Gauntlet, Are you kidding me?

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Or you know, maybe the developers aren't a bunch of idiots, and they implemented this feature because they were thought it was fun and were trying to give the more hardcore players a new and interesting way to play the gauntlet? Just because you hate the feature and think it's pointless doesn't mean that everyone else has the exact feeling about it.

Just because they're not idiots doesn't mean they can't do decisions that are stupid, or we would never have the AP banner in the first place where literally no one thought it was a good idea. Fun doesn't matter because they're a business. Something that's fun that causes them to lose money is a bad idea. All you need to do is compare the gains and losses.

Gains:
The 10 guys who placed top 10 may feel a bit better about the game, so +goodwill on 0.1% of the popuation
These guys may have spent a total of $100 in the process of getting top 10, though based on what people claim this is almost certainly not the case

Losses:
The guys finishing #11 to maybe around #20 is likely to feel worse about the game, so -goodwill on ~0.1% of the population.
The delusional guys that complain about everything will say this is an outrage because they're looking for a reason to hate the game, even if they were going to finish #715 out of 10000. I don't know know the population breakdown, but I'm pretty sure these guys account for a nontrivial percentage of the population. Now you're saying these guys are always looking for any excuse to get angry and that's true, but you don't have to give them a reason to get angry!
People who genuinely enjoyed the non competitive nature of The Gauntlet are certainly disappointed at the new direction.

So your comparison is:

0.1% of population +goodwill + possibly $100

versus

-goodwill from some % of population that is likely significantly greater than 0.1%.

And unless you think goodwill is so worthless that you can't even lose $100 from just the guys posting on this forum that complained already, it's hard to see how this can be beneficial.

Hulk11

To my point that this isn't hardcore. In wilderness survival, 3rd place has a 94 obw, 84 wolverine, and 15 or so characters in the 50's. Yep hardcore.

I see you say speedrunning now. Wish I had that roster now, the gem of speed right here. That DD buffed from 50 is uber wow.

Wait, no it's the single red cover DD level 40. SPEED. Sooo.. unless he did his duty and "bought his way" to that spot. I just say wow, and probably more wows after that.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Okay... replace the term "hardcore" with "players who think that speedrunning could be interesting, and have the necessary roster to do so?"

So someone like you, who is likely to immediately sell back what you win back, is going to be totally re-energized with this new feature that you and other 0.1% of the guys that placed top 10 is going to easily make up for just the complains already posted on this change? Because you're going to um, spend more money on this game since you were able to win a token that you never needed?

Player goodwill is not worth very much, but it's not this worthless. I see no reason to believe you or any other guy who finished in the top 10 is supposed to get revitalized in this game for getting a top 10, and I certainly see quite a few guys expressing their dislike. At best, the vast majority of the players do not care. They can also view it as a 'rich gets richer' deal for the wrong reason. Now I know you're going to say, 'but they shouldn't be angry because this prize is worthless to begin with', but you don't get to decide that for others even if it's true. There is certainly a very strong sentiment about how this game is too P2W and the new guy can never get anywhere, and you want to make a change that is going to give more ammunition to the fire?

Hulk11

[/quote] Okay... replace the term "hardcore" with "players who think that speedrunning could be interesting, and have the necessary roster to do so?"[/quote]

Good direction, but this is everyone who hates ap banners making their matches super slow. So, everyone who plays? What I mean is most everyone would want to get through their matches with some efficiency and pace, unless you like dying mid match or doing zero damage. Point of this is zero I believe, a little troll-y to me. After 10th we all get one standard, pretty troll move.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

Just because they're not idiots doesn't mean they can't do decisions that are stupid, or we would never have the AP banner in the first place where literally no one thought it was a good idea.

Remember all those "AI cheats threads" that pop up like twice a week? Those existed because newbies didn't realize the goon AP thing was a thing, so they implemented that to cater to those guys. It was obviously a terrible idea to release it without an option to disable it, but at least you could see where they were coming from: they implemented the feature so that newbies like that wouldn't waste customer service time with complaints that the AI was cheating.

Now, you are arguing that the developers added this feature SOLELY because they thought that it would make money, and when you consider the facts, it's obvious that this feature was NOT created with the intent to make money. There is absolutely zero reason to call this a cash grab for the reasons that I stated earlier, and doing so is basically a knee jerk reaction because no sane developer would think that this feature could make them enough money. Therefore, since I'm assuming that the developers are in fact sane and not a bunch of idiots, it's clear that their intent was something else, and the most obvious reason why they would add this feature is what I said earlier.

Phantron wrote:

The 10 guys who placed top 10 may feel a bit better about the game, so +goodwill on 0.1% of the popuation
These guys may have spent a total of $100 in the process of getting top 10, though based on what people claim this is almost certainly not the case

Losses:
The guys finishing #11 to maybe around #20 is likely to feel worse about the game, so -goodwill on ~0.1% of the population.
The delusional guys that complain about everything will say this is an outrage because they're looking for a reason to hate the game, even if they were going to finish #715 out of 10000. I don't know know the population breakdown, but I'm pretty sure these guys account for a nontrivial percentage of the population. Now you're saying these guys are always looking for any excuse to get angry and that's true, but you don't have to give them a reason to get angry!
People who genuinely enjoyed the non competitive nature of The Gauntlet are certainly disappointed at the new direction.

So your comparison is:

0.1% of population +goodwill + possibly $100

versus

-goodwill from some % of population that is likely significantly greater than 0.1%.

And unless you think goodwill is so worthless that you can't even lose $100 from just the guys posting on this forum that complained already, it's hard to see how this can be beneficial.

Okay. If you look at the difference between this gauntlet and last one, the ONLY difference is that top 10 gets an extra 10-pack, and that 11-10000 get an extra 100 iso and recruit token. If you were a completely rational person, how can you say that

Phantron wrote:

"People who genuinely enjoyed the non competitive nature of The Gauntlet are certainly disappointed at the new direction."

? What new direction? It's EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS BEFORE FOR 99.9% OF THE USERBASE. Hell, this new change benefits EVERYONE because everyone is up an extra 100 iso and recruit token.

This is my list of pros and cons:

Pros:
1. The people who like speedrunning and new ways to play the PvE think that this is a neat idea. Some may try to play the gauntlet this way, some won't, but recognize that since they're up an extra 100 iso and recruit token anyways, that this change doesn't hurt them at all and is beneficial to everyone.
2. The winners get an extra 10 pack for their efforts.
3. The devs feel cool about adding a feature that clearly doesn't make any money, but hopefully makes the users happier overall since it doesn't hurt anyone.

Cons:
1. The people who get 11-20 feel bummed out. Some would feel that they lost fair and square, but look forward to competing again, others would rage and complain on the forums.
2. The irrational people who are looking for any excuse to complain about this game do, and start a tinykitty on the forums.
3. The devs lose 10 minutes of their time implementing this.

And that's what it really boils down to. I guess we just can't have nice things, because even when there is literally no downside to this feature for any player, people still look at this from the worst possible angle and complain about it. If you look at this rationally, there is absolutely no reason why anyone should be complaining to the degree that they are now, and yet here we are.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Okay... replace the term "hardcore" with "players who think that speedrunning could be interesting, and have the necessary roster to do so?"

So someone like you, who is likely to immediately sell back what you win back, is going to be totally re-energized with this new feature that you and other 0.1% of the guys that placed top 10 is going to easily make up for just the complains already posted on this change? Because you're going to um, spend more money on this game since you were able to win a token that you never needed?

Player goodwill is not worth very much, but it's not this worthless. I see no reason to believe you or any other guy who finished in the top 10 is supposed to get revitalized in this game for getting a top 10, and I certainly see quite a few guys expressing their dislike. At best, the vast majority of the players do not care. They can also view it as a 'rich gets richer' deal for the wrong reason. Now I know you're going to say, 'but they shouldn't be angry because this prize is worthless to begin with', but you don't get to decide that for others even if it's true. There is certainly a very strong sentiment about how this game is too P2W and the new guy can never get anywhere, and you want to make a change that is going to give more ammunition to the fire?

No I totally agree. My arguments are simply a futile attempt to get people to understand that this change shouldn't be getting this type of response. Given the ridiculous responses I've seen on this thread and the drama that it has caused, the developers should remove this feature for the next gauntlet entirely. Even if it's a net positive for the entire playerbase, player's perceptions obviously think on the contrary. The devs will look at this thread, think "Seriously?", and then remove the feature because it's clearly not worth it.

Hulk11

So you're saying this is just added, something they just willy nilly wanted to add? Like as adding a new shade of blue to the background? Sorta how that comes off, at first glance it seems like a cool new addition, like more rewards and things but after you boil it down. It's as you state, just a willy nilly addition. The 11-infinite gives it away. Can something else be done than trolly willy nilly stuff?

I wanted to dig into what exactly you thought the purpose of this was. Same stuff, hardcore, speedrunners, high levels.

The developers added this as an alternative for the higher level people who wanted to try a speed-run through the Gauntlet, and nothing else.

As I've found high level extreme players are not the only people placing in top spots. Debunked, if this was the only point to do this, then it failed, low level players will uber slow rosters just make a mock of this. What I'm trying to say is, then this failed at it's core purpose. Anyone who read the directions, literally could win this. It's like read the fine print game. Not at all the purpose then.

Unknown

Does anyone know when you get or if its really 100% chance to get a 10-pack if you finish top10 in each bracket? Just wonderin cuz i placed top3 in my bracket in Gauntlet: Wilderness and i havent gotten 10-pack yet.. Maybe its just the first 10 overall? Aw so dissappointing =( Could anyone explain how it works? Thanks in advance.

NorthernPolarity

Hulk11 wrote:

So you're saying this is just added, something they just willy nilly wanted to add? Like as adding a new shade of blue to the background? Sorta how that comes off, at first glance it seems like a cool new addition, like more rewards and things but after you boil it down. It's as you state, just a willy nilly addition. The 11-infinite gives it away. Can something else be done than trolly willy nilly stuff?

Yes, this is exactly what I think. Some developer thought "Hey, what if we tried to make the Gauntlet speedrunnable?" and that's what led to this. Now people would have a right to complain if they spend a non-trivial amount of time implementing this feature as they should be, but given what we've seen, they couldn't have spent more than like 10-15 minutes getting everything in place for this. I guess you could complain "but that's 10-15 minutes that could have been spent implementing 1/30th of another feature!", but at that point you're just being ridiculous: you might as well be saying "**** developers, why are you going to the bathroom when you should be working on a new feature instead".

Zen808

Hulk11

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hulk11 wrote:

So you're saying this is just added, something they just willy nilly wanted to add? Like as adding a new shade of blue to the background? Sorta how that comes off, at first glance it seems like a cool new addition, like more rewards and things but after you boil it down. It's as you state, just a willy nilly addition. The 11-infinite gives it away. Can something else be done than trolly willy nilly stuff?

Yes, this is exactly what I think. Some developer thought "Hey, what if we tried to make the Gauntlet speedrunnable?" and that's what led to this. Now people would have a right to complain if they spend a non-trivial amount of time implementing this feature as they should be, but given what we've seen, they couldn't have spent more than like 10-15 minutes getting everything in place for this. I guess you could complain "but that's 10-15 minutes that could have been spent implementing 1/30th of another feature!", but at that point you're just being ridiculous: you might as well be saying "**** developers, why are you going to the bathroom when you should be working on a new feature instead".

Well no one knows the time or thought process to even add this gimmick. It's still attention and in final result, sorta just waste. Would time wasted, on achieving wasted results really matter? We might get an uproar sure if they came out and said weeks in planning though...

If you want a speed run you place everyone on level playing fields. The same exact level. If you look into speedruns or just watch one, it's one exact level to beat. This is all haywire and chaos. This isn't even a speedrun, if you read the fine print in this, yes you just got the advantage. Play your roster, beat the stuff, and maybe If you were quicker than you normally were on your average joe day, or whatever the variable is in this, you got top ten. Wow, speed runs are awesome.

Unknown

Heroic Mystery wrote:

Does anyone know when you get or if its really 100% chance to get a 10-pack if you finish top10 in each bracket? Just wonderin cuz i placed top3 in my bracket in Gauntlet: Wilderness and i havent gotten 10-pack yet.. Maybe its just the first 10 overall? Aw so dissappointing =( Could anyone explain how it works? Thanks in advance.

I'm sure it's just like with all other events, you'll get it when the Event is done. Congrats by the way.

NorthernPolarity

Hulk11 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hulk11 wrote:

So you're saying this is just added, something they just willy nilly wanted to add? Like as adding a new shade of blue to the background? Sorta how that comes off, at first glance it seems like a cool new addition, like more rewards and things but after you boil it down. It's as you state, just a willy nilly addition. The 11-infinite gives it away. Can something else be done than trolly willy nilly stuff?

Yes, this is exactly what I think. Some developer thought "Hey, what if we tried to make the Gauntlet speedrunnable?" and that's what led to this. Now people would have a right to complain if they spend a non-trivial amount of time implementing this feature as they should be, but given what we've seen, they couldn't have spent more than like 10-15 minutes getting everything in place for this. I guess you could complain "but that's 10-15 minutes that could have been spent implementing 1/30th of another feature!", but at that point you're just being ridiculous: you might as well be saying "**** developers, why are you going to the bathroom when you should be working on a new feature instead".

Well no one knows the time or thought process to even add this gimmick. It's still attention and in final result, sorta just waste. Would time wasted, on achieving wasted results really matter? We might get an uproar sure if they came out and said weeks in planning though...

I'm about to enter software engineering as a profession. I can tell you that codewise, this would take like 10-15 minutes of work tops. Just think about it logically: there is no difference between this and a normal PvE event in terms of rewards structure, hence it doesn't take any additional work to implement outside of specifying what the rewards are.

My point is that the event took a trivial amount of time to implement, and that players exist that would think that this was a neat idea. The developers thought "hey, this 10 minutes of our time is probably worth the enjoyment that some players will get out of this. Either way, it's a fun idea, and we feel good for implementing this. What possibly could go wrong?". The results are only wasted to you and the players who complain: players obviously exist that would like this idea, and so the idea is that all things considered, this is a net positive for a very little amount of work. Given that there now exists a vocal portion of the playerbase (minority or not, we don't know) on the forums that are vehemently protesting this change, I guess they were wrong and this could be a net negative instead.

Unknown

Oh yes you're right PPPlaya re-read the award distribution and prizes are distributed after event is over. Thanks btw for the reply =D i got really lucky then i guess

Hulk11

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hulk11 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hulk11 wrote:

So you're saying this is just added, something they just willy nilly wanted to add? Like as adding a new shade of blue to the background? Sorta how that comes off, at first glance it seems like a cool new addition, like more rewards and things but after you boil it down. It's as you state, just a willy nilly addition. The 11-infinite gives it away. Can something else be done than trolly willy nilly stuff?

Yes, this is exactly what I think. Some developer thought "Hey, what if we tried to make the Gauntlet speedrunnable?" and that's what led to this. Now people would have a right to complain if they spend a non-trivial amount of time implementing this feature as they should be, but given what we've seen, they couldn't have spent more than like 10-15 minutes getting everything in place for this. I guess you could complain "but that's 10-15 minutes that could have been spent implementing 1/30th of another feature!", but at that point you're just being ridiculous: you might as well be saying "**** developers, why are you going to the bathroom when you should be working on a new feature instead".

Well no one knows the time or thought process to even add this gimmick. It's still attention and in final result, sorta just waste. Would time wasted, on achieving wasted results really matter? We might get an uproar sure if they came out and said weeks in planning though...

I'm about to enter software engineering as a profession. I can tell you that codewise, this would take like 10-15 minutes of work tops. Just think about it logically: there is no difference between this and a normal PvE event in terms of rewards structure, hence it doesn't take any additional work to implement outside of specifying what the rewards are.

My point is that the event took a trivial amount of time to implement, and that players exist that would think that this was a neat idea. The developers thought "hey, this 10 minutes of our time is probably worth the enjoyment that some players will get out of this. Either way, it's a fun idea, and we feel good for implementing this. What possibly could go wrong?". The results are only wasted to you and the players who complain: players obviously exist that would like this idea, and so the idea is that all things considered, this is a net positive for a very little amount of work. Given that there now exists a vocal portion of the playerbase (minority or not, we don't know) on the forums that are vehemently protesting this change, I guess they were wrong and this could be a net negative instead.

I admit, at first glance I agreed, but like most things you need to take that second one. My bad. Now I'm taking 5, 6ths and 7ths and I'm not impressed. Yes ludicrous rosters win this event as well as great one's. This one single reward pans out better than even playing for the next 4 days at all. Players slipping through the cracks to take advantage of this is not fun. I mean did they really intend anyone with one DD to snipe away these rewards? If so then yeah they wanted you to spend and get him, beat the mission and maybe take top ten. However unlikely, so people kinda messed around with this system and took away better rewards, than they really should've. If you have one DD regardless of roster, it's like free for all. This is so far from a speedrun, I want to cry for D3.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I'm about to enter software engineering as a profession. I can tell you that codewise, this would take like 10-15 minutes of work tops. Just think about it logically: there is no difference between this and a normal PvE event in terms of rewards structure, hence it doesn't take any additional work to implement outside of specifying what the rewards are.

My point is that the event took a trivial amount of time to implement, and that players exist that would think that this was a neat idea. The developers thought "hey, this 10 minutes of our time is probably worth the enjoyment that some players will get out of this. Either way, it's a fun idea, and we feel good for implementing this. What possibly could go wrong?". The results are only wasted to you and the players who complain: players obviously exist that would like this idea, and so the idea is that all things considered, this is a net positive for a very little amount of work. Given that there now exists a vocal portion of the playerbase (minority or not, we don't know) on the forums that are vehemently protesting this change, I guess they were wrong and this could be a net negative instead.

Most changes to this game would take 10-15 minutes tops, but that doesn't stop software engineering from inexplicably making something that should take 5 minutes to do to 5 days.

The guys who thought this is a positive probably the guys who place top 10, which by definition is 0.1% of the population, and I'm sure to support how awesome this is you're going to buy another 10 pack heroic tokens to go with the 10 you won that you'll almost certainly going to immediately sell back for iso 8. Look, I know most of us are just complaining and they shouldn't take this seriously, but this event is setting the bar incredibly low even for the usual 'angry forum guy' analysis. In terms of monetary value we can be nearly certain that almost nobody spent any meaningful amount of money for the top 10 finish because it's frankly not needed in the first place, so if even a few guys are angry enough to cut back their spending that'd be a net loss. In terms of goodwill, this mechanism generated positive goodwill for at most 0.1% of the total population. I can see no scenario where a guy didn't place top 10 and say, "It's so awesome they make Gauntlet competitive even though I didn't win anything", versus negative goodwill for an undetermined portion of the population. Now just look at all the 'I can't transition blah blah blah' threads, do you really think you want to give more fuel to this perception? Do you really think a guy struggling to place well in PvP and then see all the maxed roster at the top 10 won't think of this as a validation that he's screwed? Outside of you, who personally placed top 10 in this event, why would you think anyone who didn't also place similarly would view this as a positive thing? I see a few guys who are indifferent, e.g. 'people crying like usual', but I sure don't see these guys saying 'this change is good'.

Unknown

People spending money on health packs and boosts in gauntlet. Why?

And it's not a cash grab. If it were, they would have set up the event so more people could start with a chance to get t10. For example, new brackets would open every hour. Instead, the event was set up so that the fewest ppl would race for t10.

What it is is another attempt to try something new. You can argue if it's good or bad, whether players like it or not. But it's not a cash grab. See daveomite's awesome threads, heroic pves you can argue are cash grabs. Even if they aren't, the threads are still hilarious.

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22787

atomzed

What I have learnt from this incident is that the forummites (since we don't know how non forum goers feel about this) will be upset when they feel that they are not given a fair shot of additional rewards.

Lessons learnt? Don't give anything more I suppose.

Hulk11

atomzed wrote:

What I have learnt from this incident is that the forummites (since we don't know how non forum goers feel about this) will be upset when they feel that they are not given a fair shot of additional rewards.

Lessons learnt? Don't give anything more I suppose.

Well there's bigtime speculation that the devs wanted speedruns. I'ved played this mode, it gets to the point of surviving and not speeding. Sorta like tortoise and the hare. I don't think the hare won this like they expect if this was a speedrun simulation. Tell me it's not a speedrun game, and then we can really figure out what happened.

Trisul

I'm for one am happy that Gauntlet gives us bit more than last time.

+1 NP's camp