**** Invisible Woman (Classic) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

A single 400 tile is MUCH better than 10 40 tiles. She already produces shield tiles.

I disagree with the statement "XF is where a 4*s power level should be" because that statement is going to lead to power creep. XF is an assassin of the highest caliber, the best at what he does and what he does is damage. Being "on par with XF" means being at the top of the mountain. Not everyone should, or even could, be at that level. Fury is a fine 4* character. When the sidegrade comments were made was back when Sentry ruled the world. Now, he is better than at least 80% of 3*s if not more. Could his purple use more damage now that purple damage seems to be a thing? Yes. But he's not weak or broken by any means, and Demolition will still ruin your day.

IW needs buffed. That much is clear. How to go about it remains a mystery, however, if you want to keep some of the core character alive. Although how much of XFs original powers did they maintain? Almost 0.

ynglink

I really like how her Blue and Green abilities interact, but I agree that the Green should be moved to a purple ability. (Exploding Force Fields, how is that not "sneaky")

Also at Level 5, the green should destroy all Bubbles on the field, I'm still okay with this ending the turn. Her Yellow ability is what I don't get though. You don't get to pick who you keep alive, it costs too much, and if I remember correctly you don't get to place the tile where you want to. There is no reason to ever use this ability, and in the case of the Force Fields locking ability, it doesn't seem to be very good to save your stuff from being matched. So then you can't even protect the invisibility tile with her own abilities. In my opinion it's the yellow ability that needs to be reworked the most. The other two abilities are fun and while not super offensive, have a reason to be used. They could be tweaked a little bit, but that would be more towards cost or bubble amounts, etc.

Nellyson

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

Personally, being a protective mother, I think she should produce protect tiles. Not just 1 or 2 little regular ones either. Like Falcons purple, only a LOT more powerful. After all, putting up invisible force shields is one of her most popular abilities, not to mention one that she uses an awful lot in the comics. Or maybe she could wrap an enemy in a force bubble, stunning them for a few turns. Or both.

But as a 4*, and one of the most powerful characters in Marvel, she should, IMO, do a level of damage equal to, or greater than Xforce.

We do need a great protection player in the game. All we have is power move this and power move that. All offense offense offense. Where are the defensive specialists? The ones who protect it's players? Steve Rogers is one, but he's super expense, but also super awesome once he gets rolling. So we need a 4 that has "Fantastic" defensive abilities. I'd love to see them make a defensive powerhouse! I vote lowering her yellow to 10 like everyone else, but also making her cost around 6-8, create only 3 or 4 bubbles max, but also a super impressive protect tile . Seriously, then her green could still end the turn and gain AP like it does, only you wouldn't be screwed cause you have a massive on the board. That's my fix anyways.

Unknown

As long as the game grossly favors offense there's not much value for a defensive specialist. At the very least boosts need to be eliminated for offense (or defense can boost, not even sure how that's supposed to work though) and even then, starting with a defensive move immediately ready is just not the same as having an offensive move immediately ready. Even if you could instruct the AI to lock bubbles optimally and start with a Force Bubble, it's still not nearly as useful as starting with just about any decent offensive 3 match move.

Unknown

I think green ends the turn because it has the ability to potentially generate a lot of AP, and there is a concern that it could just cause a never ending turn (like pre-nerf Hood and 4Thor).

I agree with most of the posters here that the main problem is that her powers simply cost too much AP for what they do. Lower the cost of each by 3, and she instantly becomes a much more dangerous character. I think all three of her powers are already pretty decent once you get full covers (just too expensive). However, her powers are worse than most PRIOR to getting full covers. Hence, many people without full covers see her has hopelessly useless.

That being said, I wish yellow would just let you pick the character you want to protect.

Unknown

A single 400 tile is MUCH better than 10 40 tiles. She already produces shield tiles.

Not in my opinion. I'm much more concerned about facing Cmags or Falcon and having them lay out a ton of Protect tiles then I am about facing Cage. Because that one tile, while strong, is only one match away from being gone. the other two (and i'd even include Bullseye and Spidey in here to a lesser extent) you're looking at having to match a bunch of tiles to get rid of it all. And what I was proposing would make it so you would have to match them twice to truely get rid of them, giving people that edge over 3* powerlevel that they are wanting.

Can you imagine facing Cmags or Falcon, having them dump protect tiles everywhere, and then know you have to match them twice to get rid of them?

Unknown

Just spitballing

What about an active/passive like Doom's purple where she creates a bubble at the start of each turn? Or a bubble on each color that has at least 12 (or 13) tiles on the board?

The second power can turn into straight shield generation.

The third power could borrow from Colossus. Invisibility granted to a team mate for X turns (can vary by covers). While invisible, teammate steals all opponent AP from one of his active colors (with more covers maybe 100% from one and 50% from a second). This could easily make the teammate charged up when visible again, ready to attack

Scoregasms

Phantron wrote:

As long as the game grossly favors offense there's not much value for a defensive specialist. At the very least boosts need to be eliminated for offense (or defense can boost, not even sure how that's supposed to work though) and even then, starting with a defensive move immediately ready is just not the same as having an offensive move immediately ready. Even if you could instruct the AI to lock bubbles optimally and start with a Force Bubble, it's still not nearly as useful as starting with just about any decent offensive 3 match move.

Agree with Phantron's point that speed and offense is how the game basically has forced how the meta game is to be played to be competitive. Main problem I see is that penalty is far too high to play with a sub-optimal team, even if it is more "fun". Unfortunately, PVP is all about speed and climbing to the top and winning more points faster than you can lose, and that's it.

Having said that, what do folks think of this notion, feel free to tear it apart if this thought just ends up being a brain fart, lol.

Remove points lost when your defensive team loses to an opposing player entirely. Instead, implement a points decay system that has you lose points every 1 hour once you start, say 50 pts from 0 - 500 and then 100 points from 500+ (point decay only kicks if you have there has been no positive or negative gain in that time span).

Still requires shielding to stop the points decay, lets you play who you want and take your time if you start early without worry of your team losing to an XF/4hor combo 4x in 5 minutes. The XF/4hor team can still start late and do their warp speed climb up the points ladder, but guess what, folks who started earlier have more points than before. It gives those who want to take their time and enjoy playing against other team with whatever team makeup they want a chance to compete and still gives those with XF/4hor a way to climb even higher with more points available overall.

Granted, I see overall point totals skyrocketing, but who cares, it's all relative right, but at least folks are enjoying PVP again. Probably also would require a cost reduction in shields since folks would be shielding more often based on their play schedule. If you let your shield expire and you forgot, it's not like you're losing more points anyway then before (unless you forgot for a whole day... lol). There's still that frenetic end of pvp rush, but at least it's free of the dread of coming out of a match worth 25 points only to see you lost 75 in exchange.

I dunno, maybe I am talking crazy and this talk of a uber buffed IW is messing with mah braaaaiin.

Anyway, interested to hear the veterans thoughts on this who have played this game forever and a day longer than I, in my mind, PVP is still a competition with this change, but I'm not privy to the super high end-game competition mindset. I already know there are folks who refuse to shield and this would pretty much be a game ending change for them, but what if shields only costs 5, 20, 50 HP (8 hour CD still in effect) instead since it's pretty much now required to shield to not lose points?

tanis3303

Who says she has to be a PvP character tho? With my current PvE scaling, I would absolutely LOVE a quick, defensive character that can lock important tiles up, throw down 500+ protect tiles and prevent characters from being attacked. As it stand tho, her abilities are just too expensive to be worth it, once you've collected that much blue and green, you may as well just start X-Forcing and Power Surging everything to death, defense be damned

Unknown

Why work on IW when you can make a 4*Storm, make players scramble for top 50 for her covers, make collectors spend $$$$ to find out her stats, and she doesn't even have to be good?

Wonko33

She's 4 *, let her place all her damn ability tiles, the bubbles, the invisibility and decide which ones she shatters- won't help much in defense but at least we can strategize a bit more

Unknown

Troll power: 21ap force away: invisible woman throws a force bubble at target character, which carries them away from the battlefield

Wonko33

Mattfal wrote:

Troll power: 21ap force away: invisible woman throws a force bubble at target character, which carries them away from the battlefield

or her invisibility power make it that you can't see who one of her teammate is when you pick them in PvP , you see her, one other and third is mystery until they use one of their powers

Lidolas

What about a passive that works somewhat similar to ? is always throwing up huge force fields to shield herself and others. What about a power that, given enough tiles on the board, or collected, allows her to shield her whole team if the damage is going to be greater than x? Match damage would still hit them, because her team needs to be out and able to fight. But when she sees a huge fireball or storm coming in she pops up a shield around the whole team.

Arondite

Alexraven wrote:

A single 400 tile is MUCH better than 10 40 tiles. She already produces shield tiles.

Not in my opinion. I'm much more concerned about facing Cmags or Falcon and having them lay out a ton of Protect tiles then I am about facing Cage. Because that one tile, while strong, is only one match away from being gone. the other two (and i'd even include Bullseye and Spidey in here to a lesser extent) you're looking at having to match a bunch of tiles to get rid of it all. And what I was proposing would make it so you would have to match them twice to truely get rid of them, giving people that edge over 3* powerlevel that they are wanting.

Can you imagine facing Cmags or Falcon, having them dump protect tiles everywhere, and then know you have to match them twice to get rid of them?

And then Luke poops another out next turn, voila.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

As long as the game grossly favors offense there's not much value for a defensive specialist. At the very least boosts need to be eliminated for offense (or defense can boost, not even sure how that's supposed to work though) and even then, starting with a defensive move immediately ready is just not the same as having an offensive move immediately ready. Even if you could instruct the AI to lock bubbles optimally and start with a Force Bubble, it's still not nearly as useful as starting with just about any decent offensive 3 match move.

Luke Cage would like a word.

Shield tiles work. They don't work fast, and that's the problem. The winner of any event is typically the one who plays the fastest. Still, if you wanna conserve health packs, there are worse moves than opening with a str 400 shield tile.

Unknown

Alexraven wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

A single 400 tile is MUCH better than 10 40 tiles. She already produces shield tiles.

Not in my opinion. I'm much more concerned about facing Cmags or Falcon and having them lay out a ton of Protect tiles then I am about facing Cage. Because that one tile, while strong, is only one match away from being gone. the other two (and i'd even include Bullseye and Spidey in here to a lesser extent) you're looking at having to match a bunch of tiles to get rid of it all. And what I was proposing would make it so you would have to match them twice to truely get rid of them, giving people that edge over 3* powerlevel that they are wanting.

Can you imagine facing Cmags or Falcon, having them dump protect tiles everywhere, and then know you have to match them twice to get rid of them?

You can easily protect your 1 shield tile from being matched, it's much harder to protect 10. On defense I can see the shotgun being more practical since the AI won't protect the tile, but on offense 1 400 is better than 10 40s.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Alexraven wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

A single 400 tile is MUCH better than 10 40 tiles. She already produces shield tiles.

Not in my opinion. I'm much more concerned about facing Cmags or Falcon and having them lay out a ton of Protect tiles then I am about facing Cage. Because that one tile, while strong, is only one match away from being gone. the other two (and i'd even include Bullseye and Spidey in here to a lesser extent) you're looking at having to match a bunch of tiles to get rid of it all. And what I was proposing would make it so you would have to match them twice to truely get rid of them, giving people that edge over 3* powerlevel that they are wanting.

Can you imagine facing Cmags or Falcon, having them dump protect tiles everywhere, and then know you have to match them twice to get rid of them?

You can easily protect your 1 shield tile from being matched, it's much harder to protect 10. On defense I can see the shotgun being more practical since the AI won't protect the tile, but on offense 1 400 is better than 10 40s.

True but 5 40s is enough to eliminate match damage, how many turns does it take to lose 5 shields? Usually a lot more than it takes to lose 1 shield. The regenerating shield of Mr. Cage on the other hand...pita.

IamTheDanger

A single 400 protect can be better than ten 40 tiles, as long as you are not facing some like Steve Rogers, Thorette, or even Loki. A single tile cant help when all it takes is one enemy with an overwrite ability. But if not facing one of those characters, then defending a single tile is much easier. It all depends on the situation I guess.

Unknown

There are plenty ways to make defensive characters playable. You can make a character with a cheap ability that stops any abilities of a certain color from being played the next turn, or that makes the opponent's skills more expensive (like SL, except good - none of this countdown tile ****), or you can make heroes that reflect damage (like cStorm or hulk, but a passive that actually reflected a portion of the total damage received the following turn/turns, or a smaller reflection that's a passive). This last idea directly counters characters that overkill for several thousand, and makes people actually think before just jamming xf 4t in every team.

I think the main problem is that when offensive character beat you, the fight is just over and you're dead and you move on. When defensive characters checkmate you, you're left to linger in the match until they slowly erode your health over time. That's much more aggravating to play against.