**** Invisible Woman (Classic) **** [PRE 2015-04]

scottee

People forget that Force Bubbles are completely one-sided because it makes it difficult for humans to see cascades, but the AI can see around them. So while it has the same effect in terms of available initial matches, humans have a much harder time seeing how it will affect the board while this effect is essentially invisible to the AI. Another reason it's much bigger when handled on defense by the AI, but horrible on offense for the human.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

People forget that Force Bubbles are completely one-sided because it makes it difficult for humans to see cascades, but the AI can see around them. So while it has the same effect in terms of available initial matches, humans have a much harder time seeing how it will affect the board while this effect is essentially invisible to the AI. Another reason it's much bigger when handled on defense by the AI, but horrible on offense for the human.

No kidding. In the blue AP pump fights against IW I'm often looking at a board and say, "the game says there's a match in there but I don't see it" while the computer is not bothered by that at all. That's why I wouldn't mind 5 AP for Force Bubbles when used offensively because it's really not that powerful, but if you let the AI uses it at 5 blue AP there's going to be some serious pain each time you face IW.

Unknown

It this happened, we might see troll teams of IW, Spidey and Venom just to make game play difficult. 5AP is too low, 7 or 8 AP seems more reasonable. It's definitely overpriced as is. Plus, if it were 5 AP, if you ever managed to get invisibility out, you (or the AI) could indefinitely lock down all the tiles of that specific colour near the invisibilty token, giving you stasis in that area and an easy win.

Unknown

in the current meta game, defensive characters who suck on defense shouldn't be 4* to begin with.

Either make ALL defensive abilities faster Or just make her a 3* and refund iso to people who leveled her above 166

8k hp for a really really slow defensive 4* character is a joke in itself.

How about giving one of her abilities something similar to bullseye's passive in making shields when anyone matches green or blue or something that's guaranteed to go off before she dies on the 4th turn

I love the idea of making force bubbles cost like 5-7 for about the same number of force bubbles but have force field crush cost a lot less and destroy maybe a max of 3 / turn. Her yellow could only be decent if the cost is cut in half so I kind of agree with lowering that a ton because by the time you get that many yellow as it currently is set, anyone you'd want to protect would be dead.

On a side note, shouldn't she be Blue Yellow Purple?

Still waiting for that Yelena / Bagman / Invis Woman pvp

Nonce Equitaur 2

daibar wrote:

It this happened, we might see troll teams of IW, Spidey and Venom just to make game play difficult. 5AP is too low, 7 or 8 AP seems more reasonable. It's definitely overpriced as is. Plus, if it were 5 AP, if you ever managed to get invisibility out, you (or the AI) could indefinitely lock down all the tiles of that specific colour near the invisibilty token, giving you stasis in that area and an easy win.

People are coming up with strategies i never considered, so yes. Lets see if I got them all.

1. Lock down tiles of a certain color. (Pre-emptively nerfs Surgical Strike)
2. Lock down countdown tiles.
3. Lock down other special tiles.
4. Protect special tiles.
5. Give the opponent a bad board.
6. Free board shuffle by eliminating all moves.
7. Set up force field crush for AP gathering and damage.

Several good arguments for leaving Invisibility alone. Also good arguments to leave Force Field Crush alone,

Force Bubbles is currently a broken power, with a brokenness disguised by high cost.
1. Four uses can checkerboard the grid, making all moves impossible. There needs to be a bubble limit.
2. In IW vs IW, it's not clear if bubbles are a shared resource or not.

It might be possible to break the right game now. There are some characters with a strongest color (maybe): -- If an X-Force, IW, MNMags team goes up against a team led by one of these guys (might be unlikely), then X-Force can steal the blue on the board. MNMags can generate blue.

With all that blue, cast Force Bubbles multiple times. If the enemy team heals itself enough, it's possible to but the game in a tile-locked state. I'm not sure how the AI would handle that -- perhaps infinite refreshes. I've never seen a cascade or match happen on a board refresh, so it likely would go on forever.

Sandmaker

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

With all that blue, cast Force Bubbles multiple times. If the enemy team heals itself enough, it's possible to but the game in a tile-locked state. I'm not sure how the AI would handle that -- perhaps infinite refreshes. I've never seen a cascade or match happen on a board refresh, so it likely would go on forever.

When the board shuffles, does it shuffle the bubbles with it? Or does the bubbles stay in place while the underlying tiles shuffle?

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

daibar wrote:

With all that blue, cast Force Bubbles multiple times. If the enemy team heals itself enough, it's possible to but the game in a tile-locked state. I'm not sure how the AI would handle that -- perhaps infinite refreshes. I've never seen a cascade or match happen on a board refresh, so it likely would go on forever.

I kind of have a desperate urge to see this happen now.

Unknown

Since the reshuffle of the board never creates anything that already matches itself it should be able to prevent the game from being playable by locking 64 tiles which would be possible with 5 AP. It'll probably take less than that before you get to a point where stuff is just constantly reshuffled before things finally end up in a way such that the reshuffled move has a move that involves a tile that can be moved, unless the reshuffle has some criteria like ensuring at least one move that involves a moveable tile. But even then you'd have a lot of one move and then reshuffles.

Unknown

Given the general sense of AP generating moves there is no way D3 would go for a moveset that costs 14 AP to generate 27 (24? Does the tile under the bubble break when bubble shatters?). At 5, OBW gets 20 AP for 11 AP (9 gain), At 3 IM40 gets (3, 3, 2)*3 for 10 or 24 for 10. Twin Pistols is 18 for 15. I understand crush ends the turn, but I doubt very much you can get bubbles reduced to 5 AP. MAYBE 7.

Given their typical rebalance performances, I'd much rather see a redesign of how she works than just a cost rebalance.

Unknown

Theoretically, if you had lucky placement (or really worked at board control) you could lock down the board with 3.
Eg:









If you locked down all the black and blue in this diagram it would take only 24 locks, eg 3 casts. No matter how you shuffled the Purple, Green, Team-ups, Yellow, and Red, you'll never be able to make a match.

GothicKratos

I feel like 6 is the magic number. 5 feels too cheap - boosts and 4-/5-matches will trivialize using the ability, in my opinion (I say this because getting two additional AP off of a column or row destroyed by a 4-/5-match is pretty easy). 7 feels too expensive, because that effectively makes it every three 3-matches.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Theoretically, if you had lucky placement (or really worked at board control) you could lock down the board with 3.
Eg:









If you locked down all the black and blue in this diagram it would take only 24 locks, eg 3 casts. No matter how you shuffled the Purple, Green, Team-ups, Yellow, and Red, you'll never be able to make a match.

I think the bubbles get reshuffled as well on a reshuffle, but it's been so long since I last played IW let alone seeing a Force Bubble used I can't be certain.

Unknown

So time to re-fix Invisible woman, yes? (hears clapping)

OK

She's slow. Really really slow.

Lots of suggestions out there but what would make her viable in pvp? Something that might slow down enemies kicking your butt perhaps?

How about passives!

Every time you take more than 8% damage (see hulk) create a +100 shield

Done
Useable

Ok lots of people also mentioned lowering the costs of her abilities - well any character who's abilities cost as much as hers do will never be viable in pvp. Why? Well people can start off against them +6 to colors they need. With her whopping 8k health (a pathetic joke for a lvl 270) she currently ranks way below most 3*

I know everyone and their mother has all her covers so she won't bring in much money (unless people buy iso) but the game looks like it was made by a bunch of rookies when there's a range of completely terribad characters who you can't find any excuse to use even when they're required to characters that just break all game mechanics because they're so OP.

Lets at least keep 4* characters abilities something useable. I NEVER see her in any pvp scenario save for the old AI using Forcefield crush to end it's turn occasionally.

It would actually be nice to tweak all existing terrible characters after these next few are released before any new characters are released.

Hope that inspires the devs to fix Invisible Woman

Unknown

i doubt that your name-calling, sarcasm, and all-around negativity was particularly inspiring to anyone. Then again, maybe it's just me.

LoreNYC wrote:

So time to re-fix Invisible woman, yes? (hears clapping)

OK

She's slow. Really really slow.

Lots of suggestions out there but what would make her viable in pvp? Something that might slow down enemies kicking your butt perhaps?

How about passives!

Every time you take more than 8% damage (see hulk) create a +100 shield

Done
Useable

Ok lots of people also mentioned lowering the costs of her abilities - well any character who's abilities cost as much as hers do will never be viable in pvp. Why? Well people can start off against them +6 to colors they need. With her whopping 8k health (a pathetic joke for a lvl 270) she currently ranks way below most 3*

I know everyone and their mother has all her covers so she won't bring in much money (unless people buy iso) but the game looks like it was made by a bunch of rookies when there's a range of completely terribad characters who you can't find any excuse to use even when they're required to characters that just break all game mechanics because they're so OP.

Lets at least keep 4* characters abilities something useable. I NEVER see her in any pvp scenario save for the old AI using Forcefield crush to end it's turn occasionally.

It would actually be nice to tweak all existing terrible characters after these next few are released before any new characters are released.

Hope that inspires the devs to fix Invisible Woman

Spoit

I don't see any of that, so it's probably just you

MarcusGraves

a start would be to make Force Field Crush not end your turn

Unknown

A start would be remaking her completely

Houtro

I'm playing this game for like 170 days and only minutes ago I saw the first time Grant Invisibility, I mean something is wrong with her it ain't just the neck.
Grant her a 4* status please!

fmftint

My Invisible Woman cover expires in a few hours, should I buy a roster slot for her? (500hp)

ErikPeter

Yes, or just delete some unused 2* to make room for her. She'll be fixed eventually and you'll kick yourself for missing out.