2AP abilities should be nerfed

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

And all spidey would need is one blue match...

I am not afraid of max level rags even if i sit mine, i would just bring spidey and mags; spidey stall him while mag kills him in 1 translocation.

Again, there wouldn't be any blue or purple tiles because Ragnarok would convert them into green, and when most of the tiles are green, all of the match 4's he causes will clear the entire row, gaining every tile on that row and destroying all of spideys web tiles. Their is no competition when the other team can't get a turn when Rag's first ability feeds his second, causing even more cascades and destroying any tiles in the two middle rows. All Ragnarok needs is one red match too.

And since you're bringing in mags with spidey, then what is stopping rags being paired with another character who could continue matching red tiles, even if rags is stunned?

because you (ignorantly) said ragnarok can take out a 3* team by himself

Sorry, I read your other message wrong when you put "by himself" and using / to separate characters. Either way, he could. One Ragnarok with a team of 2 1* characters could easily destroy a team of 3* characters, the 1* team members just there to make a team and to continue matching tiles while Rag is stunned (if ever).

I totally disagree. Without a good support team rags would still be "just ok" There are a few different teams that could take down a max rags with any 2 max 1*. Dumdumdugn mentioned a good 1 above. Spidey dr doom mag storm c other rags punisher (soon) Thor and a bunch of others can all take down a badly supported rags if out together well.

Rags only OP feature is his health in lightning rounds. Every1 makes too big a deal.

Unknown

Sorry, I read your other message wrong when you put "by himself" and using / to separate characters. Either way, he could. One Ragnarok with a team of 2 1* characters could easily destroy a team of 3* characters, the 1* team members just there to make a team and to continue matching tiles while Rag is stunned (if ever).

I totally disagree. Without a good support team rags would still be "just ok" There are a few different teams that could take down a max rags with any 2 max 1*. Dumdumdugn mentioned a good 1 above. Spidey dr doom mag storm c other rags punisher (soon) Thor and a bunch of others can all take down a badly supported rags if out together well.

Rags only OP feature is his health in lightning rounds. Every1 makes too big a deal.

6 red AP is all you need to cause 3,000 damage, and that is not counting any damage from the cascades and critical tiles that would come when 15 tiles green tiles are generated on the board. Once you get multiple AP from clearing multiple rows, plus another 1,000 damage from self matches, then you could use Ragnaroks or any other characters green power, since you just gained a ton of green AP. Oh, what is that? Another red match? Their goes another 1,000 damage plus another 5 green tiles on the board to contribute to your green power. If you haven't read all of the posts in this thread, please do so, you'll see why Ragnarok needs to be balanced out with all of the various points people have made early on in the thread.

Unknown

I'm not sure why nobody has responded to this post yet since it brings up some good points that I would like some responses to, so here it is:

I can't believe this conversation is still going on. The reason why people who have maxed rags don't want him nerfed is not because they paid for it (not the main reason,) but because they want matches to be incredibly easy so that their is no skill involved. Nobody pays much attention to mags or spideys 2 AP power because it isn't as game breaking as Ragnaroks. Ragnarok is the most spammable and damaging character when it comes to a damage:AP ratio. I would without a doubt rather fight a team with a maxed mag or spidey than a team with a 2 AP rag. Go a few matches without your maxed rag to fight a maxed one and see for yourself how hard and annoying it'll be to fight him. 6 red AP for more than 3,000 damage combined with multiple match 4 and 5 tiles on almost every row, helped with critical tiles and any other team member with a strong green power, you're maxed 3* character is already dead without even using one single power.

Unknown

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Did you count in all the self matches that would come with 12 red AP? You have to count in all tile damage with multiple match 4 and 5 matches plus critical tiles, especially getting another turn when you could manually move a critical tile or some other green tile in between 4 other tiles, or L and T shapes. You would get about 4 or 5 AP, maybe even more, of almost every other color and 30 green AP.

Magnetos purple takes time to get. It isn't like Ragnaroks where it only requires 2 AP to cause complete mayhem on the board.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Your calculation is incorrect. At max level, a red strike is minimum 620. You underestimate the additional damage from getting matching >3 green tiles and the cascade effect. It easily go into thousands when you consider >5 gets use the critical hit bonus.


My take would be 620*6=3720 + a very conservative number of 1000 points for matching/critical bonus/chains = 4720.
And lets not forget that >3 green tiles clear the whole row, which can yield you more red, meaning you can have more than 6 attacks

Now let’s count the greens.
6 red attacks yield 5 green tiles. So easily you will max his green powers to 30AP. Which means 5 green strikes
That is around 350*5 = 1750. However this is a very low number. With 6 red strikes – you would definitely earn more than 30 greens because of all the matches. If this was a 1v1 PVP, once the green AP is almost maxed out, you will stop the Red strike and do a few greens. Then go back to red strikes, collect more greens.
So let’s consider a very conservative 12 additional greens, which means 2 more green strikes adding another 750.
And we have not counted all the possible matches we get by getting new tiles in the 2 center rows

So the minimum damage for 12 red AP would be 4720 + 1750 + 750 = 7220

That kills Magento off and then some

Unknown

My argument isn't that rag isn't a bad*ss. My argument is that he isn't unstoppable. On offense sometimes you just can't get the right tiles. 2ap or 10ap costs doesn't matter to any cover when you have 0 ap. And a max rag on defense as we've stated can easily be taken out. I don't skip too much. I fight the lvl 90-100 rags all the time with my level 77 3ap rag. He's really good but the problem is being way over dramatized. It's a very minor advantage of others, at apsolute most just raising all levels if red costs by 1ap would be as far as it should/could be taken.

Unknown

morphy wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Your calculation is incorrect. At max level, a red strike is minimum 620. You underestimate the additional damage from getting matching >3 green tiles and the cascade effect. It easily go into thousands when you consider >5 gets use the critical hit bonus.


My take would be 620*6=3720 + a very conservative number of 1000 points for matching/critical bonus/chains = 4720.
And lets not forget that >3 green tiles clear the whole row, which can yield you more red, meaning you can have more than 6 attacks

Now let’s count the greens.
6 red attacks yield 5 green tiles. So easily you will max his green powers to 30AP. Which means 5 green strikes
That is around 350*5 = 1750. However this is a very low number. With 6 red strikes – you would definitely earn more than 30 greens because of all the matches. If this was a 1v1 PVP, once the green AP is almost maxed out, you will stop the Red strike and do a few greens. Then go back to red strikes, collect more greens.
So let’s consider a very conservative 12 additional greens, which means 2 more green strikes adding another 750.
And we have not counted all the possible matches we get by getting new tiles in the 2 center rows

So the minimum damage for 12 red AP would be 4720 + 1750 + 750 = 7220

That kills Magento off and then some

Finally, someone who understands my point that I've been trying to get across this whole time. Numbers don't lie, but they can vary and possibly be off by a bit. If only we can get video of a maxed rag with 12 red AP to see the results in action.

Unknown

Sorry my bad its 620 not 560 (not sure where i got 560 from). Lol your edited math is just a little more damage than mine and that's supposed to disprove what i've been saying?

I have a LVL 115 rag. He's good. He's the best. But he's not the be-all and end-all.

His red is fun to build green AP for wolverine or grey widow or storm (either version). Godlike power is average.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Sorry my bad its 620 not 560 (not sure where i got 560 from). Lol your edited math is just a little more damage than mine and that's supposed to disprove what i've been saying?

I have a LVL 115 rag. He's good. He's the best. But he's not the be-all and end-all.

His red is fun to build green AP for wolverine or grey widow or storm (either version). Godlike power is average.

Finally you acknowledge that he's the best, and not only the best, but nobody even comes close to what he can do. He completely changes the board to his advantage for a tiny AP cost.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Sorry my bad its 620 not 560 (not sure where i got 560 from). Lol your edited math is just a little more damage than mine and that's supposed to disprove what i've been saying?

I have a LVL 115 rag. He's good. He's the best. But he's not the be-all and end-all.

His red is fun to build green AP for wolverine or grey widow or storm (either version). Godlike power is average.

Finally you acknowledge that he's the best, and not only the best, but nobody even comes close to what he can do. He completely changes the board to his advantage for a tiny AP cost. Mags or spidey don't possess the power to do that at such a low amount.

Why does the best need to get nerfed (and nerfed hard, judging by some comments)? There is a pecking order (i.e. tiers) in every game. Anybody that plays any competitive game will tell you that.

Ragnarok is the best and could use a slight nerf, if at all. If rag gets nerfed hard, people will start complaining about magneto. If magneto then gets nerfed, everyone will complain about spidey.

You know what we will end up with? A **** game where it takes 20 minutes to finish a match.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Sorry my bad its 620 not 560 (not sure where i got 560 from). Lol your edited math is just a little more damage than mine and that's supposed to disprove what i've been saying?

I have a LVL 115 rag. He's good. He's the best. But he's not the be-all and end-all.

His red is fun to build green AP for wolverine or grey widow or storm (either version). Godlike power is average.

Finally you acknowledge that he's the best, and not only the best, but nobody even comes close to what he can do. He completely changes the board to his advantage for a tiny AP cost. Mags or spidey don't possess the power to do that at such a low amount.

Why does the best need to get nerfed (and nerfed hard, judging by some comments)? There is a pecking order (i.e. tiers) in every game. Anybody that plays any competitive game will tell you that.

Ragnarok is the best and could use a slight nerf, if at all. If rag gets nerfed hard, people will start complaining about magneto. If magneto then gets nerfed, everyone will complain about spidey.

You know what we will end up with? A tinykitty game where it takes 20 minutes to finish a match.

Every game has it's tiers, but Ragnarok is on his own tier, far above any other character. I only want him nerfed enough to be balanced. I don't know how C. Storm is now considered useless since she is still really good as a support character, they only removed her overpowered aspect and put it to where it should have been. Nerfing anything hard to the point where it is a dud is the last thing the dev and players want, but people tend to over exaggerate to any change in a game.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Sorry my bad its 620 not 560 (not sure where i got 560 from). Lol your edited math is just a little more damage than mine and that's supposed to disprove what i've been saying?

I have a LVL 115 rag. He's good. He's the best. But he's not the be-all and end-all.

His red is fun to build green AP for wolverine or grey widow or storm (either version). Godlike power is average.

Finally you acknowledge that he's the best, and not only the best, but nobody even comes close to what he can do. He completely changes the board to his advantage for a tiny AP cost. Mags or spidey don't possess the power to do that at such a low amount.

Why does the best need to get nerfed (and nerfed hard, judging by some comments)? There is a pecking order (i.e. tiers) in every game. Anybody that plays any competitive game will tell you that.

Ragnarok is the best and could use a slight nerf, if at all. If rag gets nerfed hard, people will start complaining about magneto. If magneto then gets nerfed, everyone will complain about spidey.

You know what we will end up with? A tinykitty game where it takes 20 minutes to finish a match.

Every game has it's tiers, but Ragnarok is on his own tier, far above any other character. I only want him nerfed enough to be balanced. I don't know how C. Storm is now considered useless since she is still really good as a support character, they only removed her overpowered aspect and put it to where it should have been. Nerfing anything hard to the point where it is a dud is the last thing the dev and players want, but people tend to over exaggerate to any change in a game.

C.Storm's blue is the most powerful 2-star ability. 5000 cumulative damage with 4 turn stun for 11 AP. Two of them outdamage IM40 blue at 141, cost less AP, and deals more stun

Unknown

Ragnarok is barely better than magneto or spidey. Use him outside of DA tourneys and lightning tourneys please.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

morphy wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Your calculation is incorrect. At max level, a red strike is minimum 620. You underestimate the additional damage from getting matching >3 green tiles and the cascade effect. It easily go into thousands when you consider >5 gets use the critical hit bonus.


My take would be 620*6=3720 + a very conservative number of 1000 points for matching/critical bonus/chains = 4720.
And lets not forget that >3 green tiles clear the whole row, which can yield you more red, meaning you can have more than 6 attacks

Now let’s count the greens.
6 red attacks yield 5 green tiles. So easily you will max his green powers to 30AP. Which means 5 green strikes
That is around 350*5 = 1750. However this is a very low number. With 6 red strikes – you would definitely earn more than 30 greens because of all the matches. If this was a 1v1 PVP, once the green AP is almost maxed out, you will stop the Red strike and do a few greens. Then go back to red strikes, collect more greens.
So let’s consider a very conservative 12 additional greens, which means 2 more green strikes adding another 750.
And we have not counted all the possible matches we get by getting new tiles in the 2 center rows

So the minimum damage for 12 red AP would be 4720 + 1750 + 750 = 7220

That kills Magento off and then some

Finally, someone who understands my point that I've been trying to get across this whole time. Numbers don't lie, but they can vary and possibly be off by a bit. If only we can get video of a maxed rag with 12 red AP to see the results in action.

Magneto with 10 blue can more damage than Rag can ever do with 12 red.

The true issue isn't that Rag is too strong. It is that most covers are too weak.

Personally I think the Devs should change the 5 green generated to 3 green and 2 black or purple. Then add damage to his green power. This way he has more synergy with more covers.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Ragnarok is barely better than magneto or spidey. Use him outside of DA tourneys and lightning tourneys please.

.....

I feel like everything I say and anything every other person has said about Ragnarok has gone over your head. You have made no apparent progress at all and are still defending Ragnarok on how he isn't overpowered, continually comparing him to spidey and mag when they are completely different and less powerful than him, even though they aren't even a part of this whole argument that you and I are having. You don't even want to look at the numbers and continue to neglect that his generating 5 green tiles to the board with only 2 AP isn't a problem, only going in circles and avoiding the problem at hand. I don't really want to respond to this thread anymore because apparently their is no point in doing so, with me repeating and repeating the same thing with you going in a different direction and coming back with the same argument every time, but I probably will continue, just because I can't help myself. I really hope you aren't trying to troll because I have had the feeling that you were since the beginning because your logic and understanding don't make sense, but I know you are not. If you could just look at the facts that everyone has been making, I would be so happy, but it looks as if that is not possible. Oh well.

Unknown

Well GT, that whole large paragraph just sounded like non sense tbh. Maybe the problem is you are too close minded too realize any1 else's view and that you could be totally wrong? (Because you totally are) also maybe the reason your getting nowhere is because like you says you keep saying the same thing over n over and expecting it to somehow turn from non sense to correct? You sound like a republican

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

Ragnarok is barely better than magneto or spidey. Use him outside of DA tourneys and lightning tourneys please.

+1

Outside of Lightning rounds where he is buffed I'm not put off teams that have a high level Rag. I don't find him hard to deal with or overpowered and for the record I don't have a high lvl Rags (L18), C.Mag(L20) or C.Spiderman (L30).

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Ragnarok is barely better than magneto or spidey. Use him outside of DA tourneys and lightning tourneys please.

.....

I feel like everything I say and anything every other person has said about Ragnarok has gone over your head. You have made no apparent progress at all and are still defending Ragnarok on how he isn't overpowered, continually comparing him to spidey and mag when they are completely different and less powerful than him, even though they aren't even a part of this whole argument that you and I are having. You don't even want to look at the numbers and continue to neglect that his generating 5 green tiles to the board with only 2 AP isn't a problem, only going in circles and avoiding the problem at hand. I don't really want to respond to this thread anymore because apparently their is no point in doing so, with me repeating and repeating the same thing with you going in a different direction and coming back with the same argument every time, but I probably will continue, just because I can't help myself. I really hope you aren't trying to troll because I have had the feeling that you were since the beginning because your logic and understanding don't make sense, but I know you are not. If you could just look at the facts that everyone has been making, I would be so happy, but it looks as if that is not possible. Oh well.

Theres way more people agreeing with my POV than yours lmao

Unknown

Frozen wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

morphy wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

Go use ragnarok in shield training vs a high hp team. You will see how freakin long it takes to kill a team with an unbuffed ragnarok. He's not that good without a green-centric character or strike tiles (not coincidentally, he's BFFs with wolverine).

12 red AP = 560 x 6 = 3200 dmg + whatever matches for ~150 each match. Lets say 5 matches. That's under 4000 damage. Doesn't even kill magneto.

Magneto 10 purple AP = at least 6000 dmg, could go higher. Can easily 1-shot a LVL 115 ragnarok.

Your calculation is incorrect. At max level, a red strike is minimum 620. You underestimate the additional damage from getting matching >3 green tiles and the cascade effect. It easily go into thousands when you consider >5 gets use the critical hit bonus.


My take would be 620*6=3720 + a very conservative number of 1000 points for matching/critical bonus/chains = 4720.
And lets not forget that >3 green tiles clear the whole row, which can yield you more red, meaning you can have more than 6 attacks

Now let’s count the greens.
6 red attacks yield 5 green tiles. So easily you will max his green powers to 30AP. Which means 5 green strikes
That is around 350*5 = 1750. However this is a very low number. With 6 red strikes – you would definitely earn more than 30 greens because of all the matches. If this was a 1v1 PVP, once the green AP is almost maxed out, you will stop the Red strike and do a few greens. Then go back to red strikes, collect more greens.
So let’s consider a very conservative 12 additional greens, which means 2 more green strikes adding another 750.
And we have not counted all the possible matches we get by getting new tiles in the 2 center rows

So the minimum damage for 12 red AP would be 4720 + 1750 + 750 = 7220

That kills Magento off and then some

Finally, someone who understands my point that I've been trying to get across this whole time. Numbers don't lie, but they can vary and possibly be off by a bit. If only we can get video of a maxed rag with 12 red AP to see the results in action.

Magneto with 10 blue can more damage than Rag can ever do with 12 red.

The true issue isn't that Rag is too strong. It is that most covers are too weak.

Personally I think the Devs should change the 5 green generated to 3 green and 2 black or purple. Then add damage to his green power. This way he has more synergy with more covers.

Oh my god that would make him even crazier. Fueling magneto's purple? YIKES