*** Mystique (Raven Darkholme) ***

esoxnepa

Phaserhawk also has a simpler fix for breaking the combo, but not nerfing Mystique.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25304&start=160#p312858

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

I have a better fix for MNM: Change Polarity Shift to and don't change it's blue generation potential, and leave Mystique the hell alone. There is some precedent for yellow conversion powers, Thor has one. Then it falls outside the chain of MNM -> MQ -> MNM. Then all you have to do is under no circumstances make a blue power that creates yellow tiles.

Unknown

ecir2002 wrote:

onimus wrote:

What, 1 less tile?

Of all the nerfs, this is the one you're upset about?

1 more cost and 1 less tile. The TGT needed te blue nerf, the IF purple needed that nerf. They changed MMN purple to stop the combo so they didn't need to change this.

Ah.

Somehow I missed the additional cost haha.

Good point then.

ZeiramMR

Two counterpoints:

1) Maybe they were splitting the balancing load to slow down Winfinite by putting smaller changes to both characters.
2) Maybe they thought Infiltration was speeding up Shapeshift/Masterstroke slightly too much as well.

Honestly, I think the Ragnarok Green is the most unbalanced balancing in this set of changes, but I may change my mind when I see the new Magneto power in action. The Winfinite combo can still be used as a normal playing technique, it just isn't a self-sustaining infinite turn now.

Unknown

lvl200+ Ragnarok gonna be sooooo much funner to face now...

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

They could have easily fixed her by just flip flopping the powers. If her purple was blue and blue purple it woudl have stopped the combo right there, I would suggest that before doing this.

Doesn't solve the root problem of MNM being too powerful of an enabler. Their solution attacks the root of the problem which seems like a far more sustainable answer.

Chrono_Tata

Any opinions on possible changes to her optimum build in light of the incoming nerf? I currently have her at 3/5/5 and have a purple cover that will be expiring today. I'm thinking even with the nerf, blue is still going to be more useful since my shapeshift tile never seems to stay on the board for very long, so I'm probably going to keep her the same.

Unknown

It's too bad that with people outraged by the other changes, this bad nerf slips through with less notice. Demiurge, you're double-nerfing one of the coolest characters on Marvel Women month, and it's completely unnecessary! I too would rather have the cost stick at 9 with one less tile transformed.

Not sure how IF gets to mostly keep his ridiculous ability, which is still the best active transformation move in the game.

Unknown

Hmm maybe they were worried about mystique blue feeding purple to IF and then both of them feeding black, I haven't seen that combo in a live form yet but its not without potential, and may explain some of the circle of nerfs.

Punisher5784

Agreed, I just started leveling her and now she's useless! Lower the AP back to 9

Phaserhawk

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Any opinions on possible changes to her optimum build in light of the incoming nerf? I currently have her at 3/5/5 and have a purple cover that will be expiring today. I'm thinking even with the nerf, blue is still going to be more useful since my shapeshift tile never seems to stay on the board for very long, so I'm probably going to keep her the same.

I agree. To me her only 2 options are 5/5/3 or 3/5/5, blue while nerfed is still core to spamming purple or black.

darkmagearcanis

Would this be a more suitable change to Mystique to lower the cost back to 9 AP?

Mystique (Raven Darkholme)

Infiltration - Cost: 9
Mystique infiltrates an organization giving herself ample opportunity to unravel plans. Transforms 4 random basic tiles that are Red, Green, or Yellow into Black tiles.
Level 2 - Transformed tiles could also be Purple.
Level 3 - Transforms 5 tiles.
Level 4 - Transforms 6 tiles.
Level 5 - Transforms 7 tiles.

NorthernPolarity

Shapeshift is easily mqs worst ability: im keeping mine as is.

Unknown

With regards to the above suggestion:the double color transformation is weaker than single color transformation, so 2 covers would actually be weaker than 1.

With the current infiltration at 1 or 2 covers, this power is just laughable; why would you even use it? Looks like it'll take at least 4 covers with the new implementation for the ability to be worth considering using.

darkmagearcanis

daibar wrote:

With regards to the above suggestion:the double color transformation is weaker than single color transformation, so 2 covers would actually be weaker than 1.

With the current infiltration at 1 or 2 covers, this power is just laughable; why would you even use it? Looks like it'll take at least 4 covers with the new implementation for the ability to be worth considering using.

I understand this. But if the forumites truly want to save the girl, then why not put out some ideas to help balance things that would appeal to the devs. Just complaining to them that it should stay 9AP does nothing. Its a quid-pro-quo deal.

Marc_Spector

agree 100% with Polarity. Keeping her 3/5/5.

Chrono_Tata

Infiltration is pretty balanced as it is and the only situation where it is unbalanced is being paired up with Magneto. Since they are already "balancing" Magneto, there doesn't seem to be any good reason to nerf Mystique as well.

If they feel that they must weaken Infiltration, then reducing tiles generated to 9 or 8 would be acceptable, as long as they don't increase the cost over 9AP. Other people have also put forward interesting proposals for her abilities in order to prevent possible infinite turns without crippling Magneto, such as switching the colours for Infiltration and Shapeshift.

Compared to other basic tile generation abilities (Iron Fist's, male Thor's, Grey Widow's, even post-nerf MMags), Infiltration is already not that good. There's really no need to weaken it further.

hesjingixen

Just wanted to agree. Less tiles AND less cost is overkill. I'd just assume keep the cost the same.

simonsez

Is she even usable anymore? I guess you could use her blue to feed IF, but I've got to believe there are way better pairings for him.

Unknown

The Mystique changes are the equivalent of a neurosurgeon bringing an axe to the OR.

The "winfinite" combination is not and never was foolproof, especially in the place where it is primarily used, in PvE when you hit higher-level nodes. Magneto's low HP are a huge liability, and even with boosting AP a bad board or a bad distribution on that first Infiltration leaves you open to having one of the links in the chain get downed... which is an insta-retreat. The Magneto changes alone don't completely nullify the power of the combo but makes the winfinite scenario much, much less likely. Given limited resources, that should be enough of a disincentive to flog that team.

As others have said... Mystique--on her own--is a moderately well-balanced utility character. Changing Infiltration is an over-reaction that will kneecap an already mid-end character into near-uselessness. There's really no need to bargain. "At least reduce the AP cost... etc." This is a bad change, period. Both the tile reduction and the AP cost increase need to be scuttled, leaving Infiltration as is.