No Holds Barred

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  • the moose wrote:
    Although I already have 4 blue and 2 purple so its very little gain. Especially when i dont want to go to 3 purple because with any decent team i use the black ap steal is useless. I hate when I have to choose not to level an ability to keep it from being less effective while costing more ap (I''m looking at you IM40).

    I had the same hesitation going to 3 purple, but I can tell you that the extra AP doesn't make much of a difference. I play original Widow quite a lot, and here's what I've noticed:

    - With boosts, your first purple match enables the ability, whether you're at 2 purple or 3.
    - Without boosts, it's uncommon to find yourself with 7 but not 8.
    - I trigger double recons almost as often as I used to at 2-purple, but it's rare that I actually want to trigger doubles since the enemy rarely has enough AP for me to want to spend a second recon right away.
    - The black steal is occasionally useful, e.g. in Lightning rounds against Doom, against high-level PvE Venoms, etc. Might also become more useful in the future for pairing with Doom or Punisher.
    - I don't usually think of the level cap as a major consideration, but there's that too.

    For me the big question is whether to go to 4 purple. At the moment I'm leaning no, because 10 AP is a big difference over 8 (significantly harder to trigger a second one, not guaranteed to be ready on the first purple match, rare for me to want to steal 4 instead of 3). But the black passive might change my mind, depending on how often I'm able to steal purple.

    Totally agree on IM40 though. Slowly becoming convinced that 2-yellow is where it's at.

    Hmm... Well you've given me something to think about. I still definitely won't go higher then level 3 Purple because the jump to 10 is a little harder to justify. It makes sense that 8 isn't really tougher to get then 7. And then it allows me to max her levels so her maxed black does more damage. Thanks for the tips. Original Widow, I'm coming for you
  • Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.
  • the moose wrote:
    Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.

    I agree it would make him more useful, but the issue is that you've already received at least one benefit from pumping an extra yellow cover in - an increase to his level cap. If you start letting people choose what level of ability to use (other characters like Black Widow (Original) for instace) while still letting them benefit from the higher level, it creates an overpowered character.

    You could have a level 141 IM40 that could recharge his red blast with only two yellow matches but still benefit from the extra bunch of levels in terms of Red damage. It would unbalance the character in the opposite direction.
  • jozier wrote:
    the moose wrote:
    Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.

    I agree it would make him more useful, but the issue is that you've already received at least one benefit from pumping an extra yellow cover in - an increase to his level cap. If you start letting people choose what level of ability to use (other characters like Black Widow (Original) for instace) while still letting them benefit from the higher level, it creates an overpowered character.

    You could have a level 141 IM40 that could recharge his red blast with only two yellow matches but still benefit from the extra bunch of levels in terms of Red damage. It would unbalance the character in the opposite direction.

    Lol @ IM40 being overpowered
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    jozier wrote:
    the moose wrote:
    Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.

    I agree it would make him more useful, but the issue is that you've already received at least one benefit from pumping an extra yellow cover in - an increase to his level cap. If you start letting people choose what level of ability to use (other characters like Black Widow (Original) for instace) while still letting them benefit from the higher level, it creates an overpowered character.

    You could have a level 141 IM40 that could recharge his red blast with only two yellow matches but still benefit from the extra bunch of levels in terms of Red damage. It would unbalance the character in the opposite direction.

    Lol @ IM40 being overpowered

    I wasn't just talking about IM40, I was talking about every single character that has an increase in AP for each cover you add to a skill.

    And also a level 141 IM40 that can trigger his unibeam within 2 turns of the start of a match is a pretty decent character. That's 3559 damage.
  • jozier wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    jozier wrote:
    the moose wrote:
    Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.

    I agree it would make him more useful, but the issue is that you've already received at least one benefit from pumping an extra yellow cover in - an increase to his level cap. If you start letting people choose what level of ability to use (other characters like Black Widow (Original) for instace) while still letting them benefit from the higher level, it creates an overpowered character.

    You could have a level 141 IM40 that could recharge his red blast with only two yellow matches but still benefit from the extra bunch of levels in terms of Red damage. It would unbalance the character in the opposite direction.

    Lol @ IM40 being overpowered

    I wasn't just talking about IM40, I was talking about every single character that has an increase in AP for each cover you add to a skill.

    And also a level 141 IM40 that can trigger his unibeam within 2 turns of the start of a match is a pretty decent character. That's 3559 damage.

    Magneto laughs at that damage icon_e_smile.gif
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    jozier wrote:
    the moose wrote:
    Someone had a great suggestion to fix IM40's yellow (and by extension similar abilities). That is to let the player choose which level of ability to use. If you have a level 3 yellow and 10 yellow ap, you would get to decide whether you wanted to spend 6, 8, or 10 ap for the respective effect of the countdown tiles placed. That would be sweet and would easily fix the problem. IM40 has been my standard 3rd slot for my team (Thor and Wolvie), but I find that he isn't very useful. Thor's reds are better in my opinion and IM's blue takes too long to charge. So he is there basically for his yellow, which Isn't all that useful actually because with a few more yellows Thor's Thunder Strike and Mjolnir (combined with Feral claws) are ready to end the match. So I'm currently trying to think of a better 3rd for the team. With a few tweaks (or a buff) it could still be IM40.

    I agree it would make him more useful, but the issue is that you've already received at least one benefit from pumping an extra yellow cover in - an increase to his level cap. If you start letting people choose what level of ability to use (other characters like Black Widow (Original) for instace) while still letting them benefit from the higher level, it creates an overpowered character.

    You could have a level 141 IM40 that could recharge his red blast with only two yellow matches but still benefit from the extra bunch of levels in terms of Red damage. It would unbalance the character in the opposite direction.

    Lol @ IM40 being overpowered

    Yeah to be honest it wouldn't make him overpowered IMO, it would just barely make him powered. Especially considering that the AI makes him a hindrance on defense. IM40 doesn't scare me one bit on defense, actually i welcome him no matter what his level because he makes thor so much easier to beat. The AI triggers an ability as soon as it is ready to go. In IM40's case this creates countdown tiles (that I can destroy) and robs Thor of his most powerful ability. IM40 needs some sort of tweak to make him relevant outside of events where he is buffed and required. Its either something like this or reduce the cost of his other abilities or something. Currently I am cosidering replacing my Level 87 IM40 with my level 43 Modern Hawkeye. That shouldn't be happening but its a serious consideration becuase IM40 is such weaksauce.
  • I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).

    How is it any different from spamming Ragnarok's red? He needs 16 blue, and is presumably starting with 6. The rest he can get with one cast of Mag's purple unless the board setup as awful (again, starting with 6 most likely). So, one purple match = game over.
  • Misguided wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).

    How is it any different from spamming Ragnarok's red? He needs 16 blue, and is presumably starting with 6. The rest he can get with one cast of Mag's purple unless the board setup as awful (again, starting with 6 most likely). So, one purple match = game over.

    You're forgetting the black needed. And boosts, making him not gain any iso. Whereas I can just retaliate brainlessly using no boosts.

    Anyways, this guy sure is persistent. We've attacked each other 10 times in the last 20 minutes. There should be a system in place to prevent this many attacks by the same person lol.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    And boosts, making him not gain any iso. Whereas I can just retaliate brainlessly using no boosts.

    I'm so happy to not feel any need whatsoever to use boosts for once. I used them for some stuff in Hunt and a lot of matches in Doom (because 10k Doom + 5-7k Rags is slow going).
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    Misguided wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).

    How is it any different from spamming Ragnarok's red? He needs 16 blue, and is presumably starting with 6. The rest he can get with one cast of Mag's purple unless the board setup as awful (again, starting with 6 most likely). So, one purple match = game over.

    You're forgetting the black needed. And boosts, making him not gain any iso. Whereas I can just retaliate brainlessly using no boosts.

    Anyways, this guy sure is persistent. We've attacked each other 10 times in the last 20 minutes. There should be a system in place to prevent this many attacks by the same person lol.
    I dunno, in the last week or so, it seems like my matchmaking sometimes gets 'stuck' with only a half dozen or so people to fight. If there's only one with worthwhile points....
  • BaineeBainee Age Unconfirmed Posts: 139 Tile Toppler
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    Misguided wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).

    How is it any different from spamming Ragnarok's red? He needs 16 blue, and is presumably starting with 6. The rest he can get with one cast of Mag's purple unless the board setup as awful (again, starting with 6 most likely). So, one purple match = game over.

    You're forgetting the black needed. And boosts, making him not gain any iso. Whereas I can just retaliate brainlessly using no boosts.

    Anyways, this guy sure is persistent. We've attacked each other 10 times in the last 20 minutes. There should be a system in place to prevent this many attacks by the same person lol.

    When I run into situations like this I will seek them out after I retaliate to double or triple hit them before they can hit me back. Most times they back down.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    Misguided wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    I'm pretty offended this 85 Marvel now Mag, 85 spidey, 35 venom keeps attacking my 125 spidey / 95 classic mag / 115 ragnarok

    obviously hes using mags to feed blues to spidey for a team-wide devour (and my own spidey is helping him) but I can't imagine him having fun (it takes me a fraction of the time and effort to retaliate back).

    How is it any different from spamming Ragnarok's red? He needs 16 blue, and is presumably starting with 6. The rest he can get with one cast of Mag's purple unless the board setup as awful (again, starting with 6 most likely). So, one purple match = game over.

    You're forgetting the black needed. And boosts, making him not gain any iso. Whereas I can just retaliate brainlessly using no boosts.

    Anyways, this guy sure is persistent. We've attacked each other 10 times in the last 20 minutes. There should be a system in place to prevent this many attacks by the same person lol.

    I agree there should be a cutoff. But not if there are retaliations involved..just for when someone attacks you 4-5 times in a row.
  • True, but the bigger problem is the matchmaking rut one can get into. If it took 5 minutes to find a particular person, becaus there were so many options, you wouldn't get hit multiple times.
  • Misguided wrote:
    True, but the bigger problem is the matchmaking rut one can get into. If it took 5 minutes to find a particular person, becaus there were so many options, you wouldn't get hit multiple times.

    Speaking of which -- DefectiveChicken -- I'm sorry for beating you up 3 times in a row. You're one of the only matches showing >20 points for me.
  • why be offended tho lol
  • forgrim wrote:
    why be offended tho lol

    Because i didnt spend all those lightning rounds and isos just to get beat by somebody with a dead end gimmick team (seriously, good luck holding tourney position in the last hour with venom/spidey/** mags, you will get attacked a million times).
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    forgrim wrote:
    why be offended tho lol

    Because i didnt spend all those lightning rounds and isos just to get beat by somebody with a dead end gimmick team (seriously, good luck holding tourney position in the last hour with venom/spidey/** mags, you will get attacked a million times).

    If it makes you feel better, he's probably getting way more points from you than you are from him.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    forgrim wrote:
    why be offended tho lol

    Because i didnt spend all those lightning rounds and isos just to get beat by somebody with a dead end gimmick team (seriously, good luck holding tourney position in the last hour with venom/spidey/** mags, you will get attacked a million times).

    If it makes you feel better, he's probably getting way more points from you than you are from him.

    I think we broke even at the end =/
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