Captain Marvel + Daken Rebalance Discussion

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  • Unknown
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    fidsah wrote:
    i cannot believe daken is being nerfed. that's going to be a terrible day for me
    For such a minor nerf?

    You must be new to this forum. Any kind of change that happens to the game is met with thousands of people crying over it. Good or Bad.
  • Unknown
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    Kuchiri wrote:
    fidsah wrote:
    i cannot believe daken is being nerfed. that's going to be a terrible day for me
    For such a minor nerf?

    You must be new to this forum. Any kind of change that happens to the game is met with thousands of people crying over it. Good or Bad.

    crying wouldn't be a correct description my good sir. i would say more along the lines of bummed
  • Unknown
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    No there's been actual crying. People don't understand that in games with dozens of characters or classes the classes or characters that are so overpowered that every single person feels obligated to shove them in their teams no matter what will get nerfed so more options open up. It's why Spider-Man and OBW got nerfed recently. It's why Thor and Wolverine got nerfed a few months back. I'm not angry at any of these nerfs. I'm happy to see changes to who I fight in PVP.
  • Unknown
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    Kuchiri wrote:
    No there's been actual crying. People don't understand that in games with dozens of characters or classes the classes or characters that are so overpowered that every single person feels obligated to shove them in their teams no matter what will get nerfed so more options open up. It's why Spider-Man and OBW got nerfed recently. It's why Thor and Wolverine got nerfed a few months back. I'm not angry at any of these nerfs. I'm happy to see changes to who I fight in PVP.

    You're stating the obvious. It's not the changes, it's the timing. That's what this game has consistently got wrong time and time again.
  • DD-The-Mighty
    DD-The-Mighty Posts: 350 Mover and Shaker
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    The Ladder wrote:
    Kuchiri wrote:
    No there's been actual crying. People don't understand that in games with dozens of characters or classes the classes or characters that are so overpowered that every single person feels obligated to shove them in their teams no matter what will get nerfed so more options open up. It's why Spider-Man and OBW got nerfed recently. It's why Thor and Wolverine got nerfed a few months back. I'm not angry at any of these nerfs. I'm happy to see changes to who I fight in PVP.

    You're stating the obvious. It's not the changes, it's the timing. That's what this game has consistently got wrong time and time again.
    There, there, allow the poor fellow to be contrarian. A moderately civil complaint about the minor but significant nerfs of daken(s) will always attract those who want to blow the criticism way out of proportion. And i would love to see his mmr bracket that has all the interesting "Changes in PVP", because nerf or no i'm still seeing the same squads as before.
  • Unknown
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    You can balance daken theough simple bumber tweaks and still have him be at its core the same style of character. Any changes they make to cmags is not going to be anywhere near as simple as reducing damage and lowering heal. It doesnt excuse them from not changing the character for however many months its been, but you should easily see why they released these daken nerfs ao fast compared to spidey/cmags.

    absolutely not. So you are telling me taking about 1 minute 48.2 seconds (approximately) to make mag c blue protect tiles randomized is a more difficult fix than than what just happened to daken? No sir. I disagree.

    Im not talking about the difficulty of implementation, im saying that cmags is broken in a way that requires some change to the core functionality of how his character is played and requires actual design decisions as to what kind of fix they should implement to balence the character while not pissing off the entire forum that their beloved cmags cant infinitely chain turns with blue anymore. Updated daken is basically identical to prenerf daken except he heals a little less and has weaker strike tiles: updated cmags blue is going to look nothing like how it is now. Watch the forum reaction regarding these nerfs vs spidey nerfs, and its pretty obvious why they would roll out a change like this so quickly vs something like a cmags nerf.

    People are going to get pissed no matter what. Having a broken character that can win by infinite combos go away is going to be frustrating no matter what they change it to. So many people, me included, rely on him so much to win battles we should have lost that no matter what they do it will be the spidey nerf all over again. It really is as simple as making the blue tiles random and hes done. Just do it already.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Almost everyone said LDaken was to prevalent, I don't mind seeing a nerf. I know the folks that have him covered are outraged (and I agree: timing was TERRIBLE). This nerf doesn't seem to make the 3* roster most-used character unusable.

    I applaud adding a third ability to 2* Dark Avengers Daken, as the level shift really hurt the 2* characters with only two abilities. Only one left in 2* land, but I hope all the two ability characters get their third cover soon. Please no more characters rushed out with two abilities, hold them back and develop/test the third ability first. Thankfully with Daken the added color will be the one that only three covers are needed for...finding five covers of one cover while throwing out the others you've already covered over and over again is quite frustrating.
  • greengiant33
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    MPQ lost another paying customer. I plan to play but you will not get another penny from me. I have loved playing with daken classic and this nerf to a newish character is annoying. All these other nerfs announced yet still no action on them. Sick of spending money/time for a character.

    Greengiant33
  • Unknown
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    morgh wrote:
    That's so nice of them with waiting until I sell my extra Daken covers before they let me know that I should have respecced him... awesome!

    i know...im in the same boat except i used my 4 reward covers to start a new dakan. I never would have done that if i knew this change was coming.

    same old kitty from this inept team of kittys

    marc
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    sms4002 wrote:
    You can balance daken theough simple bumber tweaks and still have him be at its core the same style of character. Any changes they make to cmags is not going to be anywhere near as simple as reducing damage and lowering heal. It doesnt excuse them from not changing the character for however many months its been, but you should easily see why they released these daken nerfs ao fast compared to spidey/cmags.

    absolutely not. So you are telling me taking about 1 minute 48.2 seconds (approximately) to make mag c blue protect tiles randomized is a more difficult fix than than what just happened to daken? No sir. I disagree.

    Im not talking about the difficulty of implementation, im saying that cmags is broken in a way that requires some change to the core functionality of how his character is played and requires actual design decisions as to what kind of fix they should implement to balence the character while not pissing off the entire forum that their beloved cmags cant infinitely chain turns with blue anymore. Updated daken is basically identical to prenerf daken except he heals a little less and has weaker strike tiles: updated cmags blue is going to look nothing like how it is now. Watch the forum reaction regarding these nerfs vs spidey nerfs, and its pretty obvious why they would roll out a change like this so quickly vs something like a cmags nerf.

    People are going to get pissed no matter what. Having a broken character that can win by infinite combos go away is going to be frustrating no matter what they change it to. So many people, me included, rely on him so much to win battles we should have lost that no matter what they do it will be the spidey nerf all over again. It really is as simple as making the blue tiles random and hes done. Just do it already.

    Yeah but the amount of pissed people is going to vary dramatically because the daken change isnt as controversial. Daken nerfs arent going to spawn a 50 page thread about how d3 sucks like the spidey (and im guessing cmags) will because the changes simply arent as drastic.
  • Unknown
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    And..... the Daken nerf just went live, with less than 6h to go in the current PvE.

    One would think to not even feel anything anymore over this, given the number of times they consistently nerf key characters in the last moments of events. icon_rolleyes.gif .

    /sigh
  • Nemek
    Nemek Posts: 1,511
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    Lyrian wrote:
    And..... the Daken nerf just went live, with less than 6h to go in the current PvE.

    One would think to not even feel anything anymore over this, given the number of times they consistently nerf key characters in the last moments of events. icon_rolleyes.gif .

    /sigh

    Has it? I saw a data update go through, but I don't see any changes to either Daken.
  • Unknown
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    morgh wrote:
    That's so nice of them with waiting until I sell my extra Daken covers before they let me know that I should have respecced him... awesome!

    Yeah, I'm going to jump on this bandwagon as well. This about a million times over. I don't hate the adjustments. He was very strong, he'll still be strong, just a little less strong. Whatever. But to have an event that gives out covers for a character you're planning on altering and there's no information about the upcoming change so people can use those covers to compensate for the changes? That's just beyond stupid. Or it's just pure **** trolling. There is no third possibility. A warning that these changes were coming should have appeared in game and here on the forum WELL BEFORE the IM40 event ended. Not posted three hours after, or two hours after the rewards were given out and everyone who was set with their build already sold their covers.

    This game suffers in the worst way from lack of information. It's how I ended up here in the first place. "What's with these numbers in this event? Why do they go up and down?" You know there's an Event Rules tab in every event. You know what's not on that tab? Anything that explains the rules of the game. And now we're not even getting a news pop-up. How about you guys get your **** together and start communicating like a half-way respectable company? Okay? That would be great. Thanks.
  • Unknown
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    Nemek wrote:
    Lyrian wrote:
    And..... the Daken nerf just went live, with less than 6h to go in the current PvE.

    One would think to not even feel anything anymore over this, given the number of times they consistently nerf key characters in the last moments of events. icon_rolleyes.gif .

    /sigh

    Has it? I saw a data update go through, but I don't see any changes to either Daken.

    He's nerfed on my device... and yeah, its a rough nerf.

    He's still non-suicidal with 5 Black, but his strike tiles have been nerfed to the point where Bullseye's defense tiles can effectively lock him down hard now. No more overpowering Bullseye with sheer strike tiles. That logic probably stands for any defense tile generator. More than 2 defense tiles out pretty much cripples Daken's offense now.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
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    You can balance daken theough simple bumber tweaks and still have him be at its core the same style of character. Any changes they make to cmags is not going to be anywhere near as simple as reducing damage and lowering heal. It doesnt excuse them from not changing the character for however many months its been, but you should easily see why they released these daken nerfs ao fast compared to spidey/cmags.

    absolutely not. So you are telling me taking about 1 minute 48.2 seconds (approximately) to make mag c blue protect tiles randomized is a more difficult fix than than what just happened to daken? No sir. I disagree.

    Im not talking about the difficulty of implementation, im saying that cmags is broken in a way that requires some change to the core functionality of how his character is played and requires actual design decisions as to what kind of fix they should implement to balence the character while not pissing off the entire forum that their beloved cmags cant infinitely chain turns with blue anymore. Updated daken is basically identical to prenerf daken except he heals a little less and has weaker strike tiles: updated cmags blue is going to look nothing like how it is now. Watch the forum reaction regarding these nerfs vs spidey nerfs, and its pretty obvious why they would roll out a change like this so quickly vs something like a cmags nerf.

    Everyone has been anxiously awaiting C.Mags nerf, so there wouldn't be that much of a riot. Fixing him wouldn't be that hard either; make it so his blue can only be placed on normal color tiles and up his red cost 1 or 2. Instead of nerfing C.Mags, who honestly has gotten me through battles that should have completely wrecked me with any other character, they nerf a character who is only a hair OP (if at all) out of the blue and is not even on the list?

    Sorry, but I have to descent on this one. They need to reorganize their priorities.
  • Unknown
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    They probably needed this Daken nerf before the Magneto nerf because without Magneto you don't have any good way to deal with Daken anymore, though I wouldn't be surprised if it took 3 months before the Magneto nerf that everyone know is coming actually happened.

    Marvel Captain's passive seems like a more deadly version of Anger. Will Supernova trigger the passive? Berserker Rage would be a good way to force the passive to kick in.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2014
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    Dauthi wrote:
    You can balance daken theough simple bumber tweaks and still have him be at its core the same style of character. Any changes they make to cmags is not going to be anywhere near as simple as reducing damage and lowering heal. It doesnt excuse them from not changing the character for however many months its been, but you should easily see why they released these daken nerfs ao fast compared to spidey/cmags.

    absolutely not. So you are telling me taking about 1 minute 48.2 seconds (approximately) to make mag c blue protect tiles randomized is a more difficult fix than than what just happened to daken? No sir. I disagree.

    Im not talking about the difficulty of implementation, im saying that cmags is broken in a way that requires some change to the core functionality of how his character is played and requires actual design decisions as to what kind of fix they should implement to balence the character while not pissing off the entire forum that their beloved cmags cant infinitely chain turns with blue anymore. Updated daken is basically identical to prenerf daken except he heals a little less and has weaker strike tiles: updated cmags blue is going to look nothing like how it is now. Watch the forum reaction regarding these nerfs vs spidey nerfs, and its pretty obvious why they would roll out a change like this so quickly vs something like a cmags nerf.

    Everyone has been anxiously awaiting C.Mags nerf, so there wouldn't be that much of a riot. Fixing him wouldn't be that hard either; make it so his blue can only be placed on normal color tiles and up his red cost 1 or 2. Instead of nerfing C.Mags, who honestly has gotten me through battles that should have completely wrecked me with any other character, they nerf a character who is only a hair OP (if at all) out of the blue and is not even on the list?

    Sorry, but I have to descent on this one. They need to reorganize their priorities.

    Remember how the spidey nerf was highly awaited as well and how they announced it a week before it was released and it STILL spawned that 50 page thread? Im not saying that they should hold off on nerfing cmags, im just saying that it makes sense why daken would be nerfed first, since the public reaction to these nerfs are going to be nowhere near the reaction of cmags nerf, which is going to create a shitstorm like spidey. I think its pretty unlikely that theyd implement your reasonable nerfs since any op character rework has ended up obsoleting the character and led to forum outrage, which is almost guaranteed what going to happen to cmags.
  • Unknown
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    fidsah wrote:
    i cannot believe daken is being nerfed. that's going to be a terrible day for me
    For such a minor nerf?
    fidsah wrote:
    These changes are horrible and way too severe. Daken is completely unusable now.

    icon_mrgreen.gif
  • Unknown
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    Malcoran wrote:
    fidsah wrote:
    i cannot believe daken is being nerfed. that's going to be a terrible day for me
    For such a minor nerf?
    fidsah wrote:
    These changes are horrible and way too severe. Daken is completely unusable now.

    icon_mrgreen.gif

    Haha, I was expecting nobody to catch that.
  • Unknown
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    Very weird.

    My Daken reverted back to the old strike tile (68 x 2) level of power, but the Healing/Heat nerf is still in effect. (5 Black = 7 Blue to regen)

    -- 2** Daken Chemical Reaction appears to be disabled as well; roster 2** Daken and 2** enemy Dakens still do not appear have the skill present at 0 covers.