Upcoming Versus Matchmaking Test - (Updated**)

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  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I appreciate the feedback in return.

    FWIW, looks like I"m still very tightly bunched with a group of people around my score, with difficulty of those teams ranging from normal (ignoring that 2*s have a big edge by having Ares/2* Daken buffed) to heavy (near max Sentry plus good 3* support).

    I'm at 437 right now, seeing only opponents between 400-499 pts. I don't mind the slightly increased difficulty, but I do mind it when I have to slog through it 20 pts at a time.
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
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    "David wrote:
    Moore"]
    *UPDATE (11/13/14)

    Hi all,

    We wanted to provide you with an update from the team at Demiurge regarding the Versus matchmaking test occurring in Nefarious Foes:

    "Firstly, to everyone that provided feedback on their experience so far: THANK YOU. We're not just saying we're thankful, we're showing it by sending everyone that plays in the Event an Event Token for the next Versus Event. You'll receive it at the end of Nefarious Foes.

    Secondly, we want to apologize for a mistake we made in the first few hours of this change.

    We were too aggressive in setting a parameter that limits the extent to which strong teams will be matched with weaker teams. In a test environment, where there are fewer teams, you'd still see a good variety of matches, but on the live server, the band was too small, and players were matched exclusively with opponents very close to their level. We corrected this roughly three hours in, but a lot of folks had a sub-par experience and that's our fault.

    We also apologize for running this test on an Event with a newer cover as the reward. We prioritized making sure that the test didn't affect a Season over other considerations, and wanted to make sure you had the chance to earn Mystique before her featured spot in the Simulator had passed.

    Third, please keep playing Nefarious Foes and providing feedback! This is a live test, rather than on a test server because Versus matchmaking can perform very differently at scale, and its behavior can be sensitive to the way that players interact with it. We needed a test with lots of real players actively competing to understand the full impact. A test with a few forum players wouldn't have helped us understand how the changes affect new players, and likely wouldn't have caught the mistake we made in the first version of Nefarious Foes' matchmaking.

    In news going forward, we released another update to the matchmaking today, but it looks like feedback has died down significantly. We're going to leave this change up until the end of Nefarious Foes because we need to know what the full impact throughout a Versus Event looks like. Once it wraps, we'll do an update with our findings. Let us know how this version compares to your experience in previous Versus Events!

    One of the big problems we're trying to eliminate with these changes: at times under the old matchmaking system, low-level players (some with their best characters as low as level 40) could get into a situation where they were being matchmade mostly against high-level 3* teams (we'd expect that to happen if they had climbed to the top of the rankings, but this was happening before that point). So we're particularly interested to hear if you're seeing opponents that are much higher level than your best team (taking the Event buff into account). We're also trying to smooth out the difficulty curve, so that as you advance up the leaderboard, the difficulty of your opponents increases more evenly than before.

    We realize we're extremely lucky to have such a dedicated, vibrant and attentive community. We absolutely do not take that for granted. We hope you'll join us when we make changes that improve the game for everyone. We fundamentally cannot improve Marvel Puzzle Quest without making changes. Versus matchmaking deserves to be better, and we want to work with the community to improve it.

    Thanks again for your feedback, and thanks for playing."

    slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif

    Woooooo! Communication, free stuff, and a peek into why things were done in the way they were? All in a fairly reasonable timeframe to boot?

    Who are you, and what have you done with the MPQ team?
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't see anything in that that implies free stuff
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Spoit wrote:
    I don't see anything in that that implies free stuff
    We're not just saying we're thankful, we're showing it by sending everyone that plays in the Event an Event Token for the next Versus Event. You'll receive it at the end of Nefarious Foes.
    It's not much, but it's something.

    Would prefer to get 4 Mystique covers instead of having to hop from 500 points onward, though.
  • Raffoon wrote:
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]

    "Firstly, to everyone that provided feedback on their experience so far: THANK YOU. We're not just saying we're thankful, we're showing it by sending everyone that plays in the Event an Event Token for the next Versus Event. You'll receive it at the end of Nefarious Foes.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ah missed that. that's pretty much nothing though
  • T_REZ5000
    T_REZ5000 Posts: 148 Tile Toppler
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    Just wanted to say thanks to the devs for being open with us about the changes being made and the intention behind them. This is a much better approach than keeping silent and allowing all sorts of crazy conspiracy theories to proliferate.

    I had quit when the servers went down during the PvE that introduced daken. It wasn't the server problems that got to me, but the complete lack of communication from the devs.

    I started playing again about 6 weeks ago and I can see that the devs have changed for the better. Keep up the good work! and fix sentry ASAP
  • a day further, although not seeing the high level opponents right at the start of the event, I am when examining the rosters of those I am matched up with, have a similar strength roster. Yet because of the selection of villains that are buffed, it still leaves the same problem (specific to this event) where I may be actually outmatched because the opposing player actually has three very strongly buffed characters and I may only have one or less, yet we both have the equal number of lvl 166 3 star characters. The reverse might also happen if the opposing player I am facing has no 3 star villains at lvl 166.

    As I said before the event gives a very skewed look on how this match making works because of the wide selection of buffed villain characters. I still think it needs a good test where only one character is buff, so you're dealing with less variation as a result of wider selection of buffed villains... if that makes sense?

    Or in basic testing terminalogy, keep as many variables constant and only alter a much smaller or ideally just one variable.
  • Dear David,

    First of all thank you for the good communication, updates and compensations in the last weeks. As for the Token to be given at the end of Nefarious Foes, please make sure it is a Mystique cover, as this PvP has been crazy for some of us. And for some of us, it will be very costly. Shield Hopping starts at 600...

    Here is my feedback :

    I joined the event when it nearly began. I had a few seed teams and then I started facing lvl 332 character. The names were quite familiar as they were mostly forumites and XMen. My bracket seemed "easy" though.
    After 3 or 4 matches (including the seed teams), I started to be attacked making the climb horrible.

    After one day, I was still around 500 points, being in the Top 5. A first in my MPQ experience. I did not want to shield at 400, but I could see some guys already shielding at 450. I decided to dedicate my time between LRs and PvE.

    While I'm at it #1, thanks for the change in LRs, the characters diversity makes it quite fun now. MMR in LRs is much better than it used to be, I don't know if that was changed also or if it's just a coincidence. LRs are definitely a pleasant experience and not only Iso grinding, so I play them more than I used to.

    While I'm at it #2, I've told you numerous times : you have to lower scaling for the big rosters or change the PvE bracket system or whatever. I can't bear to see "I joined MPQ last week" rosters on Top of my bracket with twice the amount of points I have, when I can't play myself because of scaling. This is not intended to make us buy Health Packs, I'm sure, but we can't be punished for having played a lot in the past, and paid a lot too, to have a big roster. I'm not the only one thinking that. With the Cmag nerf, the situation is NOT the same as it was. Yet, scaling has stayed the same. PLEASE FIX THIS.

    Back to the Nefarious Foes experience. Was playing a match or two (every 2-3 hours) when my characters had healed (not using the same in PvE and PvP) and was attacked rarely, but since I was very low, it was not a good thing. I remember being hit by Drucifer/Shamsali and the likes. Something struck me : during the first night I had been attacked crazily but the defensive wins gave me a bonus of 67 points (A first). I was unshielded.

    Now, every now and then I face "normal" teams like a Doom, a Capt Marvel... But most of the time, it is Cmag/Daken/Hood/Sentry, and points I am given are barely more than 20. Even if I skip.

    So overall, I don't mind the experience, but I think it's unfair that we have to use so much HP to climb, just because it is a test. I'll try to make a calculation of the overall cost and will let you know.

    Thank you for your time.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    arktos1971 wrote:
    So overall, I don't mind the experience, but I think it's unfair that we have to use so much HP to climb, just because it is a test. I'll try to make a calculation of the overall cost and will let you know.
    I'm not going to start hopping at 600.
    I will probably miss out on Mystique covers, but I refuse to spend HP on a failed experiment.

    Hopping to 1300, ok. Hopping to 900 - not ok.

    I'll get those covers eventually.
  • Bowgentle wrote:
    arktos1971 wrote:
    So overall, I don't mind the experience, but I think it's unfair that we have to use so much HP to climb, just because it is a test. I'll try to make a calculation of the overall cost and will let you know.
    I'm not going to start hopping at 600.
    I will probably miss out on Mystique covers, but I refuse to spend HP on a failed experiment.

    Hopping to 1300, ok. Hopping to 900 - not ok.

    I'll get those covers eventually.

    I don't even know how high I can go. I don't want to know how some Xmen could go as high as 1750...
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    arktos1971 wrote:
    I don't even know how high I can go. I don't want to know how some Xmen could go as high as 1750...
    Hopping off each other, one or two fights per shield. From 700 onwards.
    I don't even want to know how much HP they are spending.
  • UPDATE : passed 850 and now see 35+ matches. So shield hopping will go faster.

    I couldn't have more than 2 matches before getting hit (same as above 1000 usually).

    I'll update later.
  • _M4ru_
    _M4ru_ Posts: 91 Match Maker
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    Before : 600pts = top100
    After : 600pts = top5

    Hm... What's going on? icon_eek.gif
  • "David wrote:
    Moore"]
    We realize we're extremely lucky to have such a dedicated, vibrant and attentive community. We absolutely do not take that for granted. We hope you'll join us when we make changes that improve the game for everyone. We fundamentally cannot improve Marvel Puzzle Quest without making changes. Versus matchmaking deserves to be better, and we want to work with the community to improve it.

    You can improve the game for better making better changes, right? IMHO this tweak have only one real effect until now: sell more health packs.

    Demiurge is so bipolar: one day gaves us back our money ( but just after the community go crazy about the free 20 slots alliance ) and in the next day wants the money back, making the user spend tons of health packs and shields. Even in low points. if you dont do that, you never will get Mystique.

    This is a "better" game for who?
  • JBruno wrote:
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]
    We realize we're extremely lucky to have such a dedicated, vibrant and attentive community. We absolutely do not take that for granted. We hope you'll join us when we make changes that improve the game for everyone. We fundamentally cannot improve Marvel Puzzle Quest without making changes. Versus matchmaking deserves to be better, and we want to work with the community to improve it.

    You can improve the game for better making better changes, right? IMHO this tweak have only one real effect until now: sell more health packs.

    Demiurge is so bipolar: one day gaves us back our money ( but just after the community go crazy about the free 20 slots alliance ) and in the next day wants the money back, making the user spend tons of health packs and shields. Even in low points. if you dont do that, you never will get Mystique.

    This is a "better" game for who?

    I'm glad you could tell that. It's so true.

    I'll probably spend the refunded HP in the PvP and PvE just to get the Mystique covers.
  • user311
    user311 Posts: 482 Mover and Shaker
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    Pretty much wall of 300s for me from point 0. Every once in a while I found a 187 Ares, but he was paired with two 332s. Yes, thanks for that HP refund...
    Small HP refund 600
    - 200 Health pack
    - 100 Boost pack
    - 300 (4) shields
    ˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉˉ
    ... Thanks for nothin.
  • JVReal
    JVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm still fairly new to this game and try to avoid PVP because of scaling. I agree with some previous posters that buffing multiple villains (or any characters) in a "test" run of match making was not a smart move. Being inexperienced I can't tell you if its working or not because I'm coming up against rosters of buffed villians, while I myself don't have any useful ones... meaning, I'm not evenly matched.

    My roster of buffed villains:
    2* Daken level 80 5/4/4 - can't use him in PVP because I'm using him in PVE and I need him to heal up and stay alive and useful.
    2* Ares level 78 5/3/4 - hesitate to use him in PVP because I use him in PVE when my Thor is removed when he's an opponent.
    1* Jugg level 40 5/5 - My only one left that actually has an offensive attack, not a very big stick to wave around.
    3* Daken level 40 0/1/0 - No attack to use, just sit there healing and doing match damage.
    3* Mystique level 40 0/1/0 - No attack to use, and her Blue power would be stupid to use because Jugg and Ares are my only hitters and they need those reds and greens.

    So when I go into Nefarious Foes, I'm not stupid enough to lead any of my non-maxed non-buffed roster into a slaughter against other teams that are full of buffed villains, especially not knowing if I'm actually going to be evenly "matched" or not.

    I think I successfully won 2 matches after skipping a bunch to clear out the wall that was up from the first few hours of release. I would like to hit 400 and get some HP, but I highly doubt that I'll even get past 200 at this rate.

    I'll be trying more PVP during the next two segments of Simulator because I don't have Hulk or Hood. My fun for the game ended after placing #2 in my bracket for both Normal and Hard with Mystique, and then cashing in 6 Simulator Tokens (hoping for Hulk or Hood) and getting 2* Human Torch Green (i have him max covered), 2* Moonstone Red & Black covers (not worth dropping someone to make roster space), 2* OBW Blue (already have blues maxed, I want BLACK covers), 2* mHawkeye Blue & Purple covers (again, no roster room and not willing to drop anyone for him). Sucky draws in my opinion.

    What qualifies a cover to be in the Simulator Token pool? They are a character in one of the nodes you are battling against? Are any of the Essential characters in the Simulator Token pool? I was assuming they were... Kind of deflated that I ground for 2.5 days to stay in top 1-2 to win the tokens and get **** pulls, and without the Hulk or Hood for Essentials, my points for the remainder of the event will be minimal, and I watch myself drop from 1 in my bracket to 3rd today, though I have no use for Falcon yet, I just need to stay in top 400 since I could use a yellow Thor cover and some HP.

    Sorry my post went from PVP to PVE, but in my opinion they are related since many of the characters (at least the ones I have to use) overlap the events and to use them in one kind of prevents you from using them in the other.
  • FaustianDeal
    FaustianDeal Posts: 760 Critical Contributor
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    One thing I might have missed getting mention:
    This change kind of blows up one of the old notions of how to extend play time where I lead off with a weaker set of characters (not the A group, maybe I start with the C team) then, as my roster depletes I 'finish strong' with my best 3. This is also a necessity because as you climb the caliber of opponents goes up.

    If the new matchmaking algorithm is "best-3 characters, all-day, every-day" how is that fun? Shall we all sell most of our roster and just streamline down to have 3-4 copies each of sentry and hood and 1 daken for season simulator?

    Now that I think about it, awesome! In this world my roster is only 13 deep - so I save a bunch of HP not needing to buy roster slots ever again.
  • arktos1971 wrote:
    Bowgentle wrote:
    arktos1971 wrote:
    So overall, I don't mind the experience, but I think it's unfair that we have to use so much HP to climb, just because it is a test. I'll try to make a calculation of the overall cost and will let you know.
    I'm not going to start hopping at 600.
    I will probably miss out on Mystique covers, but I refuse to spend HP on a failed experiment.

    Hopping to 1300, ok. Hopping to 900 - not ok.

    I'll get those covers eventually.

    I don't even know how high I can go. I don't want to know how some Xmen could go as high as 1750...


    For the shield hop game where you pay to win, this is exactly the same as before only you start at like 600 instead of 1100. Shield, Queue up 2 or 3 guys, sentry bomb using +2 or +3 all, reshield. spend 100-150 or so hp every 100 pts. Rinse. Repeat. The ones who have high scores and just paying to get the scores - so this mmr experiment will exacerbate the rift between those who pay and those who don't.

    It's certainly unfortunate that they tried the mmr test on this pvp of all because the ridiculous boost the holy shield hopping trio get. Maybe better than BoP or Combined Arms, but certainly will not get a clear gauge of how the MMR removal really effects the game. One thing is for sure: Tons of server bandwidth will be freed up for all the people who will play much much much less now.