*** Wolverine (Patch) ***

vudu3

Phaserhawk specifically said "abuse" so I was only listing abilities that you can use to stop your opponent from getting the strike tiles.

NorthernPolarity

Katai wrote:

Unless Patch is boosted, using 5-red is really tough to use. It costs a lot, and Wolverine will not own enough tiles for it to actually matter (incidently, also makes his yellow much weaker). The PvP, Patch's effectiveness with red will depend on if the featured character has red/green/yellow strength. Losing access to one or two colors severely reduces the effectiveness of his red. In PvE, the only difficult matches are the "Essential" ones where you are forced to take a character for the lead. Unless that character is severely under-leveled, Patch will have the same issue.

Although the drawback for Patch's green can be devastating if used incorrectly, I still think it's possible to stock up enough extra attacks to make it usable at the right moment. Hulk, Daken, Punisher, Psylocke, and Classic Magneto are some of my favorites.

With the introduction of better reds and greens, though, I think Patch is still useful if only for his ability to sustain himself for long PvE sessions.

So a couple of things (all talking a out post nerf)
1. I dont really see myself using patch post cmags nerf at all unless hes featured/buffed, in which case hell probably be able to tank stuff for tbti.
2. The essential nodes are actually among the easier nodes in the event. Community scaling doesnt hit those nodes as hard because not as many people actually have the character required to play the event. The hardest missions are usually the last one unlocked that isnt essential, which is a available to everyone

Random other responses:
1. The difference between 3 and 5 green is 450 damage in tiles, but with 3 green you can let out a lot quicker since you can deal with 3 tiles a lot more easily than 6. This means that the 3 green tiles are utilized a lot more, so i dont think its that much more damage.
2. I dont get why people are clamorong about rotp with his tiles: you get an extra 450 damage per person, which is fine but its not amazing.

My take is that im only going to be using patch with sentry daken in pve to tank world rupture, or during cage match. Forcing yourself to play a stockpile ap strategy with him in pvp seems like a hassle when you could just be rolling over people with characters that have no downside on the climb like torch. Since you wouldnt use him to shield hop or on defense after, the climb is the only thing that he will be used for in normal pvp, and if he cant really do that well, then i think most people will bench him.

dkffiv

vudu3 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

So assuming C.Mags goes to a random blue and a 5 AP red, is there any other way to abuse Patch's strike tiles or will he move from the most popular 5/3/5 to a 3/5/5 or 4/4/5?

There are a few alternatives to cMags--

Use Loki's Trickery to turn enemy strike tiles into friendly protect tiles after launching Berserker Rage
Use GSBW's Deceptive Tactics or MN Mags' Polarity Shift to cover empty pink tiles before launching Berserker Rage
Use Spidey or Bullseye's passive protect tiles to block pink strike tiles before launching Berserker Rage
Use Invisible Woman's Force Bubbles to block pink tiles before launching Berserker Rage

Falcon and She-Hulk can remove some enemy strike tiles but not all of them.

I've been using the Hood in PvE and not using berserker til I have enough for hood's yellow.

Unknown

With the limited roster in heroic venom, is it advisable to have Patch at 5/3/5? Or would it be better to go 3/5/5 or maybe 4/4/5? I guess the only way 5/3/5 would work is when you save some AP for a game-ending turn, since the other characters available do not have a way of dealing with the drawback of berserker rage (and most of them are squishy). On the other hand, level 4 or 3 berserker rage are somewhat safer. Any advice?

mags1587

I have used my 5/3/5 Patch in prior Heroics to good effect. You do want your Beserker Rage turn to be game-ending or near game-ending when faced with non-goon opponents. Still, completely doable, especially paired with cStorm's Windstorm or OBW's Espionage. If you can't win the match on the turn, just make sure Patch takes whatever damage is dished out.

orbitalint

I'm in the same boat. My Patch is 5/4/4 (just how the covers fell). I had a 5/X/X patch the last time he was available in a Heroic and I think I got hooked on the 5 strike tiles. With OBW and CStorm, it was basically 9G, 11B, gg. If I had to, I would let an OBW espionage match finish up the game.

So, for this Heroic, I'm ok having a 5G Patch. However, in the larger meta for Patch, I'm still waffling between 5/3/5 and 4/4/5 and 3/5/5 as a permanent fixture on my team.

vudu3

3 or 4 in Green is probably better for this Heroic PVE. If you still have your covers from the last PVE you might want to consider respec'ing down temporarily and then returning to 5/X/X after it's over.

Unknown

5/3/5 is more sufficient at the current levels for heroic Venom. It's not clear how this will play out once scaling kicks in. There's value in having TBTI at level 5, but because OBW is on your team this also limits the effectiveness of TBTI, as Patch can never take OBW's strong colors even with +90 levels, but dropping OBW from your team is also a very bad idea.

Phaserhawk

With C.Mags nerf oh so close, and having just claimed a Red cover for Patch, I am serious dilema on whether or not to repec him now to 4/4/5 or leave him as is with 3/5/5. Without Mags I think Beserker Rage becomes too risky, especially in buffed enviornments, those enemy strike tiles hurt, I had 3/5/5 for the longest time and switched because A. I use C.Mags, and B. TBTI is so hard to be effective. TBTI is okay at level 5 even if you are only tanking 2 colors just because the dmg from lvl 4 to 5 is so large, but if you only have it at lvl 3 or 4 you need 3 colors to make it decent. The differnce between lvl 3 Beserker and lvl 4 isn't much but it does offer more dmg, but the diff from lvl 4 TBTI to 5 is massive. However, like many of the characters, do you max a skill that you rarely use? If Patch is last man standing, TBTI will take anyone down lvl 3, 4, or 5. If C.Mags still has a decent red, even at 5 you would probably use it over TBTI which is why there still might be a shot for 5/3/5 but I do think that build is coming to an end.

Unknown

So after the cmags nerf this becomes second best character after sentry, yes?

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

So after the cmags nerf this becomes second best character after sentry, yes?

Err, he's not even the top of PvP or PvE even with Magneto around, so why would he suddenly be any better when his best combo friend is getting nerfed?

Berserker Rage at level 5 will easily blow your own face up now that you don't have the Magneto bailout if you're not careful. And if you keep Berserker Rage at level 3, you're probably better off running Black Panther. If you want someone with sustainability, Daken is still better. And if you're not using Berserker Rage, I'm not even sure why you've Patch on your team.

OnesOwnGrief

Daken is losing 1 Blue for healing and I much prefer Patch's Red over Daken's Blue. The strike tiles I can grab from someplace else or just use Patch. Daken will probably be the better bet for characters who he can cover Black and Purple though in my teams.

Phaserhawk

Agreed Phantron, post C.Mags nerf I think 5 Beserker Rage is too much liability and 3 just seems like a waste. That's why I'm leaning towards 4/4/5 respec. It's not all that much more on enemy strike tiles and the odds of that 4th tile being next to another to match is decent. Red will still be useless and while Mags may not be able to spam, I think he'll still be decent. Especially if red is 5-6 and does 800 dmg or something. Kinda like Marvels red, then his red will still help

Unknown

Do we all agree 5 greens wont make sense anymore with the death of cmag ?

Unknown

Right now I'm thinking I'll leave him at 5/3/5 because his biggest value will be dropping Berserker Rage on an overscaled all-goon team

Phaserhawk

Well after seeing new cmags. Patch will be 4/4/5 for me, maybe 3/5/5 but I'll see

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

Well after seeing new cmags. Patch will be 4/4/5 for me, maybe 3/5/5 but I'll see

Is the extra 150 strike tile really worth sacrificing a 50% damage boost for TBTI? Granted, TBTI is kinda bleh, but the only time you'll probably use patch anyways is in boosted events like the current heroic, and I think having the option to use a TBTI that actually 1 shots people is more relevant than that extra tile.

FierceKiwi

Phantron wrote:

5/3/5 is more sufficient at the current levels for heroic Venom. It's not clear how this will play out once scaling kicks in. There's value in having TBTI at level 5, but because OBW is on your team this also limits the effectiveness of TBTI, as Patch can never take OBW's strong colors even with +90 levels, but dropping OBW from your team is also a very bad idea.

Depends how crazy the scaling gets. I was able to run a 5/2/4 Patch in the last Heroic event without too much trouble. If the enemies get to 250-300 things will (probably) spiral out of control in a hurry.

Unknown

AdrianoD wrote:

Do we all agree 5 greens wont make sense anymore with the death of cmag ?

No, because you still get to pick the turn you use it and if the other side is all or at least mostly dead then that's still good enough. It's just that it's not like currently where there's no risk because Magneto can bail you out of any potential problem by spamming his blue/red a few times.

For example I was in the node with Venom/Daken/Ragnarok which is level 120 or so. They're all at relatively full health and I did Berseker Rage into Power of Attorney. Daken and Ragnarok died and Venom survived with about 5000 HP, he did 9000 damage to Patch on the next turn and I killed him on my next turn.

Now that looks kind of bad at face value, but it's not as bad as it looks, because:

1. This game ended very quickly. I do value my time even if it seems like I have nothing better to do than grinding nodes all day.
2. Patch survived with a few hundred HP in this case and easily regened that on the other nodes, so it's not even a net loss.
3. Even if Patch died, if that fight went on normally, there's a very good chance OBW gets dropped. Well losing OBW costs me one health pack too, so if I'm going to spend a health pack anyway why not pick the shorter option?
4. Venom/Ragnarok combo is known to be able to pull off some pretty crazy combos. It's possible I may have lost if they get some particularly crazy strike tile + Symbiotic Snare + Godlike/Thunderclap combo going.

So in this I think risking one health pack is not a bad tradeoff for a piece of mind. I don't know if it was the best outcome, and I certainly could've done even worse and lose the fight, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Normally I don't use Berserker Rage unless I see either a match 5 on the board, or I have several AP consuming moves to fire, or the enemy is sufficiently weakened (those 3 opponents are basically all at full health). This time I was in a hurry so I took the extra risks.

wymtime

I currently have Patch at 4,4,5 level 166 and have 1 green cover and 1 red cover that I will need to use or sell in the next 2 days. I want to know what do you think the best build for patch is and why? I am leaning towards keeping him at 4,4,5 because I want the 4th strike tile but I think 5 in green is suicide with the Cmags nerf. If Cmags only will overwrite opponents tiles and not mine 5 in green might make sense. The other reason I am considering this is it is very rare that I use TBTI so for me to use it he is usually the last man standing and then he controls all colors and even at 3 he would 1 shot someone.

Please let me know what you think and thank you for the advice.