**** Invisible Woman (Classic) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Houtro

What if the devs did an IW that would be slightly better that her, wasn't that funny

iLL619

ark123 wrote:

Riggy wrote:

So dumb newbie-esque question: why is Wanda Maximoff not included in the list of omega level mutants? I just read the story of her bringing the mutants to the edge of extinction, followed by the rebirth of the mutant population, and then the mutant rapture with the Apocalypse Twins. Seems kind of omega level to me.

ark123 wrote:

Marvel zombies 1 and 2 (whole series). The whole 2099 universe comics were great. If you want to get a nice idea of the direction the movies are going I'd recommend reading through everything with "Infinity" in the title (don't worry, you won't be spoiled) and the dark phoenix saga. Oh and Secret wars. Read secret wars. Really, read it.

Thanks for the recommendations. Was secret wars about the skrull invasion? I think I read a couple of series related to that, but Marvel Unlimited didn't have the complete story line the last time I tried reading it.

Secret wars was the first huge marvel crossover with a really good story. I don't really want to talk more about it because the story is so good, but it's the first time a near-omnipotent being is used in a Marvel story - he's called the Beyonder and he means business. One of the characters in this story becomes fully aware of his powers and becomes near omnipotent as well- he would later show up in a pretty interesting story involving our buddies the Dark Avengers.

Secret wars is from 84, so no, nothing to do with the skrull invasion.

That list I posted has the mutants that were stated (in actual comics) to be Omega level. From what we know of her capabilities I'd say we could easily call her that. Magneto and Apocalypse are harder to classify - Mags was pretty godly at certain points but most of the time he was merely a very powerful energy manipulator. Apocalypse is even harder to tag, since a ton of his powers come from Celestial tech, and I don't think it was really ever stated what he was able to do to start with. In his common form he has molecular-level control over his body and in a few comics he's a powerful telekinectic too, so maybe he counts, but it was never said.

Edit - Oh yeah, Secret Wars is also the story where Peter Parker gets the black uniform that would later become Venom.

I loveeeed the secret wars storyline. I bought the comics when I was a kid and got me into the marvel universe with all the great heroes vs villans and the beyonder story. I think I'm missing one issue out of that storyline.

I think D3 should put the Secret Wars story in the game

Unknown

I just
N eeded to say I enjoyed reading this thread
V ery much.
I never
S pent a lot of time, or
I nvested a lot of money
B uying comics as a kid. As much as I
L ove the movies, and watch
E very animated show I can find, I often

W onder why it took
O ver thirty years to finally
M ake time for this
A wesome hobby.
N evertheless,

N othing
E ntertains me more than when
E veryone on the forums
D iscusses their favorite epic
S torylines. It

A llows me to learn all about the

B est stories that Marvel has put out. If only I had
U nlimited time, I would read it all myself. But as we all know, that would take
F orever. Anyway, thank you to everyone on the
F orums.

Taganov

Haven't seen any discussion on this, but is IW going to be revisited? I know she was rebalanced once upon a time, I think about the same time X Force made his transition to top tier. I was messing around with her a bit today, and everything outside of her yellow ability seemed unnecessarily expensive/time consuming. Seriously, 8 matches (5 blue + 3 green) to pull her primary attack AND it ends the turn? She's in awful shape in terms of utility.

Unknown

I suspect she's on the list, but we don't really know the list right now. I asked them in the last Q&A what the list was, so maybe they'll tell us.

Unknown

Taganov

raziel777 wrote:

LMAO, why does this remind me of my wife?

Unknown

IW is a defensive character and there are too many powerful offensive characters for her to work unless you rotate out half of the commonly seen guys in high end PvP. You'd need something like a blind match + no boosts for defense to even have a chance, because it is very easy to prepare for any kind of defense when you can see what the other team has and boosts are incredibly in favor of offense versus defense. If you can boost 15 yellow only for IW on every fight, that'd get you an instant Invisibility which is as good as... nothing.

To illustrate the irrelevance of defense due to being able to see the team, imagine IW had her abilities changed to:

Force Bubbles - 10 blue AP. Creates a 3 turn blue CD tile which kills the opposing team when your team is on defense while locking all other blue tiles on the board. Does its current effect if on offense.
Invisibility - 10 yellow AP. Place a 3 turn yellow CD tile over any tile which kills the opposing team when your team is on defense. Does its current effect if on offense.

Sounds pretty unstoppable on defense, no? But that just means whenever you see Invisible Woman, you sub in Captain America who can get rid of any tile in the game anywhere, and she'd still suck.

qiwi-mpq

It's kind of silly to say defense is irrelevant.

If I just tweaked your example:

Force Bubbles - 3 blue AP. Creates a 1 turn blue CD tile which kills the opposing team when your team is on defense while locking all other blue tiles on the board. Does its current effect if on offense.
Invisibility - 3 yellow AP. Place a 1 turn yellow CD tile over any tile which kills the opposing team when your team is on defense. Does its current effect if on offense.

I'm pretty sure captain america can't stop that easily. And if the AI is halfway competent and the board is normal or favors yellow/blue, you're screwed unless you can kill IW in 2-3 turns. Certainly possible, but I would think most players would just hit skip.

Obviously this is an exaggerated example that will never happen, but that just means there exists some cost/skill powerset that should act as a good defense.

Off the top of my head, I'd think a good defensive skill set could involve some combination of the following:

1) Enormous defense tiles
2) Disabling all enemy team's powers of some color (heck, for IW, maybe she could put a force bubble in someone's brain and disable a power for the entire match)
3) Temporary invincibility (invisible means not being hit by anything, even AOEs)
4) Overpowered drain (not steal)
5) Reflect attacks

The costs would have to be low or passive

All of this would be great defensive powers that don't really help the offensive team deal dmg faster (other than maybe 5) if they tried using the same character.

That said, the real reason a defensive character like this would never happen is not that there's too many powerful offensive characters to overcome, but that such a character would be the ultimate PVE character and make PVE trivial.

MarcusGraves

-Force bubbles needs to be 9-10 cost with the strength of the protect tile lowered to match the cost.

-force field crush needs to pop all 8 force bubbles at max rank; Ranks 1/3/5 of FFC changed to 3/5/8 bubbles popped which would yield 5792 damage at max + the AP gained which is pretty 4* like in power, keep the turn ending.

-grant invisibility makes me wanna puke, I don't know what to do with it for now other than lower the base cost to make it more reasonable to use.

homeinvasion

I reckon they should give her AP steal/ Healing/ defence tiles like a 4 star OBW.

homeinvasion

I reckon they should give her AP steal/ Healing/ defense tiles like a 4 star OBW.

Unknown

AP steal and healing would make zero sense.

My guess is heavy board manipulation, something actually cool to do with force bubbles (probably a passive), and an offensive skill that did heavy damage using the bubbles.

Or, and this is only if they're going heavy heavy defense, maybe a passive that spits out defensive tiles like blade. It might be a little OP to have protect tiles that soon and for no effort, but it's a 4*.

Taganov

AP steal wouldn't make sense, but AP generation using crush would; that's an awesome suggestion. The move does end the turn. For changes to crush, I'd definitely agree with the suggestion that a level 5 crush kills all bubbles. If not, then you get to select which bubbles get crushed, so you can use bubbles strategically to lock, say a color, without losing too much damage to overlap.

How would one change invisibility? I only pulled it off a couple times. Thematically it matches IW, and on paper the cost of invincibility lines up, but in practice I'd much rather have shaken the screen twice, causing damage, possibly cascades while gathering AP/TP (edit) using Mohawk than generate a tile the AI always seems to know the location of.

Unknown

I don't like the idea of a 4* that generates ap. 4*s are meant to have extremely strong abilities that are incredibly good at what they do. If a 4* had an ability that had the specific purpose of generating AP, it would have to be something that would surpass hood's ability. And that would be game breaking.

MarcusGraves

ark123 wrote:

I don't like the idea of a 4* that generates ap. 4*s are meant to have extremely strong abilities that are incredibly good at what they do. If a 4* had an ability that had the specific purpose of generating AP, it would have to be something that would surpass hood's ability. And that would be game breaking.

AP gain could be limited to her colors only then to keep it more contained, she already has the effect of AP generation on FFC its just not an issue atm because its part of a combo that currently needs 22 AP total to function on a really junky char.

the force bubbles mechanic is honestly the problem with the character, core of IW is FFC but for it to even be used you have to have to use force bubbles first which is really overpriced and no one is going to pop FFC w/o bubbles out to use the add 3 bubbles effect. actually what they should do is raise FFC's bubbles placed if none are out from 3 to 5 at max, ditch grant invisibility and make it something cheaper that also uses force bubbles.

along with my other suggestions it would start to look like this

Force Bubbles - 9 (not sure on cost) (changed around rank up boosts)

Susan focuses her power to lock the enemy down and save the team. Locks 2 chosen tiles in Force Bubbles before creating a Blue Protect tile with a strength (lower protect tile value to be in line with lower cost)
Level 2: Increases Protect tile strength
Level 3: Locks 5 chosen tiles
Level 4: Increases protect tile strength
Level 5: Locks 8 chose tiles

Force Field Crush - 9 (also shifted around rank up boosts)

Invisible Woman shatters a 3x3 area around 3 random Force Bubble, dealing 42 damage and unlocking but not destroying it. If there are no Force Bubbles on the board, she creates 1 in a random location. This ability ends the turn. Generates AP for any yellow, green or blue tiles destroyed.
Level 2: Each unlocked Force Bubble does 84 damage
Level 3: Unlocks 5 random Force Bubbles or places 3 Force Bubbles
Level 4: Each unlocked Force Bubble does 168 damage
Level 5: Unlocks 8 Random Force Bubbles or places 5 Force Bubbles
Max Level: 724 damage for each released bubble

*New* Shockwave - 12-13 (maybe more because of FFC)

Susan unleashes a devastating shockwave of built up energy damaging the enemy team for (whatever value) and unlocks 3 force bubbles for an additional (whatever value) damage.
Level 2: more initial damage + more damage for each unlocked force bubble
Level 3: unlocks 5 force bubbles
Level 4: more initial damage + more damage for each unlocked force bubble
Level 5: unlocks 8 force bubbles

obviously this isn't perfect but it would give players different ways to play her. keeping the end turn on FFC for the sake of balance because I'd need to play around with a character like this to see if its needed (probably would be anyway).

3/5/5: more supportish with tile lockdown, stronger protect tile and AP generation

5/5/3: lockdown + protection leading into eventual team nuke but weaker on AP generation

5/3/5: we're going for the damage baby

please discuss and change if needed, I actually spent a lot of time on this, IW deserves to be a good character already.

qiwi-mpq

I think not having invisibility as a power is a deal breaker. I mean, you really need that. It's the INVISIBLE woman.

Short of a complete powers rework, if we were to tweak the existing powers, this is what'd I like to see from a max covered IW:

Yellow - 7AP
Place a yellow 3 turn countdown, choose a team member, that team member is invisible while countdown tile is there
Less covers would mean less countdown, random placing of tile, or being unable to choose teammate (lowest hp)
Perfect defensive option to protect a member who's dying in a match, but you still want to utilize one last power for them if possible

Blue - 3 AP
Place one force bubble. Force bubble locks tile and acts as a 200 defense tile.
No need for separate defense tile, just have the bubble be the defense tile. This allows IW to slow down the game quicker and bump the defense early in the match.
Less covers equals less/no defense, or higher cost.
I think it's not too overpowered for a cost of 3 considering she's a 4*.

Green - 9 AP
Break all bubbles. Deal 800 damage per bubble. But instead of gaining AP from the surrounding gems, have it drain that color AP from the enemy team. If it breaks 3 red gems, then the enemy is drained of 3 red gems.
This would keep IW as a defensive character and adds some strategy for the user to determine how to optimally place force bubbles.
Less covers means less damage or less bubbles, drain ability could be the 5th cover (similar to how xforce's surgical strike comes alive on the 5th cover)

yogi_

From this post, her special tiles cause a lot of grief for the devs and I think to be honest, it's just easier to get rid of. She is currently so niche and barely used.

To solve all these problems in one and based on her bio, you go something like:

* Invisibilty - "mental ability to manipulate ambient cosmic energy for a variety of effects, including the rendering of herself and other objects invisible, and the construction of solid, invisible force fields. She is also able to make objects that have been turned invisible by other sources visible by letting her own energy projection interfere with that other method of invisibility." - similar in intent to the current one but far more easily executed by becoming a tile manipulation skill, ie. primarily nullifying any enemy special tile, uncovering new ones to use against the enemy or swap them around. Like an adapted Falcon or Loki.
* Psionic Force Fields - "able to project a field of psionic force which she can manipulate into a number of relatively simple forms" - creates protect tiles and maybe enhances ones that are currently in play. Like an adapted Spider-Man.
* Shock Waves - "using her force fields as shock waves hitting her opponent" - some form of straight out damage.

I always thought she should become a 3* but given this investigation of mine, I now am not sure what to think and semi-think she should be retired.

MarcusGraves

qiwi-mpq wrote:

Blue - 3 AP
Place one force bubble. Force bubble locks tile and acts as a 200 defense tile.
No need for separate defense tile, just have the bubble be the defense tile. This allows IW to slow down the game quicker and bump the defense early in the match.
Less covers equals less/no defense, or higher cost.
I think it's not too overpowered for a cost of 3 considering she's a 4*.

gunna need to raise the AP to 5, devs will not give us anything below 5 AP anymore since they learned their lesson from spiderman/mag/rag

qiwi-mpq

Dino's purple is 3 and once in a while can cause cascades...

I think it's unlikely at 3 blue that it can cause that much havoc. The enemy isn't stun locked or anything, the board doesn't shakeup to make more blue, and technically you are getting less bubbles per AP compared to the original ability. If bullseyes in pve can make insane defense tiles off a passive and not break the game, IW should be just fine at 3 AP.

And I don't understand why yogi is on a crusade to make her a 3* lol.