*** Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool!) ***

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  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lyrian wrote:
    And for the record, the damage cap for ALotP, is a combination of level-based and cover-based. Going from 1 Red to 3 Red raised the damage cap by about 15% for each cover added.

    All the more reason to go 5 Red, as it will not be possible to achieve 45%/3299 damage.
    So the hard number displayed is based on level but the covers limit amount of damage? So basically, without 5 Red, you will never see 3299 damage in a normal setting? Though if that is correct, I can see how that would be less of a problem in PvE. Would anyone even run a PvE-centric Deadpool?
  • You only need 7331 HP to get 3299 damage at 45%, which is still less HP than the total HP of characters like Captain America or anyone higher. Of course they won't always have full HP when you use it so there's still value in upgrading, but 45% is not as small as it looks given all the powerful characters in the current game have a ton of HP.
  • Phantron wrote:
    You only need 7331 HP to get 3299 damage at 45%, which is still less HP than the total HP of characters like Captain America or anyone higher. Of course they won't always have full HP when you use it so there's still value in upgrading, but 45% is not as small as it looks given all the powerful characters in the current game have a ton of HP.
    See I was thinking about a Deadpool, Sentry, 3* Daken team. Daken would create the strike tiles and collect green for Sentry to use. Deadpool can grab red to knock down all three of the next team before World Rupture goes off. Game over man! Game over!
  • Has anybody figured out how to use Deadpool points yet?

    I've triggered WWW while having points and at no point did I see an option to use any of them to increase damage. Do you have to max them out before you can spend them? Or did I miss something?
  • Phantron wrote:
    You only need 7331 HP to get 3299 damage at 45%, which is still less HP than the total HP of characters like Captain America or anyone higher. Of course they won't always have full HP when you use it so there's still value in upgrading, but 45% is not as small as it looks given all the powerful characters in the current game have a ton of HP.

    You're missing the point I am trying to make, Phantron.

    The damage maximum on red is arbitrarily capped based upon the number of red covers possessed. In that sense, Deadpool's Red damage works very much like Torch's Red.

    This is easily observable by through viewing his major-buffed self in Weapon Tex-Mex. His 166 damage cap for 3 Red appears to be in the 1700-1800 range (its 1634 @150; ran out of iso). I really wouldn't be surprised if the 4 Red damage cap is below 2500. I'll get the 4th Red from TaT today, and will post my findings later.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    So playing with all of DP's numbers, Wade does have a couple of different build models. While Covers are Red/Purple/Black. Deadpool is actually Purple/Black/Red in order of tile strength. This comes into play when attempting to utilize Mutant Pin Cushion (black) In order for Deadpool to successfully block and heal, he A. Has to be at more health, and B. A team member has to be having an income 869 attack. The only way to realiably ensure that Deadpool is at higher health is to have him have as little tile match dmg as possible. This is not gonna happen with Purple as the only two characters capable of tanking Purple for Deadpool are BWGS and Daredevil, however we do have a large amount of characters that can tank black and red for Deadpool.

    The only true option for Deadpool builds come with a max red

    5/5/3
    5/4/4
    5/3/5

    Red is just too good to pass up, the only guys that have a better Red with Dmg:AP are Daredevil and Human Torch

    A Little of the Top maxed will do 650 Dmg per 1000 at a cost of 6AP. Basically unless a guy is under 3000 Deadpool is going to give you the best rate of return

    So with Red decided, a player needs to decide what version of Deadpool fits their team and their style.

    Obviously the majority of players believe that 5/5/3 is the best build and they could be right, but, as we know people like to experiment.

    WWW offers a lot of damage and AoE damage at that, but at a hefty cost of 14AP. When you compare that to Rage of the Panther, Call of the Storm, Supernova, World Rupture, Ballastic Salvo, Sniper Rifle, Avengers' Assemble, Power of Attorney which are all the 4* and 3* team damaging skills, Whales falls towards the end. World Rup, Supernova, Rage are probably 1-3 with Call of the Storm coming in 4th and possibly Avenger's Assemble at 5th. Salvo and Rifle are so expensive they are at the bottom Power of Attorney is decent, not lots of dmg but cheap and cascadable. I would put Whales after Call of the Storm and assuming Avenger's Assemble has red and green when cast, I would put it after that. The reason is the cost. While Call of the Storm costs the same and Whales doing more dmg, Thor at least has the Benefit of Thunder Strike which can ramp him up into Call of the Storm, so while Call of the Storm says 14 the time and effort to get the 14AP is much easier than Whales.

    Mutant Pin Cushion. Pretty easy here. DP will block if a teammate has less health and an incoming 869. Obviously the higher you max this skill the more health that will be returned with lvl 4 breaking almost even, and level 5 gaining health. The issue with Pin Cushion is that it is unrealiable sometimes and on defense all someone has to do is match dmg to a lesser foe and Deadpool won't block. The upside of Pin Cushion is that it does help against lots of strike tiles or big ones like Sentry and Fury. As that will usually cause enough dmg to trigger Deadpool blocking.

    In short you will probably get more use out of a 5/4/4 or a 5/3/5 Deadpool as he will be able to block and heal much more, but you will seriously hinder the damage of Whales, but...at a cost of 14 how often will you really be using it?

    It comes down to this. If you max Whales you are saying, Pin Cushion is just a bonus/annoyance and I only consider Deadpool to have 2 skills. Because you will be actively matching Purple, Deadpool will be taking more damage and thus the ability to trigger Pin Cushion is lowered. If you choose to max Pin Cushion, you are saying, I don't think I will cast Whales all that much and if it does 3K AoE dmg instead of 4K Aoe dmg I'm okay with that. I would rather have Deadpool be able to block for squishy characters and be annoying than have him sit back and wait for Whales.

    In all honesty, much like Human Torch. As long as you have Red maxed you'll be okay, Offensively you would probably want Deadpool as a 5/3/5 since in PvP if you are pushing hard and quick, Deadpool will help keep guys around. Defenseively you would probably want Deadpool 5/5/3 for the fact a player will be smart enough to play around Mutant Pin Cushion but they will be leary to Whales and thus want to get Deadpool out of the picture quickly.

    Playing with Deadpool a little bit in the Storm tourney, I actually found Pin Cushion to be very useful. Because Storm was a low heath any way, and that she took a lot of tile match dmg, having Deadpool dive in to block and than heal was super awesome, and I found myself wishing he would've healed for more, but in the end, any build would be okay. Regardless of level Pin Cushion works the same, having a Deadpool 5/3/5 would probably save you a couple health packs here and there but you lose the massive AoE dmg, I wish we had more numbers on Whales numbers.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lyrian wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    You only need 7331 HP to get 3299 damage at 45%, which is still less HP than the total HP of characters like Captain America or anyone higher. Of course they won't always have full HP when you use it so there's still value in upgrading, but 45% is not as small as it looks given all the powerful characters in the current game have a ton of HP.

    You're missing the point I am trying to make, Phantron.

    The damage maximum on red is arbitrarily capped based upon the number of red covers possessed. In that sense, Deadpool's Red damage works very much like Torch's Red.

    This is easily observable by through viewing his major-buffed self in Weapon Tex-Mex. His 166 damage cap for 3 Red appears to be in the 1700-1800 range (its 1634 @150; ran out of iso). I really wouldn't be surprised if the 4 Red damage cap is below 2500. I'll get the 4th Red from TaT today, and will post my findings later.

    It's not, his dmg cap doesn't change regardless of covers, it's only the %.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I found numbers for WHALES, WHALES, WHALES

    These are maxed 166 numbers

    Lvl 3 Whales -- 2191 team dmg
    Lvl 4 Whales -- 2817 team dmg

    So
    5/5/3 is
    Red--65% cap 3299
    Purp--4069
    Black--Heal 657

    5/4/4
    Red--65% cap 3299
    Purp--2817
    Black--Heal 844

    5/3/5
    Red--65% cap 3299
    Purp--2191
    Black--Heal 1219

    So those are the numbers for the optimal 3 builds, because you have to have red maxed, PERIOD!!
    Gives me something to think about
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Lyrian wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    You only need 7331 HP to get 3299 damage at 45%, which is still less HP than the total HP of characters like Captain America or anyone higher. Of course they won't always have full HP when you use it so there's still value in upgrading, but 45% is not as small as it looks given all the powerful characters in the current game have a ton of HP.

    You're missing the point I am trying to make, Phantron.

    The damage maximum on red is arbitrarily capped based upon the number of red covers possessed. In that sense, Deadpool's Red damage works very much like Torch's Red.

    This is easily observable by through viewing his major-buffed self in Weapon Tex-Mex. His 166 damage cap for 3 Red appears to be in the 1700-1800 range (its 1634 @150; ran out of iso). I really wouldn't be surprised if the 4 Red damage cap is below 2500. I'll get the 4th Red from TaT today, and will post my findings later.

    It's not, his dmg cap doesn't change regardless of covers, it's only the %.

    Yes, it does. I'll post compare/contrast notes on the numbers I posted above when I get his 4th Red tonight. But moving from 1 Red to 3 Red, there was a considerable damage cap increase from adding covers to DP alone.
  • Would it have killed him?
    I've thought I've seen this happen a few times but I think it happened because the hit would have downed him instead of the character he was shielding.

    Just an idea, have no idea if this is a bug or not.
  • Has anybody figured out how to use Deadpool points yet?

    I've triggered WWW while having points and at no point did I see an option to use any of them to increase damage. Do you have to max them out before you can spend them? Or did I miss something?

    You mean you have 28K Deadpool points already? I think he throws all whales at 28K, but since I'm at 21K currently I don't know yet.
  • Rico Dredd wrote:
    You mean you have 28K Deadpool points already? I think he throws all whales at 28K, but since I'm at 21K currently I don't know yet.

    No, I don't have 28K yet. But the wording gave me the impression that the more points you spent, the higher damage scaled. Thus I didn't think you needed to max out the points necessarily. Guess you do though.
  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Okay, so right now I'm leaning towards 4 Red being enough for my own use. 45% does max damage on characters with Ironman's health or higher at the start, that's enough to actually cover my needs for damage that could be made up in strike tiles. However, I do realize that 5 Red will happening depending on where I go with Purple.

    I am currently undecided if I want 3 or 4 Purple because of that cost. He's going to be the only purple user on most teams I'll run him with. What has already been worked out is that he won't be on a team where CotS or RotP isn't available. That reduces my need for his Purple but just in case 3 Purple would be totally worthless as the only AOE skill available on the team in my opinion.

    I most certainly feel dead set on 5 Black. After some play testing, its most certain that Deadpool and Hood are BFFs. He would also protect other squishy targets such as Stom, Human Torch, Loki, etc. when I'm not running Hood. It would also cover any future similar HP class characters. It's manly for defense against skills such as Moljnir's Might, Thunderclap, Psychic Knife, and Psi-Kitana, ya know the **** that you may get hit by cause your busy denying AP for other things. He'd jump ahead and heal a good portion of that damage like it didn't happen.

    This leaves me with a 4/4/5 build. I may crack and go 5/3/5 but I I feel that for my use, 4/4/5 might actually be what I need to utilize him as. I quite like my Hood and he stays alive for a good number of matches before needing a health pack with the group I run him with.
  • Comparing 3 Red to 4 Red Deadpool....


    Starting values, as measure at different levels of buffing:

    Base: 102 (cover maxed out; 3/3/2), 1225 max damage
    PvP +50% buff: 153, 1649 max damage
    PvE + 90 level buff: 192, 2038 damage

    Adding the 4th red cover, with no other modifications or iso investment:

    Base: 102 (4/3/2), 1575 max damage
    PvP +50% buff: 153, 2120 max damage
    PvE +90 level buff: 192, 2621 damage

    Differentials:

    Base: (1575-1225)/1225 = +28.57%
    PvP: (2120-1649)/1649 = +28.56%
    {vE: (2621-2038)-2038 = +28.61%

    So, there it is. There is undoubtedly a significant linear power increase for A Little of the Top from merely adding Red covers to Deadpool. This one of multiple intentional artificial restrictions placed on Deadpool, as a "cursed" character.

    It's late, so I'll leave my thoughts on Deadpool as a longread to the morning/afternoon. The short version of these thoughts for now is this: Deadpool continues the progression of power creep in the game, pushing the bar to its highest levels yet. However, for now, and perhaps as canon to the character, extraordinary power comes at an extreme price. In exchange for the fastest/most damaging Red in the game (as a combo for 6 base [not net like Torch] AP), the most powerful AoE attack in the game on an almost completely unutilized color in the 3*** game (ignoring the handful of people with a usable Fury), and a True Healing power, all three abilities carry significant curses and/or risks that have to be clearly understood and accepted to use the character effectively.

    The TL;DR version is this: While Captain Marvel is the defensive version of Psylocke, Deadpool is best framed as the "Patch" version of Psylocke. He is very high risk/high reward, as the devs clearly constructed all of his skills with considerable downsides when balancing him. And this time, there is no CMags to mitigate the risks of Patch for Deadpool.
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,543 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks for the analysis Lyrian.

    I didn't read through the whole thread so I may have missed out the reason for you calling him "high risk, high rewards". Why would that be the case? Why would he be high risk?

    The way I see him is that he has a good red which diminish over time, a purple AoE and a inverse 'Avoid' (or more like Protect of Cecil in FF4). I don't see any risk for him
  • I thought the 45%/3299 number was from someone who has him at level 4 since I sure don't know what the numbers are. But since the actual level 4 fixed damage portion can't be higher than that this means he'll still always do full damage to someone in the Captain America HP class when they're at full HP, so you don't really have to worry about not getting the full potential out of his red. The red damage he does is somewhat deceptive because unless your goal is to make people lose health packs instead of winning, his hard hitting red doesn't hit anybody at a point where it matters in the absence of strike tiles, and Deadpool + anyone who can make strike tiles will likely have color coverage issues (Daken + Deadpool likely won't have a green power while Daken + Punisher likely won't have a yellow power). It's only effective if the first person you're attacking is a tank, but attacking Thor or Sentry first usually doesn't make much sense unless the other guy is Daken.
  • edited August 2014
    1100 in the bag, so comparing 4 Red --> 5 Red (because I had to get this out of my mind first)


    Starting values, as measure at different levels of buffing:

    Base: 102 (4/3/2), 1575 max damage
    PvP +50% buff: 153, 2120 max damage
    PvE +90 level buff: 192, 2621 damage

    Adding the 5th red cover, with no other modifications or iso investment:

    Base: 102 (5/3/2), 2275 max damage
    PvP +50% buff: 153, 3063 max damage
    PvE +90 level buff: 192, 3786 damage

    Differentials:

    Base: (2275-1575)/1575 = +44.44%
    PvP: (3063-2120)/2120 = +44.48%
    PvE: (3786-2621)-2621 = +44.45%

    That's a rather huge power spike for a single Red cover and no other investment in Deadpool.

    For comparison's sake, looking at the power differential between the 3 Red minimum and the 5 Red maximum,

    3 Red = 1225 damage cap
    5 Red = 2275 damage cap

    (2275-1225)/1225 = 85.17%

    Not that anyone was seriously arguing against a 5 Red build. but the data shows a ~45% lower damage cap for a 4 Red build and ~85% power loss for a 3 Red build for A Little Off the Top.

    Knowing that 5 Red @166 yields 3299 damage, lesser Red builds can be interpolated as follows:

    3 Red @ 166 = 3299 * (1225/2275) = 1776 damage
    4 Red @ 166 = 3299 * (1575/2275) = 2284 damage (+508 over 3 Red)
    5 Red @ 166 =
    = 3299 damage (+1015 over 4 Red, +1523 over 3 Red)

    There is a case for a 4 Red build, but a player would have to give up an awful lot of damage for a 4/4/5 or a 4/5/4 build.
  • MarvelousMarvelous Age Unconfirmed Posts: 52 Match Maker
    Ok so I have a few questions regarding the Deadpool points used in his Whales, Whales, Whales power.

    1.) Can you choose how many points to use or spend or do you just blow all of them the instant you use your power?
    2.) If they are all used up instantly, is it better to not use his WWW power until you've maxed out his points (for full damage potential)?
    3.) Can you only collect DP points once per day or do you acquire them every time you fight with him and your DP points are at zero?
  • You get 3000 (and some change) once a day the first time you win with him in your party.

    They aren't used until you have a maxed amount.

    I assume (but its not yet possible to know) that you spend all of them when you have the maxed amount, do a billion damage, then start over.

    Its not really relevant, but it is random and funny, which is the point.
  • Marvelous wrote:
    Ok so I have a few questions regarding the Deadpool points used in his Whales, Whales, Whales power.

    1.) Can you choose how many points to use or spend or do you just blow all of them the instant you use your power?
    2.) If they are all used up instantly, is it better to not use his WWW power until you've maxed out his points (for full damage potential)?
    3.) Can you only collect DP points once per day or do you acquire them every time you fight with him and your DP points are at zero?

    1) No one knows yet. The current running theory appears to be that 28k points are needed to activate once WWW at ultra power.
    2) See #1, no one knows yet. Most players are still 2 days away from maxing out DP points for the first time.
    3) First winning fight with DP each day, recycles with your daily login reward. Each win that awards DP points yields 300 +/- 200 (2800 - 3200). Unless very lucky, collecting 28k DP points requires 10 days of playing with Deadpool at least once a day. (9 if very lucky). Can DP points be stocked past 28k? No one knows yet.
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