**** Invisible Woman (Classic) **** [PRE 2015-04]

hesjingixen

I was playing the Sentry lightning round today, and I had an idea for improving Invisible Woman. I think it would be really cool if her Force Bubbles protected both ways. What I mean is, right now, they basically just neutralize a tile until they get removed, but what if they neutralized enemy tiles but protected (while allowing them to function) friendly tiles. This would make her a good companion for anyone that uses countdown tiles plus folks like Sentry (to protect Sacrifice tiles) and Blade (to protect his attack tiles), while still allowing her to neutralize annoying enemy tiles. It would also make her green a bit more tactical, since you'd have to decide if it was worth it to remove the tile's protection in order to get the damage.

Thoughts?

Edit: It just occurred to me, should this have been put in "Suggestions and Feedback" instead? Is there a way to move it there?

john1620b

Actually, it should probably be put in the relevant character topic. Mods, can you move it?

Someone else has suggested this before, and I agree, I think this would make Force Bubbles much more useful. She'd probably need some other buffs to be a viable 4*, but even without those, it would make her much more fun to play with.

JamieMadrox

Please keep conversations about specific characters to that character's topic.
**** Invisible Woman (Classic) ****

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

So I know there have been many suggesting this in the past, but Invisible Woman is unequivocally the WORST 4* character. Previously there weren't many, but now that there are 6 other 4* characters this gap has become more and more apparent.

So, the question becomes HOW could Invisible Woman be changed to make her at the very least in the same league as the other 4* characters.

Here's a few quick ideas:

What if her Blue included a passive that as long as she is active (not stunned), force bubbles were only locked for the opposing team?

What if her Green included a passive that would randomly create a Force Bubble at the start of each turn (thus negating the secondary function of creating Force Bubbles when none exist)?

What if her Yellow acted more like Electra's Black?

Good ideas. My thoughts would be:

Yellow: We should be able to pick the tile to convert, and at max level we can convert any tile (including countdown, strike, etc). Should be cheaper too as its much too expensive

Blue: I think it is good as it is currently, but the ability to choose the amount of bubbles we want to create would be useful. I played a game where I locked about 75% of the board. It was a slow game and wished I didn't have to create so many bubbles

Green: I like your suggestion to create a force bubble passively every turn. This would be similar to doom's diabolic plot, except bubbles can lock any tile. Can be a miss if it locks your own special tile but that would be it interesting too.

konannfriends

prash wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

So I know there have been many suggesting this in the past, but Invisible Woman is unequivocally the WORST 4* character. Previously there weren't many, but now that there are 6 other 4* characters this gap has become more and more apparent.

So, the question becomes HOW could Invisible Woman be changed to make her at the very least in the same league as the other 4* characters.

Here's a few quick ideas:

What if her Blue included a passive that as long as she is active (not stunned), force bubbles were only locked for the opposing team?

What if her Green included a passive that would randomly create a Force Bubble at the start of each turn (thus negating the secondary function of creating Force Bubbles when none exist)?

What if her Yellow acted more like Electra's Black?

Good ideas. My thoughts would be:

Yellow: We should be able to pick the tile to convert, and at max level we can convert any tile (including countdown, strike, etc). Should be cheaper too as its much too expensive

Blue: I think it is good as it is currently, but the ability to choose the amount of bubbles we want to create would be useful. I played a game where I locked about 75% of the board. It was a slow game and wished I didn't have to create so many bubbles

Green: I like your suggestion to create a force bubble passively every turn. This would be similar to doom's diabolic plot, except bubbles can lock any tile.n be a miss if it locks your own special tile but that would be it interesting too.

Ca

No t pooping on your idea or anything but the words good and sue's blue powers should not be used in the same sentence. it is her worst problem. it cost 13 ap...., creates a protect tile that is useless cuz her green will destroy it. if it were a character like She thor who has the health to tank 13ap then it would be fine but even at maxed out 270 sue has less than 9000 health. she should not have to tank anyhting more than 9 green ap. her blue should be a passive ability and the force bubbles should have protect tile properties. thus eliminating the uselessness of her blue protectile. her yellow is fine i guess but it can be changed to something a little more usefull in my opinion.

Honestly they couuld keep the blue power the same and make the yellow power the passive ability. and it could be something like. Sue protects the team from harm with her force fields. and each turn there are less than 3 force bubbles she places 1 around a team up tile

hesjingixen

I was playing the Sentry lightning round today, and I had an idea for improving Invisible Woman. I think it would be really cool if her Force Bubbles protected both ways. What I mean is, right now, they basically just neutralize a tile until they get removed, but what if they neutralized enemy tiles but protected (while allowing them to function) friendly tiles. This would make her a good companion for anyone that uses countdown tiles plus folks like Sentry (to protect Sacrifice tiles) and Blade (to protect his attack tiles), while still allowing her to neutralize annoying enemy tiles. It would also make her green a bit more tactical, since you'd have to decide if it was worth it to remove the tile's protection in order to get the damage.

I originally posted this in another thread (my bad), and someone else said they'd seen a similar suggestion, but this is the first I've seen of it.

simonsez

Has anyone yet suggested an ability that would shake up the board and leave tiles invisible? That would be incredibly annoying, which is pretty much the goal of a defensive-minded character.

Kolence

hesjingixen wrote:

I was playing the Sentry lightning round today, and I had an idea for improving Invisible Woman. I think it would be really cool if her Force Bubbles protected both ways. What I mean is, right now, they basically just neutralize a tile until they get removed, but what if they neutralized enemy tiles but protected (while allowing them to function) friendly tiles. This would make her a good companion for anyone that uses countdown tiles plus folks like Sentry (to protect Sacrifice tiles) and Blade (to protect his attack tiles), while still allowing her to neutralize annoying enemy tiles. It would also make her green a bit more tactical, since you'd have to decide if it was worth it to remove the tile's protection in order to get the damage.

I originally posted this in another thread (my bad), and someone else said they'd seen a similar suggestion, but this is the first I've seen of it.

It is one of the better ideas IMO too. The problem with it is I think bubbles are not owned by any team. Same as web tiles. If IW play against IW, one can place force bubbles and the other one can crush them and get all the AP. So it would have to be completely changed/reworked which might be what is needed anyway.

donietsche

Or she could be placing charged tiles (just like GThor) with a (predictable) twist.

Only the owner of IW knows their location (like traps) 'cause... they are invisible.

It seems to me that such a skill wouldn't be a game breaker, given that it is not associated with any other (secondary or primary) effect.

ErikPeter

I think she needs a total rework, like X-Force got; Force Bubbles are really weird and difficult to use properly. If, as suggested above, they protected friendly special tiles instead of locking them, they'd be a lot more interesting, but then you bump into the IW vs IW conundrum (Do you need to make enemy force bubbles black, etc?). But either way, the power slows down the game for both sides, not just your enemy. Since it sounds like the power itself has a ton of exceptions and is a QA nightmare, why not just call it what it is--a design mistake--and reboot?

Force Shield 11 AP
Creates 2/3/4/5/6 Blue Protect tiles of strength 100. Passive: Reduce damage your team takes by 5/5/8/8/12% for each friendly Blue protect tile.
The damage reduction would be multiplicative. so if you had 6 tiles out at max rank the total damage taken would be .88 * .88 * .88 ... = .46, so 54% reduced damage plus the protect tiles. It'd be a decent lockout until you took care of some of those tiles; i.e., a power worthy of a 4*. And if you managed to activate it twice, let's say with 10 tiles out, you'd have -73% damage -1000, which is enough to blunt almost anything (a 10k hit becomes a 2k hit).

If they want to keep her green's AP gain powers, they could just have FF Crush destroy random protect tiles and the tiles around them. It'd be a tradeoff for losing the defense, but probably worth it.

konannfriends

ErikPeter wrote:

I think she needs a total rework, like X-Force got; Force Bubbles are really weird and difficult to use properly. If, as suggested above, they protected friendly special tiles instead of locking them, they'd be a lot more interesting, but then you bump into the IW vs IW conundrum (Do you need to make enemy force bubbles black, etc?). But either way, the power slows down the game for both sides, not just your enemy. Since it sounds like the power itself has a ton of exceptions and is a QA nightmare, why not just call it what it is--a design mistake--and reboot?

Force Shield 11 AP
Creates 2/3/4/5/6 Blue Protect tiles of strength 100. Passive: Reduce damage your team takes by 5/5/8/8/12% for each friendly Blue protect tile.
The damage reduction would be multiplicative. so if you had 6 tiles out at max rank the total damage taken would be .88 * .88 * .88 ... = .46, so 54% reduced damage plus the protect tiles. It'd be a decent lockout until you took care of some of those tiles; i.e., a power worthy of a 4*. And if you managed to activate it twice, let's say with 10 tiles out, you'd have -73% damage -1000, which is enough to blunt almost anything (a 10k hit becomes a 2k hit).

If they want to keep her green's AP gain powers, they could just have FF Crush destroy random protect tiles and the tiles around them. It'd be a tradeoff for losing the defense, but probably worth it.

I like the ideal of force bubbles. They shouldn't be removed. Unless I still somehow get 24 ap with a i green ap. I really wouldn't care if they didn't lock tiles though but the fact that There a tile that no one can manipulate is why she is a legendary characters. Do you want invisible woman to be easily beaten by the Loki counter pick?

ErikPeter

konannfriends wrote:

I like the ideal of force bubbles. They shouldn't be removed. Unless I still somehow get 24 ap with a i green ap. I really wouldn't care if they didn't lock tiles though but the fact that There a tile that no one can manipulate is why she is a legendary characters. Do you want invisible woman to be easily beaten by the Loki counter pick?

Sure. She's already easily beaten by anyone else. If someone wants to bring Loki along to mess her up, they aren't bringing X-Force (assuming 4hor and a featured character in the 3rd slot) which is a meaningful choice, unlike "Just use XForce/4hor". Being able to exploit character weaknesses makes the game better, not worse.

Even so, you raise a decent point. She could retain force bubbles or something like it. But they should protect her tiles, not cancel them. And wow, maybe Force Crush can not end the turn unless it does something useful?

konannfriends

ErikPeter wrote:

konannfriends wrote:

I like the ideal of force bubbles. They shouldn't be removed. Unless I still somehow get 24 ap with a i green ap. I really wouldn't care if they didn't lock tiles though but the fact that There a tile that no one can manipulate is why she is a legendary characters. Do you want invisible woman to be easily beaten by the Loki counter pick?

Sure. She's already easily beaten by anyone else. If someone wants to bring Loki along to mess her up, they aren't bringing X-Force (assuming 4hor and a featured character in the 3rd slot) which is a meaningful choice, unlike "Just use XForce/4hor". Being able to exploit character weaknesses makes the game better, not worse.

Even so, you raise a decent point. She could retain force bubbles or something like it. But they should protect her tiles, not cancel them. And wow, maybe Force Crush can not end the turn unless it does something useful?

uhhmm.... Force Field Crush...... not useful...... Doesnt it deal a base damage of 2400 , plus damage for the 24 tiles destroyed. plus the fact that your gaining 24 ap.... i dont think that it should end the turn but i see why it does. if you could easily deploy force bubbles and detonate them for 9 ap, potentially getting 3-5 of those green back. and detonating again. into a loop..... seems fun to use and awsome.. all while gaining ap in your other colors.

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

No t pooping on your idea or anything but the words good and sue's blue powers should not be used in the same sentence. it is her worst problem. it cost 13 ap...., creates a protect tile that is useless cuz her green will destroy it. if it were a character like She thor who has the health to tank 13ap then it would be fine but even at maxed out 270 sue has less than 9000 health. she should not have to tank anyhting more than 9 green ap. her blue should be a passive ability and the force bubbles should have protect tile properties. thus eliminating the uselessness of her blue protectile. her yellow is fine i guess but it can be changed to something a little more usefull in my opinion.

Honestly they couuld keep the blue power the same and make the yellow power the passive ability. and it could be something like. Sue protects the team from harm with her force fields. and each turn there are less than 3 force bubbles she places 1 around a team up tile

You could use Mags to generate blue, that's how I spammed the board with force bubbles. The strategy I use with IW is to face a team that uses the opposite colours that I do so that I lock down their strong colours and they chip away with weak hits. And the force bubbles getting destroyed by green is part of the beauty of the green power. You lock onto enemy tiles or selected spots to gain AP by the Green crushing power. It would be cool to choose which force bubbles to crush. If the "end turn" clause was removed, you could potentially self fund yourself with AP to use the power again or use another one.

Granting invisibility passively is overkill but would be uber cool if they allowed it. That move is very effective if used properly as it is an end game move. You cast it when your strongest character is weaker than the rest of your team and that guy chips away without being hurt. I've played matches where I've made two players invisible. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to protect from enemy group powers like Call the Storm which I think may be a bug. But basically invisibility can save you from losing a game. I had a very long game with just IW left vs Daken. He kept healing and I had to chip away slowly but he couldn't attack me because I was invisible lol!

Agreed her health is low, maybe if they weaken her attack strength, she wouldn't tank so much and get wiped off so quickly

The thing with the devs is, it is unlikely that they will alter her powers drastically. That's why I suggested tweaking what they've already created for her

konannfriends

prash wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

No t pooping on your idea or anything but the words good and sue's blue powers should not be used in the same sentence. it is her worst problem. it cost 13 ap...., creates a protect tile that is useless cuz her green will destroy it. if it were a character like She thor who has the health to tank 13ap then it would be fine but even at maxed out 270 sue has less than 9000 health. she should not have to tank anyhting more than 9 green ap. her blue should be a passive ability and the force bubbles should have protect tile properties. thus eliminating the uselessness of her blue protectile. her yellow is fine i guess but it can be changed to something a little more usefull in my opinion.

Honestly they couuld keep the blue power the same and make the yellow power the passive ability. and it could be something like. Sue protects the team from harm with her force fields. and each turn there are less than 3 force bubbles she places 1 around a team up tile

You could use Mags to generate blue, that's how I spammed the board with force bubbles. The strategy I use with IW is to face a team that uses the opposite colours that I do so that I lock down their strong colours and they chip away with weak hits. And the force bubbles getting destroyed by green is part of the beauty of the green power. You lock onto enemy tiles or selected spots to gain AP by the Green crushing power. It would be cool to choose which force bubbles to crush. If the "end turn" clause was removed, you could potentially self fund yourself with AP to use the power again or use another one.

Granting invisibility passively is overkill but would be uber cool if they allowed it. That move is very effective if used properly as it is an end game move. You cast it when your strongest character is weaker than the rest of your team and that guy chips away without being hurt. I've played matches where I've made two players invisible. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to protect from enemy group powers like Call the Storm which I think may be a bug. But basically invisibility can save you from losing a game. I had a very long game with just IW left vs Daken. He kept healing and I had to chip away slowly but he couldn't attack me because I was invisible lol!

Agreed her health is low, maybe if they weaken her attack strength, she wouldn't tank so much and get wiped off so quickly

The thing with the devs is, it is unlikely that they will alter her powers drastically. That's why I suggested tweaking what they've already created for her

yeah i see exactly what you mean. and her yellow does seem like a last man standing power. so i think its fine but i wish it cost 1 less ap at level 3

i cant stress enough how force bubbles need to act like doctor dooms diabolical plot. and they should Also have protect tile properties (i mean this idea is so golden). and when she gets 13 ap then she can place them. there just needs to be a way to create force bubble without having to get 13 green ap. so the power would be read something like.

Force Bubbles:
POWER COST 13
Susan Focuses her power to lock the enemy down and save the team. locks 8 choosen tiles in force bubbles all with protect strength 48
(PASSIVE) Each turn there are less than 3 strength 48 Force Bubbles on the field, Susan places one on a random Team up Tile.

ErikPeter

Better, but still basically just irritating to use. Sure, it gives you a couple freebies, making Force Crush suck less, but it's still a lot like their current incarnation, which just aren't any fun. Tangentially, I like the idea of them changing TUs.

Here's another completely different idea.

Force Bubbles 6 AP

Converts 1/1/2/2/3 force bubbles into defense tiles of strength 100/200/200/300/300, or creates 3 force bubbles in random locations if there aren't any. (PASSIVE) When an enemy creates a special tile during your turn, Sue automatically encases it in a force bubble. Encased tiles have their effects locked until matched.

Level 5: Sue also places a force bubble around the first special tile created during the enemy turn.

This way, the power would still use force bubbles, except they'd be useful, and dampen LDaken and Loki considerably. But the tiles would linger when matched, so it's not a total shut out. If it's still too strong you could make it only affect the first tile created, so it doesn't completely shut down those guys.

The active ability would basically convert those captured tiles into useful defense, and at level 5, the extra passive would be really nice against CD-users and anyone else that creates few, strong tiles. It'd put Recovery on hold, and pause Star-Lord or Fury's CDs as well. I think this is a good hybrid of the old, **** force bubbles and the new school idea of making a diverse 4* meta.

In fact, making it more useful in the 4* meta means making it work on both turns. And slims down the text. For the tenth edit,

Force Bubbles 6 AP

Unlocks 1/1/2/2/3 tiles locked in force bubbles and converts them into defense tiles of strength 150/200/200/300/300. If there are no force bubbles on the board, creates 3 in random locations instead. (PASSIVE) Sue locks the first enemy special tile created each turn in a force bubble.

konannfriends

ErikPeter wrote:

Better, but still basically just irritating to use. Sure, it gives you a couple freebies, making Force Crush suck less, but it's still a lot like their current incarnation, which just aren't any fun. Tangentially, I like the idea of them changing TUs.

Here's another completely different idea.

Force Bubbles 6 AP

Converts 1/1/2/2/3 force bubbles into defense tiles of strength 100/200/200/300/300, or creates 3 force bubbles in random locations if there aren't any. (PASSIVE) When an enemy creates a special tile during your turn, Sue automatically encases it in a force bubble. Encased tiles have their effects locked until matched.

Level 5: Sue also places a force bubble around the first special tile created during the enemy turn.

This way, the power would still use force bubbles, except they'd be useful, and dampen LDaken and Loki considerably. But the tiles would linger when matched, so it's not a total shut out. If it's still too strong you could make it only affect the first tile created, so it doesn't completely shut down those guys.

The active ability would basically convert those captured tiles into useful defense, and at level 5, the extra passive would be really nice against CD-users and anyone else that creates few, strong tiles. It'd put Recovery on hold, and pause Star-Lord or Fury's CDs as well. I think this is a good hybrid of the old, **** force bubbles and the new school idea of making a diverse 4* meta.

In fact, making it more useful in the 4* meta means making it work on both turns. And slims down the text. For the tenth edit,

Force Bubbles 6 AP

Unlocks 1/1/2/2/3 tiles locked in force bubbles and converts them into defense tiles of strength 150/200/200/300/300. If there are no force bubbles on the board, creates 3 in random locations instead. (PASSIVE) Sue locks the first enemy special tile created each turn in a force bubble.

i actually like where you are going with this the blue passive seems a bit op when you write it like that, but here let me right it out

Force Bubbles 6 AP
Susan Focus her power to protect the team and lock the enemy down. She creates 1 strength 100 protect tile
(PASSIVE) Sue Locks the first enemy special tile created each turn

i dont think they would ever do this because this essentislly kills characters like Iron fist, and luke cage..... What about this

Force Bubbles 6 AP
Susan Focuses her power to protect the team and lock the enemy in place. She creates 1 strength 100 protect tile.
(PASSIVE) Each turn there are less than 1 force bubbles susan creates one on an enemy countdown tile or in a random location

Level 2: Passive can target Enemy Attack Tiles, Maximum of 2 Force bubbles
Level 3: Passive can Targets Enemy Strike Tiles , Maximum of 3 Force bubbles
Level 4: Passive can Target Enemy Protect tiles.
Level 5: Each Force bubble has a Protect strength of 45( I know your not keen on the idea but i like this much better than protect tiles)

Max Level : Protect TIle strength 450 ish? Force bubble strength each 100 ish

Unknown

It's certainly time to reevaluate Storm in light of Charles Xavier. He makes himself invisible for half the AP cost and has a passive effect while he's hiding. There's literally no justification for the cost-to-effect ratio of her invisibility.

DrNitroman

Moon 17 wrote:

It's certainly time to reevaluate Storm in light of Charles Xavier.

Yes, with the release of Professor Xavier, I'd really want to see a reworked IW, not a buffed one but a complete rework! I was hoping to see her soon but as it seems that Ragnarok's rework will be released first, I'll have to be patient!

Fingers crossed: XF rework made him amazing, Sue Storm's rework have to make her actually Fantastic!

konannfriends

DrNitroman wrote:

Moon 17 wrote:

It's certainly time to reevaluate Storm in light of Charles Xavier.

Yes, with the release of Professor Xavier, I'd really want to see a reworked IW, not a buffed one but a complete rework! I was hoping to see her soon but as it seems that Ragnarok's rework will be released first, I'll have to be patient!

Fingers crossed: XF rework made him amazing, Sue Storm's rework have to make her actually Fantastic!

love your play on words

also yeah i want a good sue storm but do we really want them to start taking all the bad characters and making them into xforce tier.....

well that may not be a bad thing since then we will see more than just xthorce