Tony_Foot said: This has been the hardest year as a hoarder as even I have struggled to find reason to break on one poor release after another.
Bad said:You will always be finding reasons to unhoard, sadly.
entrailbucket said: HoundofShadow said: The reason why 2018 was chosen is because in the first years of many games, changes are made frequently. It's logical because the metric and data that dev relies on in the first few years largely come from players' feedbacks. Over time, they would have gathered large amount of data/metric, refined and tweaked those metrics, and fewer changes are expected because things more or less stabilise. In terms of no of nerf, if we compare the first 4 years of nerfs to the last 4 years of nerfs, I believe there are more nerfs from 2014-2017 compared to 2018 to 2021. Players who play from 2014 can verify if what I said is accurate.Since I only started playing in late 2017, I can't break down the entire meta set and I will limit it to only 5* meta play. The first 5* was created in September 2015. In late 2017, the meta was 3* and 5* Gambit. Timeline of 5* meta from late 2017 to 2021, based on imperfect memory:Late 2017Gambit reigns lasted from October 2017 to July 2018 - 9 months reign. Archangel was the first counter release in December 2017 and Cap (IW) was the second counter released in April 2018. Gambit was finally nerfed in July 2018. Because Gambit received strong feedbacks, that probably explains why a counter was also released 2 months later. The next counter happened 4 months later. I think Thor was also part of the Gambit meta later but I can't be sure2018Okoye was released in May 2018 and Kitty in September 2018. After Gambit was nerfed, the meta shifted to more Thorokoye: an offensive glass cannon that doesn't need a counter. The only thing wrong with this meta is that they made pvps boring. I think Hela (released April 2019) was the first 5* to directly counter this meta a little because Thor operates at <50% health and she punishes opponents for having 10 or more green aps.Kitty pops up in September 2018 to create another meta with R4G but she didn't have an edge over Okoye. So, essentially we have 1 + 2 metas. Players were looking for counters but SM(BiB) was already a counter. I think 4* players were more unhappy with Kitty, rather than 5* players since they have Okoye to true heal.Bishop popped in November 2018 and became a 5* meta, who unintentionally killed these two metas but requires a lot of healthpacks.2019Bishop continues his reign of terror until his nerf in September 2020. This is probably the longest reign a controversial "meta" has achieved. Bishop managed to bring out the difference in thinking or grievances between non-5* and 5* players.Non-5* players: Bishop allows them to punch up and they are sick of getting steamrolled by 5* players in pvps. With Bishop, 5* players are afraid of beating them.5* players: they are getting punished for making match-3 and getting stunlocked by Bishop. Bishop made all 5* useless.Meanwhile, Professor X (August released), Worthy Cap (September) and BRB (December released) were released. I often see Professor X paired with America Chavez. I think some players were using him to counter Bishop with success. Then Hawkeye/Worthy Cap meta was created. I think Bishop and Worthy Cap were called the Stunner Bros.2020BRB/Bishop and Hawkeye/Worthy Cap were the common pairs until The Hulk (Immortal) was released on 26 March. I can't remember if Hulkoye was killing these two teams before their nerfs.Then, on 7 May, Apocalypse (Classic) was released with immunity to stun. I can't remember who was paired with Apocalypse often. Probably Kitty or Thor.After Stunner Bros were nerfed, iHulkoye and Kitty BRB reigned supreme in pvps. At this point of time, we have these two as our core metas. This is where 5* meta really have a rock/scissor/paper.Kitty/BRB was eaten by Apocalypse/Thor, who was eaten by iHulkoye, who was eaten by Kitty/BRB.2021Wanda was created in April and killed iHulkoye. She and Colossus formed a new defensive meta until Ultron and Gamora arrives in September/October to counter them. During these six months, Apocalypse + Wanda/Colossus were probably the fastest counters to Wanda/Colossus, before 5* boost week kicks in.With the exception of Bishop , completely dominant 5* meta rarely last more than 1 year. I suppose they were busy with Shards/Mighty Tokens project from late 2019 to mid 2020 and didn't focus too much on Stunner Bros. After they were more or less done with shards, they focused on Stunner Bros.I don't compete for T1 in pvps because I'm not interested in Line coordination and I don't have time to shield hop frequently. Besides, you don't need to be T1 in pvps to know who the meta are. Once you cross 1000-1200 points, the metas show up. And those extensive knowledge comes from experiences of other players who share them in the forum. Also, those top players who lock themselves in Line will come back and post in the forums when they have beefs with the developers. So, that's where you see things from the really top players' experiences. Your recollections of the metagame over these years are completely different from mine. I was playing at a very high level during that time, and I remember exactly what was being used. I've been a 5* player literally since 5* existed. You're reconstructing a meta that you were not a part of based on forum posts and guesswork. Some of the teams you cite were never used at all, or were never a significant share of the metagame. Almost nothing of what you wrote matches up with the highly specific timing of the cycle of releases and counters that you constructed, again via guesswork, in the previous post.Going back to your previous point, no, it is not at all clear or easy to deduce their plans for countering characters or changing the metagame.
HoundofShadow said: The reason why 2018 was chosen is because in the first years of many games, changes are made frequently. It's logical because the metric and data that dev relies on in the first few years largely come from players' feedbacks. Over time, they would have gathered large amount of data/metric, refined and tweaked those metrics, and fewer changes are expected because things more or less stabilise. In terms of no of nerf, if we compare the first 4 years of nerfs to the last 4 years of nerfs, I believe there are more nerfs from 2014-2017 compared to 2018 to 2021. Players who play from 2014 can verify if what I said is accurate.Since I only started playing in late 2017, I can't break down the entire meta set and I will limit it to only 5* meta play. The first 5* was created in September 2015. In late 2017, the meta was 3* and 5* Gambit. Timeline of 5* meta from late 2017 to 2021, based on imperfect memory:Late 2017Gambit reigns lasted from October 2017 to July 2018 - 9 months reign. Archangel was the first counter release in December 2017 and Cap (IW) was the second counter released in April 2018. Gambit was finally nerfed in July 2018. Because Gambit received strong feedbacks, that probably explains why a counter was also released 2 months later. The next counter happened 4 months later. I think Thor was also part of the Gambit meta later but I can't be sure2018Okoye was released in May 2018 and Kitty in September 2018. After Gambit was nerfed, the meta shifted to more Thorokoye: an offensive glass cannon that doesn't need a counter. The only thing wrong with this meta is that they made pvps boring. I think Hela (released April 2019) was the first 5* to directly counter this meta a little because Thor operates at <50% health and she punishes opponents for having 10 or more green aps.Kitty pops up in September 2018 to create another meta with R4G but she didn't have an edge over Okoye. So, essentially we have 1 + 2 metas. Players were looking for counters but SM(BiB) was already a counter. I think 4* players were more unhappy with Kitty, rather than 5* players since they have Okoye to true heal.Bishop popped in November 2018 and became a 5* meta, who unintentionally killed these two metas but requires a lot of healthpacks.2019Bishop continues his reign of terror until his nerf in September 2020. This is probably the longest reign a controversial "meta" has achieved. Bishop managed to bring out the difference in thinking or grievances between non-5* and 5* players.Non-5* players: Bishop allows them to punch up and they are sick of getting steamrolled by 5* players in pvps. With Bishop, 5* players are afraid of beating them.5* players: they are getting punished for making match-3 and getting stunlocked by Bishop. Bishop made all 5* useless.Meanwhile, Professor X (August released), Worthy Cap (September) and BRB (December released) were released. I often see Professor X paired with America Chavez. I think some players were using him to counter Bishop with success. Then Hawkeye/Worthy Cap meta was created. I think Bishop and Worthy Cap were called the Stunner Bros.2020BRB/Bishop and Hawkeye/Worthy Cap were the common pairs until The Hulk (Immortal) was released on 26 March. I can't remember if Hulkoye was killing these two teams before their nerfs.Then, on 7 May, Apocalypse (Classic) was released with immunity to stun. I can't remember who was paired with Apocalypse often. Probably Kitty or Thor.After Stunner Bros were nerfed, iHulkoye and Kitty BRB reigned supreme in pvps. At this point of time, we have these two as our core metas. This is where 5* meta really have a rock/scissor/paper.Kitty/BRB was eaten by Apocalypse/Thor, who was eaten by iHulkoye, who was eaten by Kitty/BRB.2021Wanda was created in April and killed iHulkoye. She and Colossus formed a new defensive meta until Ultron and Gamora arrives in September/October to counter them. During these six months, Apocalypse + Wanda/Colossus were probably the fastest counters to Wanda/Colossus, before 5* boost week kicks in.With the exception of Bishop , completely dominant 5* meta rarely last more than 1 year. I suppose they were busy with Shards/Mighty Tokens project from late 2019 to mid 2020 and didn't focus too much on Stunner Bros. After they were more or less done with shards, they focused on Stunner Bros.I don't compete for T1 in pvps because I'm not interested in Line coordination and I don't have time to shield hop frequently. Besides, you don't need to be T1 in pvps to know who the meta are. Once you cross 1000-1200 points, the metas show up. And those extensive knowledge comes from experiences of other players who share them in the forum. Also, those top players who lock themselves in Line will come back and post in the forums when they have beefs with the developers. So, that's where you see things from the really top players' experiences.
HoundofShadow said: I'm curious, how does the late 2017 to 2021 meta look like for you if it's not what I and some other experienced? Also, more importantly, what mmr level are you using? As for datamined info, those info aren't made public because it's not official for release. Players who consume such info run a risk of getting upset or angry. It also proves that the developer do re-balances from time to time before character releases. Unfortunately, players who read such info frame such changes that they don't like as "nerf".Anyway, those who have champed GR, please do a review over the weekend to share with players how the new GR compares to the old GR.
dianetics said: How would you realistically counter okoye?
dianetics said: I don’t mean how do you defeat her. What would be a character implementation would put your opponent at risk like 5witch did to ihulk.if okoye is the central star of 2 top tier meta teams that dominate all of 550 play as entrail suggests then she would be the character that needs a counter to reduce her effectiveness.** edit Onslaught doesn’t do it. He’s been out too long and the proc is too conditionary
Bad said: To be fair the only hard counter released is SW.Gamora needs to collect 7 yellow and to protect her repeater: on defense that it's nothing. And still that won't protect her from the thorn- whipp repply from SW, except it she gets stunned.Ihulk getting crushed is an indirect way for okoye being crushed too on pvp as there is no better defensive and ofensive partner for her.
entrailbucket said:. Right, so...WHY? Why release one super hard crushing counter to one meta character, and then stop? This reflects something they've never, ever done before. Is it something they're trying to do more often? Is it an alternative to making changes to Hulk? Why can't we just know this stuff?Maybe some people aren't interested in the whys, and that's ok. What harm is there in briefly telling the rest of us what their strategy is? Can we expect more of these counters? How might they choose who gets countered? Are they satisfied with how the new strategy is working?