Stop messing with other characters and nerf CMags already

Unknown

Pylgrim wrote:

locked wrote:

And yes, I'm sorry, but if you constantly lose to Magneto teams (discounting truly OP characters like Sentry/Thor), you're bad. Really, really bad.

Yeah I admit it, I'm really bad. I don't have my own Patchneto or any other highly regarded combo of full leveled 3*s. How do I (and most other players) dare not spend literal thousands of dollars at the moment of installing the game to have a fully levelled roster. What a bad player, indeed! Everyone knows that money = skill, right?

Sarcasm aside, you need to get off your high horse pal. It is really sweet that you are in a spot where magneto is not problematic to you. But not everyone is in the same boat.

Um... If you have maxed out Ares and OBW, then assuming that you both are running loaner thirds, you should be able to win that fight at least 8/10 times. Occasionally with a dead character, and he's got it almost infinitely easier on retaliation, but it's by no means impossible. Hell, I'd sooner fight that than PunPun, BP, Hood, Daken, Sentry, Thor... You get my point. Yeah, magneto purple can get nasty. You have OBW, right? Use Ares or Thor for burst damage, play heavy AP denial, and if they do get a Berserker Rage, make sure that you aren't tanking it with OBW, then hit 'em for 2k damage per round. Yes, unlike most 2* teams, a bad cascade can end a character. Unlike top tier 3* teams, a bad cascade isn't murdering your entire team. If that team hits 14 red or 10 purple off a bad string... well, you lose a character. Black Panther hits 12 black? Your entire team dies. See my point?

@MikeHock: I'd face Patchneto over DoomPanther any day.

Pylgrim

Deimos12 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

locked wrote:

And yes, I'm sorry, but if you constantly lose to Magneto teams (discounting truly OP characters like Sentry/Thor), you're bad. Really, really bad.

Yeah I admit it, I'm really bad. I don't have my own Patchneto or any other highly regarded combo of full leveled 3*s. How do I (and most other players) dare not spend literal thousands of dollars at the moment of installing the game to have a fully levelled roster. What a bad player, indeed! Everyone knows that money = skill, right?

Sarcasm aside, you need to get off your high horse pal. It is really sweet that you are in a spot where magneto is not problematic to you. But not everyone is in the same boat.

Why should you expect to beat a team of maxed 3 *'s in patch and magneto without a fully levelled team of 3*'s yourself? It's like complaining you can't beat the final boss of an RPG when you're still at level 1.

True enough. Except that you don't find the boss the moment you step out of the first village. I, on the other hand, see more 166 Magnetos than any other character. And yes, with my humble team I still manage to win most of the times. It is still very infuriating and unfair, when, as I mentioned, the AI gets one of its classical **** cascades and Mags down's my strongest character in one hit and I lose the game right there. I have lost to it more times that I've lost to Call the Storm or Rage of the Panther, both of which cost more than measly 10 AP. True healing means that if this happens in the first match I play at any time, I'm down 3 health packs and down on points and likely not going to be able to play much longer.

Please disregard anything else, place your hand over your heart and answer: should any ability costing 10 AP deal more than 5k damage? 6k? 7k? 8k? I hear that most players disregard his purple in attack (since his red and blue are even more broken and need less set-up) but the fact is that since he's so good in offence, everyone plays him and in defence, the AI goes straight for MT.

Raekwen

If WR + Sacrifice can do 7-10k per character at 7 and 8 ap (one match each with boosts) isnt broken (hint: it's not), then the 3-5k cMag's purple at 10 ap sure as hell isn't.

Assuming you're paying attention and don't let it go off on your utility chars, once you have a decent 3* roster, it's nothing more than an annoyance. Most of the time though, the fight doesnt last long enough for it to go off. If you really think facing cMag is tough, you've got a long road ahead of you.

over_clocked

I tried beating various cMagneto teams with my 2*s. Yeah I wiped once but it happens with 2*s (no board control), so no biggie; but I won most of those. No fighting Sentry/LT/LD though; these guys are too powerful for 2*s fair and square.
I had trouble finding maxed Patchneto matchups, though. For the record, they are perfectly beatable with oBW/Ares (no surprise here) and I assume with cStorm/MMN too because I beat a Hulk/Magneto combo with cStorm/MMN. No boosts, of course. I will probably continue the experiment since the current PvP fittingly has no covers of interest for me.

No, I didn't even mean that you need a Patchneto of your own to beat Patchneto.

2*s can do it. I am pretty sure that even A.Wolvie + oBW can do it.
Patchneto isn't the endgame combo, and as soon as Magneto nerf hits (don't worry, you probably don't have to wait long now) it will drift away and be replaced by something like Black Panther/Hood, BP/Sentry, BP/Thor, yadda yadda, not counting the existing Thor/Daken, Sentry/Daken and Sentry/Hood.
I don't get the complaints about MT. Just imagine that Magneto is an unsexy oBW*, sheesh, and deny purple/blue to him as you would to a real oBW. He doesn't even have match damage on purple and doesn't Espionage his colours, often making him a more desirable opponent to fight than oBW. MT does highly conditional damage, I had it do some 700 damage to me because I removed most blue from the board, etc. It's a funny thing to call broken in a world where Sentry's WR + Sacrifice combo exists and is openly admitted to be balanced by devs. Heck, lazy Thor himself will look bad when BP is buffed. All these guys can leave you crawling for 3 healthpacks, while Magneto can only hurt one single character, and rarely oneshot them.

* Magneto is quite sexy to me, but I'm a fangirl (yes, I have been a fan long before MPQ).

mouser

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Patchneto in the pvp's very often any more. Popularity has definitely been waning.

Unknown

I see tons of Patchneto still, but that's neither here nor there. Sentry is already a bigger imbalance in the game than Patchneto ever was, and even performs well on defense.

My main concern with the attempts to push other character balance changes to the front of the line (LDaken) and the huge delay from the announcement of the nerfs/buffs list to now is this:

ISO is hard-won, and choosing how to invest it is one of the most important decisions you can make as you develop your roster. When the delay between announcement and execution runs so long, people are lured into making decisions with their ISO that can negatively impact their success in the game.

I know tons of players who delayed levelling CMags with the reasonable assumption that he would be changed within a month or two; these players could have been reaping the benefits of a current-state Mags on their team for months.

What about players who fed XForce hoping to be in position to have a workable 4* only to see over 470K ISO sitting on the bench for half a year?

I'm all for measured balancing of the game, and I recognize that no timeframes were explicity promised by the devs. That being said, some of the initial items on the list were executed in rapid succession right after the announcement, leading players to believe that the remainder would come on a similar timetable (given no further estimates came from the devs). So, when the wait for these other changes has lasted more than half the life of the entire game, it's troublesome.

Katai

How patchneto performs on defense doesn't really mean much when shielded.

The idea behind patchneto is to get as many points as possible, taking the least damage as possible, then shielding up. When you're sheild expires, grab another 150-200, then shield up again.

Sure, Daken/Sentry teams are pretty scary, but patchneto runs little risk of taking damage from that team, or any other team.

Spoit

Katai wrote:

How patchneto performs on defense doesn't really mean much when shielded.

The idea behind patchneto is to get as many points as possible, taking the least damage as possible, then shielding up. When you're sheild expires, grab another 150-200, then shield up again.

Sure, Daken/Sentry teams are pretty scary, but patchneto runs little risk of taking damage from that team, or any other team.

That's more because defense doesn't matter. Properly boosted, sentry needs to only make 2 matches before wining (3-4 turns)

HailMary

Pylgrim wrote:

All that people acting all smugly "pfft patchneto is an auto win in defence, if you lose is your fault" think that we cannot read between lines "please, please do not pay attention to this people, please don't nerf my precious magneto, I dunno if I could keep playing without my 30 seconds wins".

It's nice that you're trying out "armchair psychic" as a potential career path, but I was targeting Patchneto teams before I even got a usable Patch, so no, they're relatively weak on defense simply because they're relatively weak on defense. Nowadays, I try not to use Patchneto at all above 600 points if I can help it, precisely because of their relative defensive weakness. I'd honestly rather fight Patchneto than Ares + OBW.

MikeHock wrote:

[CMags] Easier to beat than Loki, Ragnarock, Daredevil, Dr Doom, GWBS, Spidey ?

How can anyone have trouble? Could it be that MMRs regularly pit you against teams that are 50+ levels higher?

Your suggested solution: "Get your own" of any cover isn't that easy.

No, CMags is not easier than the S---heel Triumvirate or Spidernerf, but that's neither here nor there. GSBW has long been known to be absolutely worthless on defense, so your argument amounts to "CMags is defensively great because he's not the s---tiest." Not the best argument, though I'll say that CMags is alright on defense, and people view Patchneto as defensively trivial because they're comparing it to Patchneto's offensive capability, which is, IMHO, second only to Sentry + Hood.

I might choose CMags over Doom, depending on their teammates. I'd definitely choose Patchneto over Doom + BP/Patch/Hulk (and LT/BP + Hulk). As noted above, I'd also choose Patchneto over Ares + OBW as well, because AgRecon is simply that risky in combination with Ares' cheap green & yellow and the AI's penchant for fortuitous cascades.

How to fight Patchneto + trivial third: focus on CMags and get AP you want while denying green & purple (a perfect AP fit for Ares/Thor green & OBW purple), kill CMags, then try to burst down Patch. For Patchneto + non-trivial third, also try to deny the third's non-trivial powers.

Edit: typos.

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

I see tons of Patchneto still, but that's neither here nor there. Sentry is already a bigger imbalance in the game than Patchneto ever was, and even performs well on defense.

My main concern with the attempts to push other character balance changes to the front of the line (LDaken) and the huge delay from the announcement of the nerfs/buffs list to now is this:

ISO is hard-won, and choosing how to invest it is one of the most important decisions you can make as you develop your roster. When the delay between announcement and execution runs so long, people are lured into making decisions with their ISO that can negatively impact their success in the game.

I know tons of players who delayed levelling CMags with the reasonable assumption that he would be changed within a month or two; these players could have been reaping the benefits of a current-state Mags on their team for months.

What about players who fed XForce hoping to be in position to have a workable 4* only to see over 470K ISO sitting on the bench for half a year?

I'm all for measured balancing of the game, and I recognize that no timeframes were explicity promised by the devs. That being said, some of the initial items on the list were executed in rapid succession right after the announcement, leading players to believe that the remainder would come on a similar timetable (given no further estimates came from the devs). So, when the wait for these other changes has lasted more than half the life of the entire game, it's troublesome.

This is exactly what I meant by this post. The Devs thought CMags was unbalanced 7 months ago. It doesn't take 7 months to balance a character. Either balance him already or say he's working as intended and take him off the list so the entire playerbase can take advantage of the exploit. (and it is an exploit since using shields offensively in no way was the intended purpose.

Unknown

Katai wrote:

How patchneto performs on defense doesn't really mean much when shielded.

The idea behind patchneto is to get as many points as possible, taking the least damage as possible, then shielding up. When you're sheild expires, grab another 150-200, then shield up again.

Sure, Daken/Sentry teams are pretty scary, but patchneto runs little risk of taking damage from that team, or any other team.

I'd like to know what strategy you employ that lets you grab 150-200 points per shield hop. Please share.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

I'd honestly rather fight Patchneto than Ares+ OBW.

This about a million times over. Add to that there's no reason why any 2* player with Thor/Ares and OBW can't take a run at Patchneto and come out in decent shape, depending on the level and quality of the featured third. OBW easily shuts down two of Mag's powers with Espionage, and between denying green and an occasional Recon you shouldn't have too much trouble with Patch. Sure you could catch a bad cascade from Mag's red, which is near impossible to deny, but you could catch a bad cascade from the AI making an enviro match too. Tinykitty happens.

To those complaining that we with established 3* rosters don't understand your plight, you can dismiss our recommendations if you like but we were all there at one point, some of us fairly recently. The answers are in front of you, refusing to acknowledge them doesn't make them less true. This game will keep smacking you around if you don't learn to adapt to what it throws at you.

Unknown

I don't like (insert character) and/or too many teams use (insert character) nerf them. How many times do we have to hear this? Why? So people can move on to the next most broken character that you're going to complain about in 6 months. It's been said over and over again, make other characters less useless not nerf good characters. People like the OP bellyached that Spidey was too good, so they double nerfed him into uselessness. When you do silly things like tell them to nerf characters, you do D3's work for them. It's akin to saying "yes please, I'd like some more lazy characters." Heck, how long was the anti-no healing nerf thread and yet that was because of people like the OP.

I also happen to agree with the sentiment that Sentry and Lazy Daken are way worse to deal with the Magneto.

Kelbris

saints2death wrote:

Spidey didn't have an insta kill skill like CMags for defense. You focus on CMags and let Sentery or LThor get green and your team wipes. You focus on LT or Sentry and let CMags get just 10 purple and it's an insta kill. That's all on a defensive team that used the blue exploit to get points.

What? That's two colors.

Control the board. Make the AI match black. It's reeeeally easy to force this AI to do things.

Mags purple does about as much as Steve/HT red under perfect conditions. Hell, you can just match the **** out of red (which I guarantee you can use) and bring MT down under 2k damage, and the dumb AI will still use MT if it's the highest costing purple (I.e.; no falcon on team)

His purple is fine. His blue and his red are the issues.

Kelbris

thatguy13 wrote:

I don't like (insert character) and/or too many teams use (insert character) nerf them. How many times do we have to hear this? Why? So people can move on to the next most broken character that you're going to complain about in 6 months. It's been said over and over again, make other characters less useless not nerf good characters. People like the OP bellyached that Spidey was too good, so they double nerfed him into uselessness. When you do silly things like tell them to nerf characters, you do D3's work for them. It's akin to saying "yes please, I'd like some more lazy characters." Heck, how long was the anti-no healing nerf thread and yet that was because of people like the OP.

I also happen to agree with the sentiment that Sentry and Lazy Daken are way worse to deal with the Magneto.

Stop question talking pls

Knyghtmare

Pylgrim wrote:

Deimos12 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

locked wrote:

And yes, I'm sorry, but if you constantly lose to Magneto teams (discounting truly OP characters like Sentry/Thor), you're bad. Really, really bad.

Yeah I admit it, I'm really bad. I don't have my own Patchneto or any other highly regarded combo of full leveled 3*s. How do I (and most other players) dare not spend literal thousands of dollars at the moment of installing the game to have a fully levelled roster. What a bad player, indeed! Everyone knows that money = skill, right?

Sarcasm aside, you need to get off your high horse pal. It is really sweet that you are in a spot where magneto is not problematic to you. But not everyone is in the same boat.

Why should you expect to beat a team of maxed 3 *'s in patch and magneto without a fully levelled team of 3*'s yourself? It's like complaining you can't beat the final boss of an RPG when you're still at level 1.

True enough. Except that you don't find the boss the moment you step out of the first village. I, on the other hand, see more 166 Magnetos than any other character. And yes, with my humble team I still manage to win most of the times. It is still very infuriating and unfair, when, as I mentioned, the AI gets one of its classical **** cascades and Mags down's my strongest character in one hit and I lose the game right there. I have lost to it more times that I've lost to Call the Storm or Rage of the Panther, both of which cost more than measly 10 AP. True healing means that if this happens in the first match I play at any time, I'm down 3 health packs and down on points and likely not going to be able to play much longer.

Please disregard anything else, place your hand over your heart and answer: should any ability costing 10 AP deal more than 5k damage? 6k? 7k? 8k? I hear that most players disregard his purple in attack (since his red and blue are even more broken and need less set-up) but the fact is that since he's so good in offence, everyone plays him and in defence, the AI goes straight for MT.

Let me answer some of the things you mention.
1. Not everybody who has high level characters have put money into it. I have not given a penny to this game, and I refuse to give money to pay to play games out of principle (they are often more interested in creating addiction than on creating fun). I have 7 161s and 8 more over 100. I have been playing for a while, but the truth is, you only need two good 3s to win, since that is what you will likely be using in most PvPs.
2. I have never chosen to avoid a magneto in any circumstance. I have, however, avoided a full Hood with any good low cost power or high hp character (think Daken, Sentry, Hood, or Hood, Thor, Sentry, or some combo like that). I have avoided teams with 3 tanks unless they are worth a lot (takes too long, too annoying).
3. The bigger issue with 1 and 2 star teams is that they face far too many tough teams in PvP. I thought they were doing more to insure that 2* players aren't playing the hardest teams, but that may have changed. Having said that, PvEs are easier for those teams (check the leaderboard in a PvE and you'll find a lot of 2 and weak 3 star teams). Any way, this is not an issue with Magneto, it's an issue with players not having separate leaderboards and matchups based on how strong their characters are.
4. The whole point of this thread was not about whether Mags should be or shouldn't be nerfed. It was about how long the devs threaten to nerf a character compared to when they do it. The correct way to handle this would be to show potential nerf and then give time for people to comment, allowing the team to then decide whether to do the nerf, change the nerf, or drop the nerf. That was what they did with the recent 3* Daken nerf, which didn't take place, but which was the right way to handle it. The time from announcing potential nerf to actual nerf should be a couple of weeks, not seven months.
5. People got upset at you, not for your opinion of whether the nerf should take place, but because of your unnecessary snark and sarcasm when you said it.

Kelbris

Quick fix for Mags:

Blue: one blue tile, increase protect by ~+125% (50 base -> 112 base); one tile is easier to remove with matching/overwrite so the net should be higher than what it was with two tiles out

Red: 5 AP cost (Dev desired min cost), destroys 5 tiles + 1 for every (maybe only blue) protect tile, ~350-400 damage, max of ~10 tiles destroyed; possibly could be abusable with falcon, hence the "maybe only blue;" without blue only stipulation, could make Cap Marvel more useful (and she's already pretty fun "

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

Easier to beat than Loki, Ragnarock, Daredevil, Dr Doom, GWBS, Spidey ?

That comparison is kind of ridiculous. The only characters you listed that you might occasionally see in PVP are Widow and Spidey, and only fielded by players that invested iso back when they were worth using. If you need to compare Patchneto to characters no one actually uses to make them seem formidable, they might not be very tough.

The characters people actually field in 3* PVP are : Daken, Sentry, Thor, Panther, Punisher, Hulk, Hood, Patch, Magneto. You will occasionally see Spider-Man, Widow, Falcon (with Daken, which means someone was playing while watching TV), Cap, and Torch.

The vast majority of matches you'll actually see are Daken, Sentry, Thor, Punisher, Patch, Magneto. Now, I wouldn't say it's impossible to lose to Patch and Magneto. But the AI plays every other character better, aside from Widow and Spider-Man, who are holdovers from an earlier era. I certainly find Daken to be more annoying to deal with than Patch, though not significantly so. Punisher is more likely to chip away your team health than actually cause an upset, but his low cost skills are hard to all deny. Sentry, Thor, and Panther are all high health tanks with AOEs that will probably wipe you out if they go off.

If you're having trouble with Patchneto because you're transitioning from 2s, that's understandable. You're punching above your weight class. The matchups aren't going to get any easier when Magneto is nerfed though. Transitioning players complain about Patchneto because they see a lot of them, but the reason they see a lot of them is because that combo is at the bottom of the three star tier.

Unknown

Kelbris wrote:

saints2death wrote:

Spidey didn't have an insta kill skill like CMags for defense. You focus on CMags and let Sentery or LThor get green and your team wipes. You focus on LT or Sentry and let CMags get just 10 purple and it's an insta kill. That's all on a defensive team that used the blue exploit to get points.

What? That's two colors.

Control the board. Make the AI match black. It's reeeeally easy to force this AI to do things.

Mags purple does about as much as Steve/HT red under perfect conditions. Hell, you can just match the **** out of red (which I guarantee you can use) and bring MT down under 2k damage, and the dumb AI will still use MT if it's the highest costing purple (I.e.; no falcon on team)

His purple is fine. His blue and his red are the issues.

Not saying his purple is an issue. I'm saying his purple keeps him from being a complete liability on defense that people here are making him out to be.

Unknown

Kelbris wrote:

Quick fix for Mags:

Blue: one blue tile, increase protect by ~+125% (50 base -> 112 base); one tile is easier to remove with matching/overwrite so the net should be higher than what it was with two tiles out

Red: 5 AP cost (Dev desired min cost), destroys 5 tiles + 1 for every (maybe only blue) protect tile, ~350-400 damage, max of ~10 tiles destroyed; possibly could be abusable with falcon, hence the "maybe only blue;" without blue only stipulation, could make Cap Marvel more useful (and she's already pretty fun "

Quick fix. Don't change the color of the shield tile and raid Red to 5 AP and increase damage to compensate. Problem solved. Didn't take 7 months.