Captain Marvel + Daken Rebalance Discussion

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  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
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    Magneto is totally holding them hostage.
  • Unknown
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    What is the deal with that original post?

    Everyone with red thumb power should(can?) be pushing LakeStone below the Earth's crust right NOW icon_evil.gificon_mad.gif

    Also, feeling totally justified in intentionally denying 3* SexyDak any black covers after this announcement...maybe?

    Lastly, feeling sad that it's now time to take 2* Darken out behind the wood shed with the ol' .22. His whole purposeful existance of '2 strike tiles at Pheromone Rage level 5' is about to be blasted out of MPQ's park by the Spider-Man-bloodied NERF bat.
    I'll see if I can have some 'last great hurrah' fun with him in Balance of Power before I chamber the round, though. icon_neutral.gif
  • Unknown
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    I can't speak for the 3* Daken but if they allowed 2* Daken to still create 2 strike tiles with his level 5 purple, he would have immediately become OP in the 2* brackets. Already at level 78 he can stick with the level 94 2*'s so allowing him to come up to 94, with the added health/damage, I think he would have dominated as the 2* meta doesn't exactly have a ton to counter him with Bullseye as the only one reliable way to create the defense tiles and he's pretty much completely irrelevant right now. MMN and Cap are okay at dealing with him but they have their drawbacks too (MMN's tile can be destroyed, Cap is sloooooow). Although Torch's red proved to be a decent way to deal with the tiles in The Hunt event.
  • Unknown
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    What is the deal with that original post?

    Everyone with red thumb power should(can?) be pushing LakeStone below the Earth's crust right NOW icon_evil.gificon_mad.gif

    Also, feeling totally justified in intentionally denying 3* SexyDak any black covers after this announcement...maybe?

    Lastly, feeling sad that it's now time to take 2* Darken out behind the wood shed with the ol' .22. His whole purposeful existance of '2 strike tiles at Pheromone Rage level 5' is about to be blasted out of MPQ's park by the Spider-Man-bloodied NERF bat.
    I'll see if I can have some 'last great hurrah' fun with him in Balance of Power before I chamber the round, though. icon_neutral.gif

    No rep points in the News & Announcements forums. Wouldn't want the place to devolve into an unpopularity contest.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So random (probably stupid) question:

    How will Daken's expansion to 3 colors work? Does he just become 5/5/0, with the new colors appearing in packs/rewards?
  • Nemek
    Nemek Posts: 1,511
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    So random (probably stupid) question:

    How will Daken's expansion to 3 colors work? Does he just become 5/5/0, with the new colors appearing in packs/rewards?

    Most likely, that's how it's worked with all of the characters that have had 3rd abilities added.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Maybe when his blue is added, 2* Torch will be sent to the awards pool as well. That would nice.
  • Unknown
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    Grizzlegom wrote:
    I can't speak for the 3* Daken but if they allowed 2* Daken to still create 2 strike tiles with his level 5 purple, he would have immediately become OP in the 2* brackets. Already at level 78 he can stick with the level 94 2*'s so allowing him to come up to 94, with the added health/damage, I think he would have dominated as the 2* meta doesn't exactly have a ton to counter him with Bullseye as the only one reliable way to create the defense tiles and he's pretty much completely irrelevant right now. MMN and Cap are okay at dealing with him but they have their drawbacks too (MMN's tile can be destroyed, Cap is sloooooow). Although Torch's red proved to be a decent way to deal with the tiles in The Hunt event.

    Daken 2* was always a very strong character for his tier. His problem is that he's obviously meant to tank some stuff with regen, but his inherently lower level means he almost never gets any color to tank so you're not getting half of his value.
  • Unknown
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    Grizzlegom wrote:
    I can't speak for the 3* Daken but if they allowed 2* Daken to still create 2 strike tiles with his level 5 purple, he would have immediately become OP in the 2* brackets. Already at level 78 he can stick with the level 94 2*'s so allowing him to come up to 94, with the added health/damage, I think he would have dominated as the 2* meta doesn't exactly have a ton to counter him with Bullseye as the only one reliable way to create the defense tiles and he's pretty much completely irrelevant right now. MMN and Cap are okay at dealing with him but they have their drawbacks too (MMN's tile can be destroyed, Cap is sloooooow). Although Torch's red proved to be a decent way to deal with the tiles in The Hunt event.

    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.
  • Unknown
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    Vanapak wrote:

    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.

    The number of tiles makes no difference in the long run. Let's say there's a spot that's easily cleared and another spot that's difficult to clear. If you place 2 tiles you expect the easy to clear spot to get cleared while keeping 50% of your total strength for a while. When placing only one tile it's 50% chance it'll be cleared right away and 50% it won't be cleared for a while. The overall strength of tile went down some, though with Daken it's really easy to fill the board with strike tiles so that could even itself out. Daken's regeneration is very strong and the change will now allow him to actually own tiles compared to other 2*s which is a massive boost to his relative power. Placing fewer tiles makes him weaker against characters like Captian America or Moonstone, but I doubt anyone actually uses them at the 2* tier.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vanapak wrote:
    Grizzlegom wrote:
    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.
    On the other hand, he gains an active offense skill, plus 20ish levels of health and match damage.
  • Nemek
    Nemek Posts: 1,511
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    Phantron wrote:
    Vanapak wrote:

    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.

    The number of tiles makes no difference in the long run. Let's say there's a spot that's easily cleared and another spot that's difficult to clear. If you place 2 tiles you expect the easy to clear spot to get cleared while keeping 50% of your total strength for a while. When placing only one tile it's 50% chance it'll be cleared right away and 50% it won't be cleared for a while. The overall strength of tile went down some, though with Daken it's really easy to fill the board with strike tiles so that could even itself out. Daken's regeneration is very strong and the change will now allow him to actually own tiles compared to other 2*s which is a massive boost to his relative power. Placing fewer tiles makes him weaker against characters like Captian America or Moonstone, but I doubt anyone actually uses them at the 2* tier.

    Yeah, it's tough to say whether making only one strike tile will end up being for better or worse, overall.

    While there's an obvious decrease in strike tile strength (from 2x28 to 46), the maximum strike tile strength on the entire board is close to doubled. Especially with matches taking a little bit longer these days, it's very often the case where I'd run out of red tiles to put strike tiles on and "waste" those green matches. Now, the theoretical maximum for damage output for the strike tiles is much higher, but the time it takes to get to the maximum has been elongated. For really long matches, this is likely a benefit...for short matches, not so much.
  • Unknown
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    Phantron wrote:
    Vanapak wrote:

    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.

    The number of tiles makes no difference in the long run. Let's say there's a spot that's easily cleared and another spot that's difficult to clear. If you place 2 tiles you expect the easy to clear spot to get cleared while keeping 50% of your total strength for a while. When placing only one tile it's 50% chance it'll be cleared right away and 50% it won't be cleared for a while. The overall strength of tile went down some, though with Daken it's really easy to fill the board with strike tiles so that could even itself out. Daken's regeneration is very strong and the change will now allow him to actually own tiles compared to other 2*s which is a massive boost to his relative power. Placing fewer tiles makes him weaker against characters like Captian America or Moonstone, but I doubt anyone actually uses them at the 2* tier.

    I can see what you mean. This change for 2* daken is overall a good move for the ppl in the transition phrase from 2* to 3*. I expect to see more of him around in pvp after ppl getting him full covered to lvl 94. I have read too many comments ppl saying the 2* daken is as strong as the 3* now as they make the same strength attack tiles, trying to point out they have changed it to 1 tile instead of previously 2.
  • Unknown
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    Phantron wrote:
    The number of tiles makes no difference in the long run.

    The what? There is insane difference between 1 and 2 tile creation in any run, both counting direct effect of the strike and their interaction with other abilities starting with own blue, and not limited to your falcon, psy, enemy falcon moonie.
  • Unknown
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    Phantron wrote:
    Grizzlegom wrote:
    I can't speak for the 3* Daken but if they allowed 2* Daken to still create 2 strike tiles with his level 5 purple, he would have immediately become OP in the 2* brackets. Already at level 78 he can stick with the level 94 2*'s so allowing him to come up to 94, with the added health/damage, I think he would have dominated as the 2* meta doesn't exactly have a ton to counter him with Bullseye as the only one reliable way to create the defense tiles and he's pretty much completely irrelevant right now. MMN and Cap are okay at dealing with him but they have their drawbacks too (MMN's tile can be destroyed, Cap is sloooooow). Although Torch's red proved to be a decent way to deal with the tiles in The Hunt event.

    Daken 2* was always a very strong character for his tier. His problem is that he's obviously meant to tank some stuff with regen, but his inherently lower level means he almost never gets any color to tank so you're not getting half of his value.

    Right, that's my point. If he still generated 2 strike tiles PLUS he got the increased health/damage that comes with going from 78 to 94, he would have become OP in the 2* bracket. This is why I said his "nerf" isn't a bad thing as it balances out and instead of being the clear-cut best 2*, he'll probably slot in with OBW/Ares/Thor in the top tier.
  • Unknown
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    He was already a solid B team, paired with Thor (Daken covers green tiles with Thor), but this will be huge for him. The only question now is the build. 5 purple is a given, but without the second strike tile, I am not sure if 5 black is (depends on info that this announcement does not reliably provide)
  • Unknown
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    Kuchiri wrote:
    No there's been actual crying. People don't understand that in games with dozens of characters or classes the classes or characters that are so overpowered that every single person feels obligated to shove them in their teams no matter what will get nerfed so more options open up. It's why Spider-Man and OBW got nerfed recently. It's why Thor and Wolverine got nerfed a few months back. I'm not angry at any of these nerfs. I'm happy to see changes to who I fight in PVP.

    Spare us. People have a legitimate gripe that Daken was nerfed (with no warning again; IE spidey & OBW) just after he was a reward. Once again, the timing sucks and it was done with no notice while we've been waiting 6 months for CMags to be nerfed, 4* Wolvie to be buffed, etc.....

    Two nerfs in two months for a Punk Daken. It's obvious that D3 doesn't have a clue what the F it's doing.
  • Unknown
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    eidehua wrote:
    So what the tinykitty was wrong with daken, why nerf him, i'm so tinykitty tired of this **** tinykitty the game left and right, there was nothing tinykitty wrong with daken , STOP WITH THE tinykitty NERFS, how about you spend more tinykitty time developing the characters before releasing them, so tinykitty tired of this tinykitty
    Not sure if you typed out tiny kitty all those times or actually typed tinykitty

    I typed tinykitty because I think they should all go tinykitty themselves, tinykitty is too long so I just typed tinykitty

    I support this post 1000%
  • Unknown
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    Phantron wrote:
    Vanapak wrote:

    After the update he will be creating ONE power 46 strike tile. so he is being nerfed too and will be much easier to clear his tiles.

    The number of tiles makes no difference in the long run. Let's say there's a spot that's easily cleared and another spot that's difficult to clear. If you place 2 tiles you expect the easy to clear spot to get cleared while keeping 50% of your total strength for a while. When placing only one tile it's 50% chance it'll be cleared right away and 50% it won't be cleared for a while. The overall strength of tile went down some, though with Daken it's really easy to fill the board with strike tiles so that could even itself out. Daken's regeneration is very strong and the change will now allow him to actually own tiles compared to other 2*s which is a massive boost to his relative power. Placing fewer tiles makes him weaker against characters like Captian America or Moonstone, but I doubt anyone actually uses them at the 2* tier.

    I disagree - sure, there are easy and difficult strike tiles to clear, but generating two strike tiles per match will fill all the 'difficult' tiles faster. Also, two strike tiles will generally fill every available red tile on the board pretty quickly - which means that even easily cleared tiles will last a turn or two before dying. That extra damage adds up.
  • Unknown
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    I disagree - sure, there are easy and difficult strike tiles to clear, but generating two strike tiles per match will fill all the 'difficult' tiles faster. Also, two strike tiles will generally fill every available red tile on the board pretty quickly - which means that even easily cleared tiles will last a turn or two before dying. That extra damage adds up.

    But if the release is accurate, it goes from 2 tiles at 28 (total of 56), to 1 tile of 46. That is a significant damage jump for each tile on the board, even as they take longer to place.