*poor start time (conflicted with last time slice of R&G event)
*cash grab

First, let's just dismiss the cash grab argument because it doesn't seem like this event was intended for that and even if it was, so what?

Now looking at the remaining criticisms, with the exceptions of the change to competitive and poor rewards distribution issues, i think we can all agree that those are legitimate complaints. If anyone feels otherwise, please do tell.

Which leaves us with two issues for debate:
Is Gauntlet now a competitive event?
Is the current rewards distribution for the event ideal?

Although i would like to tackle these two issues separately, i will acknowledge that the most prominent proponents of this change see them as being complements. It's important to understand this because their argument against why the Gauntlet is still essentially non-competitive hinges on the value and availability of the rewards offered. They argue that the addition of awards for Top 10 placement has not changed the event in a significant way (with the exception of giving a small bonus to the player base) because the rewards are not exceptional and the odds of winning such an event are very low.

But there in lies the the problem with such an argument. If the devs were to start releasing 4* covers in such a format, they would be crying foul. Also, just because i may choose not to play pVe or pVp competitively because i already have the character offered OR because i get stuck in a death bracket where i know i have no chance at top placement does not automatically make such events non-competitive.

Yes, you are free to play the Gauntlet just as you did before, just as i was free to play the last Rocket & Groot event for progression rewards and ISO but that does not somehow magically make the events non-competitive. Just go take a gander at the appropriately named The Gauntlet- Competitive Edition thread and see how many people are requesting bracket information. You may not be shooting for top prize but there are many others looking to take a shot at the opportunity (including yours truly).

So i believe we can put to rest the question of whether The Gauntlet has changed to a competitive event or not. As i mentioned in my previous post, this is disappointing for those that are hoping the game will incorporate more non-competitive content and they should voice their displeasure. The devs do listen to us so it is important for us to raise our concerns when the one glimmer of hope has been taken from us.

Having now established that yes, The Gauntlet is indeed a competitive event the question of reward structure comes into play. Honestly, if the devs would have just posted an announcement saying this was a test run for the reward structure as they are so fond of doing when they change things in the game, i would be hesitant to go into this topic but since nothing has been said i will just go ahead and be frank about it: for better or worse, this reward structure favors Top Tier players.

i know some people were hoping that scaling would win the day and deliver the 2*-3* transition players to the promised land but from my observations the only chance such players had was in the first sub. The second and third subs are clearly top tier player territory. i am not arguing that this is unreasonable, obviously it makes more sense for the stronger rosters to win out in the end but considering the 2-3* transition problem i just see this as another missed opportunity. i guess my position is that if they are going to make the Gauntlet into a competitive event, they might as well go all the way and offer a reward structure that disperses the rewards in a better fashion. i believe GothicKratos has the right idea (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23373&start=60#p293418 ).

NorthernPolarity is right that this change doesn't hurt anyone significantly; i don't think any of us calling for non-competitive events are rage quitting over this. It's just that this change came from left field and now we are once again without a non-competitive game mode so it stings. And as Phantron was arguing, it also adds so little to the overall health of the game that it seems more like a change made on a whim than an actual planned course of action.

Which reminds me of the concern brought up by Trisul in the Dev video Q&A:

Trisul wrote:

So, the team seems pretty agile, but one potential downside of agile teams is the lack of long-term vision, and I totally felt that when the guys were explaining their dev cycle.

I really hope they have a little more direction than a vague "what should we work on in the next 2 weeks?".

Original quote found here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22902#p288698

And finally, to address your last question, EP:

are people in this game so pathologically competitive that they just HAVE to take that challenge??

i think locked answered that question for you in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23407&start=20#p293951)

Side note: had a weird case of deja vu writing this lol

fight4thedream

*Geek ON* This thread totally reminds me of Marvel's Civil War for some reason.



i always enjoy watching NorthernPolarity and Phantron duke it out but this thread has certainly got a wide range of characters divided on the issue.
Although non-competitive game modes is one of the issues i am most passionate about i do respect and understand the NP team's position. Hopefully everything is all in good fun!

Speaking of issues i'm passionate about...doo-do-do~doo~do~doo♪ does whatever a spider can~♪
*Geek OFF*

DrStrange-616

My hat's off to transitioners who got top 10; I can't even finish the thing.

Phaserhawk

This is just par for the course. An interesting thought and idea just poorly implemented.

If completion covers are not affected by the reward system, meaning here are 3 **** 3*'s that everyone has because we are doing token pack's now, then I"m fine with the change. However the one glaring issue is this.....how the hell is this even competive when your bracket is already filled?

I'm assuming this is going to be the 'implement now fix later" approach. For information in that see

CD tiles from Goons and who controlls them
Shield Cooldown Mid Season
Shield Cooldown Progression rewards
Shield Cooldown shield status (still pending)
Cover Respec
Character rebalance via rotation
3 abilties for 3* characters (1 left)

I could go on and on, but in short D3 throws some good ideas out there but then takes forever to fix or balance the change they made. A character example is Sentry, this guy got nerfed to the ground so he's unplayable, he'll go out of rotation and then D3 will have time to rebalance. Now if he will get fixed when out of rotation, then it's the few instances where implement now fix later works

Unknown

The rewards are a joke, how do you even determine who places in the top ten as if you finish the event we all have the same amount of points? Is it a race to the finish, or those that completed the event with the least amount of moves? Seriously, if we have the same amount of points as the people in 1st -10th place, why should they have a 10pack reward and the rest of us get a single RT?

DrStrange-616

Monsoon wrote:

Is it a race to the finish...?

Yes.

Be one of the first 10 people to beat all missions...

Unknown

So basically another reward for those already with a ton of leveled 3/4*, and don't bother unless you jump into the game the second it becomes available. Brilliant.