**** Invisible Woman (Classic) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

JessyC01 wrote:

I asked this question in the dev Q&A last month and the response was more or less "we acknowledge her uselessness but we're more interested in adding new characters than adjusting existing ones"

I keep asking this question as well, pretty much every thread I can. Ice can revoke my mod status later if I'm sharing something I shouldn't, but I did get this from him via PM about a month ago:

IceIX wrote:

As for rebalancing (Mrs. Storm or otherwise), it's something we'd definitely like to do. <snip> I can most definitely say it's on our whiteboard of to-do's, I can't give a time on it though. Could be that we decide that R65 is a character rebalance patch and we lighten new characters in it. Or that could be R68. Or R72. I just don't have a definite answer to give on timing.

He also explained in high level terms what the roadblocks are, but given that I don't know what I'm allowed to share and I don't want to lose my mod status quite yet, I'm <snipping> that for now (and he can fill everyone in if he chooses to visit this thread).

Dayv

ronin-san wrote:

HailMary wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Umm... Iceman's power set isn't just turning himself into ice and building ice constructs. He can also manipulate on a molecular level and it extends to an environment level. He could literally think you into an ice block just because. No need to touch you, just have to be within the vicinity. He can change forms between solid, liquid, and gas. Has the ability to reconstruct himself and do other various things involving just air moisture that make absolutely no kind of sense outside of Marvel Science.

Whoa. Okay, they seriously need to buff Movie Iceman, then. I thought the limit of his power was basically shooting cold from his hands. Also, I apparently need to spend more time clicking around in the Marvel wiki.

Just to add. The guy can permafrost a city in a blink. He could reconstruct the melting icecaps (and end the notion of global warming) in less than an hour. Yeah. He's NUTS powerful. He had his ribs destroyed while in ice form, in the comics. He was afraid if he shifted back to human form, that he'd die. Nope. healed. He can heal damage done while in ice form rather quickly. HE IS UNDERRATED AS TINY-FREAKING-KITTY.

One of my suggestions for Iceman as an ability is that he puts down a timer tile that, when it reaches zero, explodes in multiple directions turning rows ( * or + based on level) into blue tiles. You know, the sort of rapid freezing. They could call it flash freezing or blast chiller. Obviously he gets a 3* equivalent Wind Storm which should also leave blue on the board. he should equally get a "Absolute zero" ability that ends all turns no matter the ability spent. Finally, he should be the first character to have overpowered (blue) matching. Make it balanced. Don't make ALL 3 of his colors do bonkers damage, but let the OP Windstorm ability leave attack tiles or something. Ooh, what if blues matched healed him similar to daken's auto-strike tiles or 2* Wolverine's yellow match heal? Menial amount, but still. he has so much potential.

I love Iceman. Totally my favorite character.

Also, he's made semi-sentient ice servants before. He and IW are basically demigods.

Then of course there's Franklin Richards, IW's son, who will eventually grow so powerful that Galactus becomes his sidekick.

T_REZ5000

Yes, creating bubbles in people's brains and making wolvie blind are impressive tasks. But everything I've seen her do pales in comparison to when she destroyed a celestial. And not just any celestial but one that towered above the others and was about to wipe out all of the watchers.

Beat that one.

Unknown

I find this funny. Many many months ago when I was still new to the forum, there was a similar discussion. I posted that IW was one of the most powerful Marvel characters. Several responses told me that she was strong, but not THAT strong. I figured that maybe I didn't know as much as I thought, and let it go.

Unknown

Meh, thing is that in the comics universe it seems that nearly everyone goes through a phase of being insanely powerful. I guess the easiest example is Sentry who people complained was massively overpowered in MPQ but... well... he was basically a supernerfed version of the comic version. Lets put it this way, Ares would probably refuse to go into battle against him in MPQ if it was more faithful to the comics

I'm comfortable with MPQ reflecting the more commonly percieved power levels of these heroes - so Iceman would be a dude who creates ice walls and shoots ice from his hands... not a virtual demigod, and Invisible Woman should be decently powerful but also nothing that would put her in the top tier of characters.

From a personal standpoint I understand why comic writers need to occassional employ these arcs to keep characters from getting boring, but if it was reflected in the MCU then villains would become instantly non-threatening and everything would be very boring. It would be the Superman issue that DC have - what can you possibly do to threaten a being that is virtually indestructible?

rednailz

ark123 wrote:

RefinedBean wrote:

cooderness wrote:

Now that we have a wide array of 4* that are viable to play, is there any time line for fixing the embarrassment that is Invisible Woman. I'm assuming it would require a large overhaul and beta testing, but the bag lady need some loving at some point, right?

I'm going to second this for a number of reasons:

SELFISH REASON: I have a good amount of covers for her, and I want to be POWERFUL, dang it.

COMICS-BASED REASON: Her power-set is off-the-charts in how awesome it is. I can't remember the name of the comic, but at some point Wolverine gets brainwashed into attacking and "disabling" the Fantastic Four. He deals with Torch and Thing alright, has some trouble with Reed but gets past him okay...and then encounters Invisible Woman, and basically has to flee. She made his retinas go invisible so that he couldn't see. You know, TO START THINGS OFF.

LOGISTICAL REASON: She's worse than most 2* characters, and that's stupid. She's a 4* character and should be at least on par with the higher 3* characters. Otherwise...why do we even bother with the * system?

Oh that's nothing. She can make invisible bubbles in a person't head and just outright insta-kill them. She can make giant long invisible spikes.

Quietly IW is one of the most powerful and deadly characters in all of marvel, together with ice man.

Ice man? I'm fiarly read up on my Marvel, new reboots aside, what am I missing with Ice Man being so infallible? He's not even a top tier X-Man, let alone top of Mrvel universe for powers.

rednailz

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

HailMary wrote:

ark123 wrote:

Oh that's nothing. She can make invisible bubbles in a person't head and just outright insta-kill them. She can make giant long invisible spikes.

Quietly IW is one of the most powerful and deadly characters in all of marvel, together with ice man.

A character who can make force fields anywhere at any time seems massively OP in combat... and would make for a horrifically/hilariously brutal psychopath:
"Oh, did you two need the tops of your heads? Sorry, I guess I swapped them just now. Oh, look, now you're literally hugging each other to death. That's just precious."

I don't see how Iceman would even come close to measuring up, though.

Umm... Iceman's power set isn't just turning himself into ice and building ice constructs. He can also manipulate on a molecular level and it extends to an environment level. He could literally think you into an ice block just because. No need to touch you, just have to be within the vicinity. He can change forms between solid, liquid, and gas. Has the ability to reconstruct himself and do other various things involving just air moisture that make absolutely no kind of sense outside of Marvel Science.

Meh, seen plently of heroes and villians deal with people in different physical states, no biggie, some heroes and villians are equiped to deal with states like time, metaphysical states, mental states, reality ect. He's strong, but nothing incredibley special. Would have to agree to disagree. He's never been that big of an oponent, but maybe in the new reboots they've worked him into something incredible

Unknown

rednailz wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

HailMary wrote:

ark123 wrote:

Oh that's nothing. She can make invisible bubbles in a person't head and just outright insta-kill them. She can make giant long invisible spikes.

Quietly IW is one of the most powerful and deadly characters in all of marvel, together with ice man.

A character who can make force fields anywhere at any time seems massively OP in combat... and would make for a horrifically/hilariously brutal psychopath:
"Oh, did you two need the tops of your heads? Sorry, I guess I swapped them just now. Oh, look, now you're literally hugging each other to death. That's just precious."

I don't see how Iceman would even come close to measuring up, though.

Umm... Iceman's power set isn't just turning himself into ice and building ice constructs. He can also manipulate on a molecular level and it extends to an environment level. He could literally think you into an ice block just because. No need to touch you, just have to be within the vicinity. He can change forms between solid, liquid, and gas. Has the ability to reconstruct himself and do other various things involving just air moisture that make absolutely no kind of sense outside of Marvel Science.

Meh, seen plently of heroes and villians deal with people in different physical states, no biggie, some heroes and villians are equiped to deal with states like time, metaphysical states, mental states, reality ect. He's strong, but nothing incredibley special. Would have to agree to disagree. He's never been that big of an oponent, but maybe in the new reboots they've worked him into something incredible

Here's an Iceman respect thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/ ... ct_iceman/

He's an omega level mutant. His powers are very close to local reality manipulation (not even that local since he has water omnipresence, meaning he can pretty much teleport to anywhere that has water).

rednailz

ark123 wrote:

He's an omega level mutant. His powers are very close to local reality manipulation (not even that local since he has water omnipresence, meaning he can pretty much teleport to anywhere that has water).

There's more than a few omega level mutants. I get that he's more than just a guy who makes stuff cold, my point is that he isn't a fearsome demi-god that can upset the marvel universe.

Unknown

rednailz wrote:

ark123 wrote:

He's an omega level mutant. His powers are very close to local reality manipulation (not even that local since he has water omnipresence, meaning he can pretty much teleport to anywhere that has water).

There's more than a few omega level mutants. I get that he's more than just a guy who makes stuff cold, my point is that he isn't a fearsome demi-god that can upset the marvel universe.

There were 19 omega level mutants, many of them are from different dimensions or dead. They are:


Charles Xavier (Earth-616)
Franklin Richards (Earth-616)
Gabriel Summers (Earth-616)
Jean Grey (Earth-616)
Hope Summers (Earth-616)
Emma Frost (Earth-616)
Matthew Malloy (Earth-616)
Robert Drake (Earth-616)
Absolon Mercator (Earth-616)
Rachel Summers (Earth-811)
David Haller (Earth-616)
Elizabeth Braddock (Earth-616) (supposedly)
Nathaniel Grey (Earth-295)
Franklin Richards (Earth-10235)
Quintavius Quire (Earth-616)
Joshua Foley (Earth-616)
Nathan Summers (Stryfe) (Earth-4935)
Takeo Sasaki (Earth-101001)
Jean Grey (Earth-101001)

It's arguable if Magneto and Apocalypse are Omega level.

I'd put him on par with Sentry in terms of power, vastly outranking everyone else currently in MPQ. Yes, Thor included.

ronin_san

Meh, seen plently of heroes and villians deal with people in different physical states, no biggie, some heroes and villians are equiped to deal with states like time, metaphysical states, mental states, reality ect. He's strong, but nothing incredibley special. Would have to agree to disagree. He's never been that big of an oponent, but maybe in the new reboots they've worked him into something incredible

You might want to read over when Emma Frost dug into him and "untapped" him. Bobby's biggest issue is a lack of confidence. That's what John St John plays with, and why we only see him go icy in the third movie. He finally pushes him to form. (in the X-Men movies. They actually get that discomfort and self-faith INCREDIBLY correct.)

He's not just "frosty, the self-skiing snowball". Dude. He's uncanny powerful. He could force someone arguably immortal like Apocalypse into immediate stasis. Similarly with Sentry. It doesn't matter that he's powerful. Bobby could instantly 0 kelvin the blood in his veins.

He's just doubtful of himself and his abilities. He needs a touch of narcissism. Gambit's way more powerful than how he's portrayed in the movies, cartoons, too. he can explode items in close proximity with but a look.

atomzed

ark123 wrote:

rednailz wrote:

ark123 wrote:

He's an omega level mutant. His powers are very close to local reality manipulation (not even that local since he has water omnipresence, meaning he can pretty much teleport to anywhere that has water).

There's more than a few omega level mutants. I get that he's more than just a guy who makes stuff cold, my point is that he isn't a fearsome demi-god that can upset the marvel universe.

There were 19 omega level mutants, many of them are from different dimensions or dead. They are:


Charles Xavier (Earth-616)
Franklin Richards (Earth-616)
Gabriel Summers (Earth-616)
Jean Grey (Earth-616)
Hope Summers (Earth-616)
Emma Frost (Earth-616)
Matthew Malloy (Earth-616)
Robert Drake (Earth-616)
Absolon Mercator (Earth-616)
Rachel Summers (Earth-811)
David Haller (Earth-616)
Elizabeth Braddock (Earth-616) (supposedly)
Nathaniel Grey (Earth-295)
Franklin Richards (Earth-10235)
Quintavius Quire (Earth-616)
Joshua Foley (Earth-616)
Nathan Summers (Stryfe) (Earth-4935)
Takeo Sasaki (Earth-101001)
Jean Grey (Earth-101001)

It's arguable if Magneto and Apocalypse are Omega level.

I'd put him on par with Sentry in terms of power, vastly outranking everyone else currently in MPQ. Yes, Thor included.

I am surprised to see that psylocke is also an omega level mutant!

pofruin

The whole Iceman thing: Its his defining character trait right now. He has powers way beyond what he can use. The aforementioned Frost episode showed him that there is wealth of abilityes he himself didn't even knew he had. So its only expected that in actual comics he is much weaker usualy with occasional teaser of of his maximum potential. And his personal drama is building up his character to fit the powerset he has .

Abot Marvel power levels: I have seen some poll on comics book characters power levels. Superman was somewhere along 5 place beneath Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer and Doctor Strange (who is walking talking literary device of entirely different magnitude from Batman ). Of the current roster Sentry is so much above anyone else in comics that it is realy wonder why he doesn't have like 17 star ranking or somesuch.

So I don't think comics is very good place to look for powerscales for the game...

About the theme of tha thread though: thus we go down to IW. She is weak in game right now. That is not argument even. The question is what to do with her from here. She does have very unique abilityes (that I find no less defining trait of 4 star ones than mere power), its just having utility or defencive powers costed same or comparable to offencive ones makes no sence. Offencive ones win you games right there. Others don't. She can be made into 4 star supporter for other teams, and in that role she can still be weaker than Hood or even ObW if she has unique abilityes. But as it stands she supports her team less than Colosus (who HAS pwerful damage skill, or skills even if you have someone good to through) or 3 star Spiderman who can support his team from turn 1 and can realy mess up oposition in late game with his stuns.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

There were 19 omega level mutants, many of them are from different dimensions or dead. They are:...

I'd put him on par with Sentry in terms of power, vastly outranking everyone else currently in MPQ. Yes, Thor included...

The reason everyone keeps playing MPQ is that Franklin Richard is imagining that the time you put into to quell the constant need for HP and ISO somewhat reasonable. Dude is OP.

Side note: What is even the criteria for Omega level? (more of rhetorical question, I'll look into it)

I'm not even sure if Wanda (Scarlett Witch) is an omega level. if they added her as a character and scaled to her power in canon, one of her moves would be imagining 98% of your roster slots never existed.

OnesOwnGrief

CorporealityBites wrote:

The reason everyone keeps playing MPQ is that Franklin Richard is imagining that the time you put into to quell the constant need for HP and ISO somewhat reasonable. Dude is OP.

Side note: What is even the criteria for Omega level? (more of rhetorical question, I'll look into it)

I'm not even sure if Wanda (Scarlett Witch) is an omega level. if they added her as a character and scaled to her power in canon, one of her moves would be imagining 98% of your roster slots never existed.

Franklin Richards is definitely the definition of being comic book OP when comes to everyone else. That type of thing is just senseless. As for what omega level means now, I couldn't tell you. At first it was omega level mutants, then there were omega level threats (Doom is actually an Omega level threat), then it just got out of control. There are way to many characters that are considered omega level with skill sets that could completely disrupt everything but they just don't go there often. That's probably for the better.

Unknown

Screw you all. This is a thread about Invisible Woman and buffing her in-game, not about comparing your Marvel creds.

I wish I wasn't so much of a goody-two-shoes - I would delete every post here that isn't specifically asking for IW to get buffed.

Or maybe I could just edit in a "Also: buff IW" to every post.

Unknown

Riggy wrote:

Screw you all. This is a thread about Invisible Woman and buffing her in-game, not about comparing your Marvel creds.

I wish I wasn't so much of a goody-two-shoes - I would delete every post here that isn't specifically asking for IW to get buffed.

Or maybe I could just edit in a "Also: buff IW" to every post.

Bro, do you even lift comic books?

I kid, I kid. But really, does this not fall under the umbrella of general discussion? I feel it all relates to MPQ as they're taken from the same source material. If not, I apologize.

And just to be safe, I really think they should buff IW.

Unknown

IW is the only 4* I have 13 covers for (Fury has 8, S&V has 7, Dino has 9, and Thor has 1). As such, I really want her to become as brutal as S&V so I actually have a chance against the constant flow of 270 S&V's that I see in PVP.

And I'm actually a late-comer to comic books. Had a few Punisher issues and a few Magic the Gathering comic books during the era of Fallen Empires, but I didn't get a Marvel Unlimited subscription until about 15 years later (about 5 years ago). Now I just read random series as able. Read the main Dark Reign series and surrounding story arcs, but other than that I just pick and choose - Civil War, World War Hulk, Illuminati. Working on some Deadpool series right now. Any recommendations?

Edit: Also: buff IW.

Nellobee

I enthusiastically recommend Marvel Unlimited. I have been using that to tear through Marvel's back library on my tablet. If you want specific recommendations, what do you like?

Also, IW could use some tweaking.

Unknown

I agree, but wide array of 4* ?

X-Force and Thor are awesome, but IW sucks, Dino is a joke just an annoying tank, and Fury doesn't look so great
For me at least feels like the Daredevil of 4* lol, traps? check, countdown tiles? check, move that needs ap of the rainbow? check, all awful things and high tiles to do it lol

it would be nice if they improved a bit any of them, although I get Dino was easy to get so they had to make him ****