Upcoming Patch R60 Discussion

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

IceIX wrote:

jojeda654 wrote:

So C.Daken keeps 2 Stikes tiles per green match a lvl 5, but DA drops down to 1. Not too bad I guess.

Also, is only DA changing his strong colors?

No, Classic is changing as well. Updated, thanks!

New color strengths are Black->Purple->Blue

Nooooooooooooo

Daken can't tank for OBW purple/blue

That's actually... awesome?

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Trisul wrote:

IceIX wrote:

jojeda654 wrote:

So C.Daken keeps 2 Stikes tiles per green match a lvl 5, but DA drops down to 1. Not too bad I guess.

Also, is only DA changing his strong colors?

No, Classic is changing as well. Updated, thanks!

New color strengths are Black->Purple->Blue

Nooooooooooooo

Daken can't tank for OBW purple/blue

That's actually... awesome?

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

A total of 3-4 times before she's dead?

Trisul

gamar wrote:

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

If Daken was Purple -> Blue -> Black, then you can CHOOSE whether he or OBW tanks blue/purple depending on your position.

Now, you have no choice. OBW tanks blue and purple, period.

I wish I had the choice, especially now that he no longer tanks green for Torch.

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

gamar wrote:

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

If Daken was Purple -> Blue -> Black, then you can CHOOSE whether he or OBW tanks blue/purple depending on your position.

Now, you have no choice. OBW tanks blue and purple, period.

I wish I had the choice, especially now that he no longer tanks green for Torch.

True

Trisul

The imagined 2* team of Daken, Torch, OBW tanking colors (regardless of position):

Red: Torch
Green: Torch
Yellow: Torch
Blue: OBW
Purple: OBW
Black: Daken

Torch is squishy

Unknown

Oh, I got this - LDaken can now tank for Loki!

Actually Patch + LDaken + Loki doesn't sound all that bad.

Unknown

A slightly longer reply regarding the LDaken nerf.

There's two issues that I have with the change to LDaken. First, least importantly, is the adjustment to his healing (increasing the number of blues needed to avoid taking damage) amounts to a damage nerf because players will be forced to take fewer blue tiles reducing the number of Chemical Reaction attacks he can fire. Alternatively, it increases the passive damage LDaken takes. I just don't see the need for it given how little damage his Chemical Reaction actually inflicts (compared to other attacks at the same level). Also, his healing is helpful but far from game changing. The majority of the time, LDaken is taken out in one round once a player has amassed their AP for their powers so the healing actually impacts the game very little. I see this nerf as unfortunate and entirely unnecessary.

The second, more important issue, is the nerf to his strike tiles. As I mentioned in a previous reply, the only time his strike tiles become an issue is when he's combined with characters capable of regularly creating cascades. Otherwise, Pheromone Rage is actually a very weak power. No, really. Think about it. At five covers, it increases damage by 136 per activation per AP combo. Compare that to any other character's five cover, max level attack. It _literally_ would take somewhere between 10 to 20 turns to do the same amount of damage that most characters can inflict in somewhere between 3 or 4 turns, on average (turns to collect their AP to activate their power). Look at LThor or Grey Black Widow (two heavy hitters) and look at how much damage they are able to inflict once they get the greens for their abilities (which typically takes about five turns or so). Now compare that to how much additional damage PR will have inflicted in the same amount of time. Remember to factor in that many of the strike tiles, over that time frame, will be consumed as the player or the computer combines the red AP. It's not even vaguely close - LTHor or GBW (or any other character you'd like to discuss) are going to do dramatically more damage than LDaken. Pheremone Rage, when compared to the other attacks, is not a threat. It's a nice boost that can help tip the scales in the player's favour, but it isn't a major threat. It's made even less of a threat when one factors in the issue that using Chemical Reaction reduces his strike tiles on top of the fact that combining red tiles (by the player or computer) also erases the strike tile. Yes, the strike tiles boost the damage of Chemical Reaction but they're then consumed, negating the ongoing damage from the strike tile.

This is for a FIVE COVER ABILITY.

In an average game, any other five cover attack is going to inflict significantly more damage than Pheromone Rage would be responsible for and would do so it much less time.

Except in those situations where he's combined with cascade-causing characters. The soon-to-be-fixed Magneto and the still-in-need-of-fixing Sentry are capable of generating cascades almost at will with cheap powers that are capable of inflicting considerable damage on their own. When combined with Pheromone Rage, it _feels_ like PR is overpowered but that's only because it's on top of a power that is already (debatably) overpowered on its own. PR truly is only an issue when combined with powers that are able to regularly create AP combos in order to benefit from the strike tiles.

I realize the nerf to Pheromone Rage is relatively minor (136 down to 92) but it's a nerf to an ability that, in truth, is already weaker than the vast majority of other five cover attacks. It's only when combined with characters who are renowned for being overpowered, cascade-friendly beasts on their own that PR appears to be an issue.

You're fixing the wrong thing. LDaken is fine as is and entirely in line with the rest of the 3* characters - powerful and able to help you win a fight but certainly beatable. There are characters who need fixing. You've fixed (incredibly well, I'll again point out) one of them. Look at the others that need fixing.

Unknown

whisper wrote:

The second, more important issue, is the nerf to his strike tiles. As I mentioned in a previous reply, the only time his strike tiles become an issue is when he's combined with characters capable of regularly creating cascades. Otherwise, Pheromone Rage is actually a very weak power. No, really. Think about it. At five covers, it increases damage by 136 per activation per AP combo. Compare that to any other character's five cover, max level attack. It _literally_ would take somewhere between 10 to 20 turns to do the same amount of damage that most characters can inflict in somewhere between 3 or 4 turns, on average (turns to collect their AP to activate their power). Look at LThor or Grey Black Widow (two heavy hitters) and look at how much damage they are able to inflict once they get the greens for their abilities (which typically takes about five turns or so).

What the

I wish I had your boards where you can "typically" get CoTS or Sniper Rifle AP in five turns

Also, of COURSE Pheremone Rage doesn't do as much damage as CoTS. It doesn't use up the AP. You're getting 136/272/544+ "free" bonus damage every turn AS YOU BUILD CoTS or Sniper Rifle

Unknown

whisper wrote:

At five covers, it increases damage by 136 per activation per AP combo. Compare that to any other character's five cover, max level attack. It _literally_ would take somewhere between 10 to 20 turns to do the same amount of damage that most characters can inflict in somewhere between 3 or 4 turns, on average

It's a passive.

Unknown

SO what is the story with daken healing and such, is it 7 tiles 8 what, still typos in there

And what are people going on about, ok he cant tank green but he still makes the tiles using green matches right?

reckless442

Savaged49 wrote:

SO what is the story with daken healing and such, is it 7 tiles 8 what, still typos in there

And what are people going on about, ok he cant tank green but he still makes the tiles using green matches right?

Currently, one of Daken's strong colors is green, so he tanks green for a lot of other characters. When he matches green, he triggers the tiles. That is now changed to blue. So Daken doesn't tank for green any more. Even more, to get the benefit of match damage, Daken now would have to take blue tiles -- which decreases the number of blue tiles on the board and increases the odds of triggering hp loss due to heat (which now loses hp even more easily because there needs to be one more blue tile on the board than before). As people have pointed out, it doesn't make sense for Daken's strong match tile to be the color of the tile that increases the damage he takes. There already was an issue with pheromone rage being a blue AP power, i.e., you needed to take some blue to use PR, which could result in damage, but it made more sense for Daken's strong match tile value to be in the color that generates the strike tiles -- green.

Spoit

gamar wrote:

Trisul wrote:

IceIX wrote:

jojeda654 wrote:

So C.Daken keeps 2 Stikes tiles per green match a lvl 5, but DA drops down to 1. Not too bad I guess.

Also, is only DA changing his strong colors?

No, Classic is changing as well. Updated, thanks!

New color strengths are Black->Purple->Blue

Nooooooooooooo

Daken can't tank for OBW purple/blue

That's actually... awesome?

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

I'm....not following? 3*s have 79/70/61, 2*s have 55/49/43. It's impossible for the 2*s strong color to even tank for the 3*s weak color?

dr tinykittylove

Come on, it makes no sense to turn Mag's purple blue. Loki also does board shuffling on purple, should he be turned blue too? Make Magneto's strong colour purple instead, there are way too few purple skills as it is.

GSBW and MNMags also control the board with purple, and Deadpool does good damage on purple too.

Plus, it matches his costume better, or is the blue for his pretty blue eyes?

Edit: please keep him at red/blue/purple, or whatever, just keep his purple. The yellow never made sense and should have been switched away like gsbw's strong colours.

Unknown

Where is the Daken change thread sticky?

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

gamar wrote:

Trisul wrote:

Nooooooooooooo

Daken can't tank for OBW purple/blue

That's actually... awesome?

OBW gets to "double dip" on Daken's strike tiles when she tanks for him.

I'm....not following? 3*s have 79/70/61, 2*s have 55/49/43. It's impossible for the 2*s strong color to even tank for the 3*s weak color?

I assumed he was talking about 2* Daken and 2* OBW

wade66

reckless442 wrote:

Savaged49 wrote:

SO what is the story with daken healing and such, is it 7 tiles 8 what, still typos in there

And what are people going on about, ok he cant tank green but he still makes the tiles using green matches right?

Currently, one of Daken's strong colors is green, so he tanks green for a lot of other characters. When he matches green, he triggers the tiles. That is now changed to blue. So Daken doesn't tank for green any more. Even more, to get the benefit of match damage, Daken now would have to take blue tiles -- which decreases the number of blue tiles on the board and increases the odds of triggering hp loss due to heat (which now loses hp even more easily because there needs to be one more blue tile on the board than before). As people have pointed out, it doesn't make sense for Daken's strong match tile to be the color of the tile that increases the damage he takes. There already was an issue with pheromone rage being a blue AP power, i.e., you needed to take some blue to use PR, which could result in damage, but it made more sense for Daken's strong match tile value to be in the color that generates the strike tiles -- green.

I personally think it makes sense to a degree. It reflects the self destructive nature of a drug addict

yogi_

We're still persisting with this failed "false healing" mechanic, devs?

"Burst of health" = as soon as you see this, it is instantly heading towards 5 covers for whatever the other two colours are.

It hasn't worked for Spidey or She-Hulk* - not sure why you think it's going to work now. [Slight current exception for Black Widow (Original) who has strong other colours but there are different circumstances at play. In future could see this changed to a stun-focused ability like her sisters].

I counted once and you have such a mish-mash of variables (eg. at least - in game temporary, in game permanent, star rankings of healing, daken/wolv/spidey/hulks faster) that impact healing, where really there should only be one, possibly two, for consistency and clarity.

* I keep thinking there is another 3* with it, but can't work out who. Maybe there isn't.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

What the

I wish I had your boards where you can "typically" get CoTS or Sniper Rifle AP in five turns

Also, of COURSE Pheremone Rage doesn't do as much damage as CoTS. It doesn't use up the AP. You're getting 136/272/544+ "free" bonus damage every turn AS YOU BUILD CoTS or Sniper Rifle

The other day someone posted he got a game where he had 5 straight green matches in a row and fired off a COTS on turn 6! Though of course that's kind of a 'I won the MPQ lottery' event.

Getting a COTS by turn 5 was hard even while taking 15 extra turns with Magneto helping out since Magnetic Field collects pretty much random AP.

Unknown

I'm not sure what's the complain over you got to match blue for match damage. Match damage is a relatively small portion of your total damage with Daken out because the strike tiles account for most damage there and by the time you got strike tiles rolling it doesn't matter if you're matching TUs or even your weakest color because strike tiles add equally. Right now if you're not using Magneto you don't have much reason to touch blue. I guess you can get them if you run Nick Fury but Nick Fury + Daken is a very bad combination (no Demolition on defense, Chemical Reaction can destroy Escape Plan strike tile). With the impending Magneto nerf blue is likely a color you won't touch for a long time so it hardly matters who is tanking that color or how strong the match strength is. Losing green for his strongest match does hurt since green is a color commonly seen in the strong characters but you always want Daken to tank if at all possible, so the net result is the green user of your team will be taking more damage, while tanking blue is unlikely to have any benefit because you shouldn't be matching blue in the first place.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

I'm not sure what's the complain over you got to match blue for match damage. Match damage is a relatively small portion of your total damage with Daken out because the strike tiles account for most damage there and by the time you got strike tiles rolling it doesn't matter if you're matching TUs or even your weakest color because strike tiles add equally. Right now if you're not using Magneto you don't have much reason to touch blue. I guess you can get them if you run Nick Fury but Nick Fury + Daken is a very bad combination (no Demolition on defense, Chemical Reaction can destroy Escape Plan strike tile). With the impending Magneto nerf blue is likely a color you won't touch for a long time so it hardly matters who is tanking that color or how strong the match strength is. Losing green for his strongest match does hurt since green is a color commonly seen in the strong characters but you always want Daken to tank if at all possible, so the net result is the green user of your team will be taking more damage, while tanking blue is unlikely to have any benefit because you shouldn't be matching blue in the first place.

Plus at the teritary level, he only tanks for gold bagman, IM40, and LCap