2AP abilities should be nerfed

Unknown

MrMeer wrote:

johnnylawrwb wrote:

I think Gray Black Widow shows a good compromise. It doesn't take that long to activate her purple, once you do you should be getting around 9-18 greens and activating the sniper rifle, which is way more powerful than Rag's TC. Plus you're getting at least 2 criticals out of that purple too.

Personally, as convenient as it is, I'd like to see characters abilities that don't support their own abilities. Otherwise the stategy is too simplified. With characters whose abilities support other characters' abilities, it encourages creative team building.

For example, if Grey Suit's purple generated blue instead... Then the team building possiblities are huge...and using here is a trade off between supporing other characters (i.e. going for purple), and focusing on her own (i.e. going for green).

Everytime I activate Rag's green I go "ARGH, wrong ability".

Unknown

I still think Ragnarok's green tile generation should be reduced to 3. Raising cost to 3 wouldn't help. If you look around, there are still alot of teams running Classic Storm with high Ragnaroks. This is because 3-4 casts is all it takes to start the infinite loop of ability spam until you win the game. 3 red for thunderclap just means bring more boosts to ensure winning.

It's just silly when the third character doesn't matter at all except in terms of killing faster. Ragnarok + Classic Storm means that you can take on any team and win most times without taking any damage. Sure, sometimes rng royally screws you but that happens very rarely.

Just for fun I was farming that Alaska mission where they force Invisible Woman on you. Barely got hit. I just bring +3 all/+3 red, match any convenient red tiles on the first turn then start smashing away. The hardest part is sitting through Daken's passive triggers from the many green matches I got. The ap recovered from casting Storm's green just keeps Ragnarok going and fuels Storm's blue ability. In the missions where you can choose your third, killing speed increases a lot. I still can't believe that anyone reasonable who has Ragnarok at 5 red and played him with Classic Storm at 5 green doesn't see a problem.

Just my opinion but I'm sure the devs will change Ragnarok. It's either that or change Storm/boosts which will unfairly impact the entire player base.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

I feel that the devs know they have to nerf Ragnarok because of how incredibly powerful he is compared to all of the other characters and because of the numerous amounts to people who want him nerfed, but they also don't want to upset the player base that paid real money to get him maxed out. They are in a sticky situation, but a sensible nerf should keep everyone happy, such as making his red power cost 3 AP and only put out 3 green tiles, but I know they probably have other ideas.

lol 3 red AP for 3 green tiles...good thing you're not a dev

I'm guessing that you have Ragnarok and don't want him nerfed lol. I gave an example of how his ability could be toned down while not nerfing him too much.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

I feel that the devs know they have to nerf Ragnarok because of how incredibly powerful he is compared to all of the other characters and because of the numerous amounts to people who want him nerfed, but they also don't want to upset the player base that paid real money to get him maxed out. They are in a sticky situation, but a sensible nerf should keep everyone happy, such as making his red power cost 3 AP and only put out 3 green tiles, but I know they probably have other ideas.

lol 3 red AP for 3 green tiles...good thing you're not a dev

I'm guessing that you have Ragnarok and don't want him nerfed lol. I gave an example of how his ability could be toned down while not nerfing him too much.

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

Unknown

casuist wrote:

I still can't believe that anyone reasonable who has Ragnarok at 5 red and played him with Classic Storm at 5 green doesn't see a problem.

Never used them together, but what you are saying makes sense.

Unknown

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

What would you suggest would be a good nerf for Ragnarok? I'm sure that almost any suggestion is better than mine without nerfing him too much.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

What would you suggest would be a good nerf for Ragnarok? I'm sure that almost any suggestion is better than mine without nerfing him too much.

HP nerf (-25%) + move his red to 3 AP, +25% base damage on it, still generate 5 green.

Unknown

casuist wrote:

I still think Ragnarok's green tile generation should be reduced to 3. Raising cost to 3 wouldn't help. If you look around, there are still alot of teams running Classic Storm with high Ragnaroks. This is because 3-4 casts is all it takes to start the infinite loop of ability spam until you win the game. 3 red for thunderclap just means bring more boosts to ensure winning.

It's just silly when the third character doesn't matter at all except in terms of killing faster. Ragnarok + Classic Storm means that you can take on any team and win most times without taking any damage. Sure, sometimes rng royally screws you but that happens very rarely.

Just for fun I was farming that Alaska mission where they force Invisible Woman on you. Barely got hit. I just bring +3 all/+3 red, match any convenient red tiles on the first turn then start smashing away. The hardest part is sitting through Daken's passive triggers from the many green matches I got. The ap recovered from casting Storm's green just keeps Ragnarok going and fuels Storm's blue ability. In the missions where you can choose your third, killing speed increases a lot. I still can't believe that anyone reasonable who has Ragnarok at 5 red and played him with Classic Storm at 5 green doesn't see a problem.

Just my opinion but I'm sure the devs will change Ragnarok. It's either that or change Storm/boosts which will unfairly impact the entire player base.

I totally agree with you and i have the same experience. There is no strategy anymore - there isn't a need to even study the board to see what other matches can be done - just match Reds and it's game over. Zero skill involved. There is no joy to playing any other characters, when its so easily done.

I tried playing that Alaska mission without Ragnarok and it was a total nightmare. Made me think how can all the other 3-4 star characters be so pathetic? It takes forever to trigger their abilities. And the damage yield in the grand scheme of things isn't that impressive. If it takes me more than say 18 AP to fire something off, i expect to be able to kill a LVL230 Venom in a single shot.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

What would you suggest would be a good nerf for Ragnarok? I'm sure that almost any suggestion is better than mine without nerfing him too much.

HP nerf (-25%) + move his red to 3 AP, +25% base damage on it, still generate 5 green.

-25% HP wouldn't make sense, Ragnarok is supposed to be a tank and not a support character with low HP, and adding damage to a maxed Ragnarok would make him even more overpowered. 3 red AP would still be spammable, but being able to continue to generate 5 green tiles is still going to add to his green power, allowing him to continue to cause endless turns if he matches red. He looks almost exactly the same, just with his numbers skewed around. The thing people want nerfed is the 2 AP cost and the generate 5 green tiles effect, not the damage or his HP.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

What would you suggest would be a good nerf for Ragnarok? I'm sure that almost any suggestion is better than mine without nerfing him too much.

HP nerf (-25%) + move his red to 3 AP, +25% base damage on it, still generate 5 green.

-25% HP wouldn't make sense, Ragnarok is supposed to be a tank and not a support character with low HP, and adding damage to a maxed Ragnarok would make him even more overpowered. 3 red AP would still be spammable, but being able to continue to generate 5 green tiles is still going to add to his green power, allowing him to continue to cause endless turns if he matches red. He looks almost exactly the same, just with his numbers skewed around. The thing people want nerfed is the 2 AP cost and the generate 5 green tiles effect, not the damage or his HP.

The people that either worked hard or paid for their rags don't want him completely changed. Altering numbers is the only way about it. 3 AP instead of 2AP is a FIFTY PERCENT NERF. That isn't enough for you?

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

I want him nerfed so people stop whining but your suggestion is laughable

What would you suggest would be a good nerf for Ragnarok? I'm sure that almost any suggestion is better than mine without nerfing him too much.

HP nerf (-25%) + move his red to 3 AP, +25% base damage on it, still generate 5 green.

-25% HP wouldn't make sense, Ragnarok is supposed to be a tank and not a support character with low HP, and adding damage to a maxed Ragnarok would make him even more overpowered. 3 red AP would still be spammable, but being able to continue to generate 5 green tiles is still going to add to his green power, allowing him to continue to cause endless turns if he matches red. He looks almost exactly the same, just with his numbers skewed around. The thing people want nerfed is the 2 AP cost and the generate 5 green tiles effect, not the damage or his HP.

The damage isn't why people love his Red. I do think changing his 5th Red upgrade from -1 AP to +25% damage would solve a lot of problems though.

Going up to a 3 AP cost from 2 is a 50% increase in cost which translates to 33.33333~% fewer Thunderclaps. That would be a roughly 8% decrease in damage(assuming upgrade #5 is +25% damage) and a 33% reduction in number of green tiles generated.

Unknown

I'm still on the fence about raising cost to 3 red.

I think reducing green tile generation to 3 or 4 would be better but maybe 3 red would be work. I am sure 4 red would work with 5 green tiles generated. The reason is that right now if I'm in a hurry I just bring boosts to have 6 red at start and can pretty much win any match. If it cost 3 red, that just means I need 1 red match to get things going. Doesn't seem that hard at all.

HP/damage changes don't change anything as far as I'm concerned. The sheer amount of ap gained + incidental damage from crits mean that even if the ability did 0 damage and Ragnarok had 2000HP at max level, I'd still use him and not complain.

I just made a run for 2nd place in Big Thunder. Had 400ish points 15 minutes from the end. Smashed my way to 700+ for second without Ragnarok/Storm taking any damage at all. Thor took about 1k total. Each match took roughly 2minutes. These were max level teams but it didn't really matter because they only get 1-2 hits on on Thor while I get the 1-2 red matches I needed to win. My team was 70 Thor, 70 Ragnarok and 60 Classic Storm.

The problem isn't that Ragnarok is a tough opponent to fight and needs to be changed because people have trouble fighting him. It's that his generation of 5 green results in a situation where you never have to end your turn and can just keep cycling abilities until you win.

Unknown

The people that either worked hard or paid for their rags don't want him completely changed. Altering numbers is the only way about it. 3 AP instead of 2AP is a FIFTY PERCENT NERF. That isn't enough for you?

You need to understand that generating 5 green tiles with a whopping 2 AP is the problem, nothing else. You could have a 2000 HP Ragnarok that only does 200 damage and he would still be overpowered. You're trying to nerf Ragnarok himself rather than his main problem that actually needs nerfing, his low cost red power, which generates 5 green tiles.

Unknown

-25% HP wouldn't make sense, Ragnarok is supposed to be a tank and not a support character with low HP, and adding damage to a maxed Ragnarok would make him even more overpowered. 3 red AP would still be spammable, but being able to continue to generate 5 green tiles is still going to add to his green power, allowing him to continue to cause endless turns if he matches red. He looks almost exactly the same, just with his numbers skewed around. The thing people want nerfed is the 2 AP cost and the generate 5 green tiles effect, not the damage or his HP.

The damage isn't why people love his Red. I do think changing his 5th Red upgrade from -1 AP to +25% damage would solve a lot of problems though.

Going up to a 3 AP cost from 2 is a 50% increase in cost which translates to 33.33333~% fewer Thunderclaps. That would be a roughly 8% decrease in damage and a 33% reduction in number of green tiles generated.

I know, my 3 AP idea is one of the first posts down on the first page, including only generating 3 green tiles as well. Raising his AP cost and his generation count is the problem, not the damage.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

The people that either worked hard or paid for their rags don't want him completely changed. Altering numbers is the only way about it. 3 AP instead of 2AP is a FIFTY PERCENT NERF. That isn't enough for you?

You need to understand that generating 5 green tiles with a whopping 2 AP is the problem, nothing else. You could have a 2000 HP Ragnarok that only does 200 damage and he would still be overpowered. You're trying to nerf Ragnarok himself rather than his main problem that actually needs nerfing, his low cost red power, which generates 5 green tiles.

Changing the cost does change the number of green tiles he makes. I can't clearly tell which side of the argument you are on but you can read my post above if you'd like to know the ramifications of changing the 5th upgrade from -1 AP to + 25% damage.

Unknown

casuist wrote:

The problem isn't that Ragnarok is a tough opponent to fight and needs to be changed because people have trouble fighting him. It's that his generation of 5 green results in a situation where you never have to end your turn and can just keep cycling abilities until you win.

And good lord is it boring. If damage was nerfed a bit more, the length to which matches would be drawn might discourage his use in some situations.

Unknown

As much as people complain about Rag, once they get that first red cover, they are usually ecstatic. Not only that but, many of them have and will spend money to level him up. I didn't have Rag until I got a lucky cover pack pull but, I was happy for those that did. I actually never saw a need to nerf him.

I don't know why anyone would nerf what is probably the most invested in character in this game. How many people would that anger (Refund, anyone? ) and how many more people would just sit on their money instead of rushing to get covers for Rag to then level Rag. (Ah, fond memories of Loki and that backlash.)

I usually stay out of these conversations but, as someone who didn't have Rag for a long time, I never thought a nerf was fair to the people that did. Same with Spidey. I still don't have all of the covers but, I'm happy for those that do.

I guess I'm in the minority. Lol.

Unknown

GT-47LM wrote:

-25% HP wouldn't make sense, Ragnarok is supposed to be a tank and not a support character with low HP, and adding damage to a maxed Ragnarok would make him even more overpowered. 3 red AP would still be spammable, but being able to continue to generate 5 green tiles is still going to add to his green power, allowing him to continue to cause endless turns if he matches red. He looks almost exactly the same, just with his numbers skewed around. The thing people want nerfed is the 2 AP cost and the generate 5 green tiles effect, not the damage or his HP.

The damage isn't why people love his Red. I do think changing his 5th Red upgrade from -1 AP to +25% damage would solve a lot of problems though.

Going up to a 3 AP cost from 2 is a 50% increase in cost which translates to 33.33333~% fewer Thunderclaps. That would be a roughly 8% decrease in damage and a 33% reduction in number of green tiles generated.

I know, my 3 AP idea is one of the first posts down on the first page, including only generating 3 green tiles as well. Raising his AP cost and his generation count is the problem, not the damage.

Current: 2 AP for 5 green. Every 12 AP = 30 green generated.
My proposal: 3 AP for 5 green. Every 12 AP = 20 green. 33.3% nerf.
Your stupid proposal: 3 AP for 3 green. Every 12 AP = 12 green generated. 60% nerf. Congratulations you made ragnarok worse than thor.

Unknown

Ranzera wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

The people that either worked hard or paid for their rags don't want him completely changed. Altering numbers is the only way about it. 3 AP instead of 2AP is a FIFTY PERCENT NERF. That isn't enough for you?

You need to understand that generating 5 green tiles with a whopping 2 AP is the problem, nothing else. You could have a 2000 HP Ragnarok that only does 200 damage and he would still be overpowered. You're trying to nerf Ragnarok himself rather than his main problem that actually needs nerfing, his low cost red power, which generates 5 green tiles.

Changing the cost does change the number of green tiles he makes. I can't clearly tell which side of the argument you are on but you can read my post above if you'd like to know the ramifications of changing the 5th upgrade from -1 AP to + 25% damage.

I agree with the -1 AP to 25% damage idea, which would also decrease the amount of green tiles generated, but I believe he would still be a bit too strong with generating 5 green tiles. Take Thor, for example with his 6 red AP cost to generate 5 yellow tiles. If I have 12 red AP, I could use it twice, resulting in generating 10 yellow tiles. I am almost guaranteed a match 4 yellow without even moving a tile, and could even sometimes make a match 5 to generate a critical tile plus an extra turn. If Ragnarok was only nerfed to +1 AP cost instead, that would mean he could add 20 green tiles to the board with 12 red AP, making a ton of match 3,4, and 5 green tiles, not counting the amount of other AP he would get from clearing a row with a match 4 and critical tiles with match 5's. How is adding +1 AP cost a good nerf if he is pretty much exactly the same, just a tiny less god like?

Unknown

A 33% reduction in green tiles sounds like alot but once again, it's all about Classic Storm. All you need is enough for that initial trigger. From then on it ramps up because you're already seeding the board with green and when you have around 20 green, you create a situation where Storm has more green than she ever needs. And this is before considering the additional green you generate matching any convenient 5 matches. Once you get going you almost always have 30 green to clear the board and get more ap for whatever other abilities you might want to use.

The more I think about it, the more I think that it either has to be 4ap cost or generate 3-4 green tiles. 3 ap for 5 green tiles just means I will bring more boosts. Not a huge cost to have an always win while taking minimal damage situation.

I strongly suggest that anyone who hasn't tried it do so. You'll either see there's a huge problem or have a lot of fun dominating every team you face. Either way, you'd have to be pretty naive to not realize that a change will eventually happen.

My concern is that devs make a small initial change like raising it to 3ap then realize it doesn't help much which results in a further change like reducing green tiles generated to 3. Still a decent ability, but overkill in my opinion.