2AP abilities should be nerfed

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

It's true rag is a money maker for the devs but that's necessary. I also think the Pve aspect needs to be thought about also though. A nerf to rag also means a nerf to your best weapon against those 230's.

I agree. And i think the developers know this. That is why in most of the recent PVE experience, Rag is always an opponent in the last level. The developers doesn't want you to use it as it they know it is too powerful.

Now they use a new strategy of over-maxing the bad guys and forcing you to use a sh*tty character (like IW) to make it "hard".

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

It's true rag is a money maker for the devs but that's necessary. I also think the Pve aspect needs to be thought about also though. A nerf to rag also means a nerf to your best weapon against those 230's.

They had no problem nerfing c.Storm. I think she got like 3 nerfs over the game's span?

c.Storm was the Queen of f2p and Rags the king of pay2win. Nerfing her was basically telling people to go buy Rags.

Unknown

It sounds like there are a couple issues raised here.

1. It takes too long to defeat opponents with Ragnarok and/or Spider Man on the team.
2. The tendency to get destroyed by high level Ragnarok and/or Spider Man teams

I like to use different lineups to fight opponents. I don't think 5-turn wins were what the devs were thinking. 3 star characters are supposed to be better than 2 star. It's a different league. I don't know why 4 star are whacked. It seems that they aren't done tweaking the characters.

One could make an argument that Thor needs to be nerfed because his ability is so much better than IM 35 Red. That's if we use the argument that Ragnarok needs nerfing because he has so much much more HP or is more AP efficient than Thor.

I've had more defeats due to Raging Tempest simply by forgetting to attack Storm first. These defeats almost always happened in the first turn. I've not been defeated by Ragnarok/Spider Man any more than any other lineup. 2 star Wolverine is more intimidating than Ragnarok. Wolverine is scarier when paired with ragnarok.

Ragnarok is meh to me. Mine is at level 90 and I don't have much interest in him. FYI, my Hood and Loki are 80. Otherwise I have all 3 star available.

Edit: lowest level 3 star in my roster is 80

Unknown

ChachieMusic wrote:

You might be but, everyone is not. I've seen A LOT of players with VERY high level teams, multiple maxed out Rags, Spideys and other 3* and 2* characters. I've been playing since day 1 and don't see how this is possible unless you made some sort of investment into the game. (For the record, I've played almost constantly.) Heck, I had almost 37,000 ISO saved up and spent most of it and was only able to get Rag to level 110 and it's asking for over 2000 ISO for the next level.

At this point it's quite possible. I haven't spent a dime on the game, I haven't played since day 1 (I think I started the 2nd week because I kept forgetting to download the game), and I have a L120 IM40, L89 Rags, L66 Spidey, and numerous other leveled or maxed out 3* and 2*, not to mention the 1*s. And there are people who play more than me and/or have better luck with pulls.

If you want to pay2win then you have to dump a LOT of money into the game... the ISO buys are laughable ($150 to level up a 2* or $300 to level up a 3*) and HP aren't much better ($5 for one 2* power w/ change, $20 for 2 3* power ups). You cannot buy specific covers no matter how much money you dump in (the only two exceptions have been the IM40 only token and the Spidey only token). Buying tokens with HP, particularly purchased HP, is a fool's game.

I'm all for people buying stuff -- it keeps the game running -- but this game is so far from pay2win it's laughable. It might give you an edge, but it's not much of one. I will eventually buy something just to support the game, but it's pretty unlikely that it'll be because I need the stuff.

The one caveat to this is buying HP for cover slots early on -- from posts here it seems that getting enough slots is much, much harder now than it was before they changed to tokens and changed slot pricing. But it's not at all clear that doing this will give you an advantage long term since so many characters are trash.

Unknown

Possibilities for having high levelled heroes:
1) Pay
2) Facebook
3) Be lucky enough with getting red Rags
4) All of the above.

Neither of these really apply to me so my characters are pretty underlevelled. It wasn't until last week or so that I finally had a max levelled 2-star. But it wasn't necessary for success. My gameplan was exploiting boosted characters, so I have a plethora of mid-levelled characters to choose from and practically never have to worry about downtime from heals.

Unknown

I play this game all the time; the only reason this is my first post to the forum is that I'm usually playing PQ on my phone and can't justify breaking long enough to say anything on a forum. I have so far not invested any cash in this game and have so far not done anything with Ragnarok (have only pulled one of his covers), and have been fairly competitive in the tournaments (2nd in Thor, first in Top Shot due to that being before they made C. Storm less crazy). With an open field, the advantage he gives people (while not inconsiderable) is not insurmountable. That being said, the advantage he gives people weekly in the speed evil tournaments (and twice this week in the limited pool of the DA tournaments) is kind of insurmountable. His influence in these competitive fields is downright degenerate.

If there's to be no Rag-Nerfing (and, just to weigh in, there's no reason for anyone to have a 2 ap damaging ability that adds five friendly colored tiles to the board, regardless of how many stars are next to his name), can the devs at least take him out of Speed Evil rotations/buff other dark avengers so that he isn't the only game in town?

Nemek

ihearthawthats wrote:

Possibilities for having high levelled heroes:
1) Pay
2) Facebook
3) Be lucky enough with getting red Rags
4) All of the above.

Neither of these really apply to me so my characters are pretty underlevelled. It wasn't until last week or so that I finally had a max levelled 2-star. But it wasn't necessary for success. My gameplan was exploiting boosted characters, so I have a plethora of mid-levelled characters to choose from and practically never have to worry about downtime from heals.

I think people really underestimate how much Facebook had an impact on the amount of ISO people got. Before the nerfs/fixes, some people would probably rake in 5 times (or more) as much from FB compared to what they got from actually playing the game. I'd say the majority of people with high-level characters got the ISO from FB. Though, I'd also say that the people with high-level Rags probably put a few dollars down to bump up his red a level or two.

Unknown

I had been sitting on a metric ton of hp from tourneys when I pulled his red. I brought him to 4 with those and lucked out by pulling another red a few days after that. Sitting at 2/5 now.

So when I say he should get tweaked down a bit, know that I have a vested interest in him.

Unknown

There's a difference between nerfing and balancing in my opinion. Yes, the rare characters should be more powerful than the common ones, but 2AP procs are a little overboard. While I do not have either Rag or Spidey, I'm not saying we should nerf them in to the ground. Those who have high-level versions of either of these characters either worked hard to get them, or paid good money for them. They should be powerful; that's why there are rare, but there has to be some reasonable limit. This is a call for balance, not nerfing.

To have Rag and Spidey proc the way they do is a tad much. Think about it, if you have Rag on your squad and you put up 3x boosts, +3 all AP, +3 red/yellow, and +20% red/yellow damage, you open the game with 3x procs, which pretty much ends the match before it even begins. IMO, assuming no boosts, all abilities should require at least 2 matches to proc (i.e. minimum of 4 AP). A high-level Rag is automatic skip for me on tourneys because even a dim-witted CPU opponent can destroy you with no effort.

(BTW, from a nerdy standpoint, I don't understand how a clone of Thor is more powerful than Thor himself.)

Unknown

I get that they should be better than 2-stars, but they're also better than other 3-stars and 4-stars(lol).

By this logic, Wolvie and IW should be 2 of the best characters. I wouldn't mind seeing buffs to those characters to please the pay2win crowd as compensation for nerfing Rags.

I think to not make 4-stars be too broken, they could implement the "one per deck" rule that some CCGs use. So you can't just have a team full of 4-stars and dominate.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

I get that they should be better than 2-stars, but they're also better than other 3-stars and 4-stars(lol).

By this logic, Wolvie and IW should be 2 of the best characters. I wouldn't mind seeing buffs to those characters to please the pay2win crowd as compensation for nerfing Rags.

I'm so glad that I'm apparently pay2win even though I've never spent a dime on the game.

And yes, the 4* characters need to be buffed, and badly, as they currently do less damage than 3*'s in many circumstances. And that's just with matching. Their powers are also pathetic, and their health is nothing exciting either.

Unknown

Zathrus wrote:

I'm so glad that I'm apparently pay2win even though I've never spent a dime on the game.

Pay2win in the context that paying customers would get upset. As a non-paying customer, you should deal with it as all the f2p c.Storm users dealt with it.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Zathrus wrote:

I'm so glad that I'm apparently pay2win even though I've never spent a dime on the game.

Pay2win in the context that paying customers would get upset. As a non-paying customer, you should deal with it as all the f2p c.Storm users dealt with it.

Whether someone paid or not to build their Ragnarok is irrelevant. I think this Dev team understands they have to treat everyone well for the game to thrive.

Unknown

Misguided wrote:

Whether someone paid or not to build their Ragnarok is irrelevant. I think this Dev team understands they have to treat everyone well for the game to thrive.

After the nerf to c.Storm, the only motivation I can see for not nerfing Rags is because of paying customers.

You can't please everyone. I would think a nerf to Rags actually benefits the majority (as I don't think the majority are Rags users, especially not majority f2p users).

Dayv

ChachieMusic wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

ChachieMusic wrote:

As much as people complain about Rag, once they get that first red cover, they are usually ecstatic. Not only that but, many of them have and will spend money to level him up.

For just $50 I can get him from 6AP to 2AP! Ha. I'm patient, I have other characters.

You might be but, everyone is not. I've seen A LOT of players with VERY high level teams, multiple maxed out Rags, Spideys and other 3* and 2* characters. I've been playing since day 1 and don't see how this is possible unless you made some sort of investment into the game. (For the record, I've played almost constantly.) Heck, I had almost 37,000 ISO saved up and spent most of it and was only able to get Rag to level 110 and it's asking for over 2000 ISO for the next level.

You might be patient but, I don't believe you're naive. I believe some of these completely max level teams had to be invested in with real currency. (Note, I said *some*.)

Since this is a game that is F2P but, will fail if it doesn't make money (since that is one of the main objectives), something would be amiss if they didn't have people that were willing to dish out bucks for what they were offering for sale.

Oh, and I have shelled out. I have the 30 character slots to prove it. Not to mention a few slightly tipsy splurges on heroic tokens before the price hike.

Dayv

ihearthawthats wrote:

After the nerf to c.Storm, the only motivation I can see for not nerfing Rags is because of paying customers.

Other possible motivations:

* the developers haven't reached a consensus yet, either on whether to change or what to change.
* the developers have changes in mind, but they're still working out the details and/or beta-testing them.
* the developers don't agree that Ragnarok is overpowered.
* the developers believe that Ragnarok is somewhat unbalanced now, but new characters or other changes coming will change that balance in some way.
* the developers believe Ragnarok is overpowered, but they're having too much fun reading people's complaints to do anything about it.
* the developers have a strict "YOLO" policy and are moving on.

Dayv

WorstAvenger wrote:

(BTW, from a nerdy standpoint, I don't understand how a clone of Thor is more powerful than Thor himself.)

On this, I totally agree. It should be a tough fight, but Thor should win every time.

mags1587

I don't have Rags, but I do have Spidey, and just pulled my last blue cover for him recently, so I have his stun at 2ap now. I'm really not seeing where he's that overpowered on his own. It's certainly nice having the lower ap cost but I'm not seeing a huge difference in how I play. The only times Spidey's stuns have made a difference is when I'm playing teams vastly more powerful than mine and I need to keep that countdown tile from going off or my team will be wiped out (for example). Otherwise I'm mostly using him to heal up at the end of matches so I'm full strength for the next match.

DayvBang wrote:

WorstAvenger wrote:

(BTW, from a nerdy standpoint, I don't understand how a clone of Thor is more powerful than Thor himself.)

On this, I totally agree. It should be a tough fight, but Thor should win every time.

Based on some of the dialogue from The Hunt: Flordia, I'm betting he's not a clone at all.

Unknown

I am sure the same ppl saying "don't Nerf rag" also want a 4**** card worth its rating. Well, one of the problems with rag is the arms race it causes for the dev team to appease players. To top rag you'd need an even more abuseable character...and that's not really the goal...overpowered characters that kill on turn 1. While the ap may be the problem, I think a little more understanding solution would be to drop the green tile swap to only 2 at every level. That way thunderclap is more akin to an upgraded mjolnir (~1100 damage vs. ~660 * 3=1980 damage...5 tile swaps vs. 6 for the same ap cost (6) at max)..which is what it always should have been. This of course leaves room for a 4**** Thor to be better than either (which answers the question as to why a clone is stronger than Thor...only because we don't have "true" Thor yet).

It's very simple though, the devs will Nerf him...BALANCE him appropriately as long as it doesn't negatively affect them. I am not sure that will happen (yet), only because I wouldn't be surprised if their data indicates a higher than usual #purchased hp being spent on him. So while he may still be nerfed, I bet it will not be until they already have a new character in the wing they feel can fill that role of "o dang, I need to spend hp to get this guy up NOW.". ENTER THE HULK. which would also be a perfect time to Nerf thunderclap green building as I can only assume hulk will be 4**** or at least 3*** and be very dominant in green.

Unknown

This thread is getting a bit hot tempered.

With boosts I can down a maxed Ragnarok at full hp in 2 to 4 turns with three different lineups, none having Ragnarok, one lineup *needs* Spider Man. These are my favored lineups. I'm sure others others have lethal lineups more effective than mine when boosts are used.