Mayo said: HoundofShadow said: So, any player who have 550 characters are exploiting the system? The dev didn't mentioned that players are not allowed to 550 characters until a certain time period has passed. You took time to develop good rosters, and those 550 players took years of hoarding to get good rosters of their own. Since Okoye is a meta character; naturally, those competitive players or players influenced by Okoye's strength want to level her as high as possible.Anyway, let's assume Okoye got nerfed. It's indisputable that Apocalypse will be the next in line to take the throne. Do you know:1) IHulk and Apocalypse were in the same LT Store together?2) what the stat of 550 Apocalypse looks like, or even 550 IHulk?Here are their statsApocalypse550, 3/5/5 build, HP: 185, 516Match damage: 1898/1687/1476Black: 20579 * 4Red: 8864 * 4Yellow: +18996Immortal Hulk550,5/3/5, HP: 86,510Match damage: 1852/1646/1441Green: 11866 AoE + 3704 tile damageRed: 70219Black: 5417 (self), 15757 (ally)Apocalypse has 50% more hp than Okoye. He can easily one shot 2 baby champed 5* characters in PvPs with his black and yellow power. If you see 550 Apocalypse with Ihulk, are you going to ask for his nerf next?My Okoye is 450 and my IHulk is still a long way from being champed. I've taken on IHulkoye teams 30+ levels above my team and with boosts, I can defeat them without luck in a pick 2. Who exactly are you using to beat iHulkoye levels? I think you are naive with your argument or are trying to cover the sun with a finger.As i could explain my 14 years old nephew si he can understand:A player that has an okoye at 550 is not exploiting the system, probably has a few other characters at that level and if okoye dissappears, is nerfed or limited they will not really care.A player that has a baby or unchamped i hulk and okoye 50+ lvls is exploiting the system, evenmore it is its only high level character.I mirror match to tackle an oponent team, it is a high expense on resources which is not worth it, and if i buy coins to sustain this exploit i am part of the problem. So no more purchases and skip that team is my way now. Going for the wins is more cost effective atm.Following on your example if okoye did not exist no matter how much health has apoc, in most pick two if he gets stunned in the first 3 turns he is worthless. Also apoc has not been featured as much as okoye in vaults so devs have the chance to learn from experience and minimize apoc stores in the future.Currently seing a lot of those teams in LR, not really see the motivation to play more than the seed nodes for the free cover. Anything else is losing time and resources.It is a waste of me trying to argument when numbers are completely verifiable in any game event, it comes to the devs to do something about it.
HoundofShadow said: So, any player who have 550 characters are exploiting the system? The dev didn't mentioned that players are not allowed to 550 characters until a certain time period has passed. You took time to develop good rosters, and those 550 players took years of hoarding to get good rosters of their own. Since Okoye is a meta character; naturally, those competitive players or players influenced by Okoye's strength want to level her as high as possible.Anyway, let's assume Okoye got nerfed. It's indisputable that Apocalypse will be the next in line to take the throne. Do you know:1) IHulk and Apocalypse were in the same LT Store together?2) what the stat of 550 Apocalypse looks like, or even 550 IHulk?Here are their statsApocalypse550, 3/5/5 build, HP: 185, 516Match damage: 1898/1687/1476Black: 20579 * 4Red: 8864 * 4Yellow: +18996Immortal Hulk550,5/3/5, HP: 86,510Match damage: 1852/1646/1441Green: 11866 AoE + 3704 tile damageRed: 70219Black: 5417 (self), 15757 (ally)Apocalypse has 50% more hp than Okoye. He can easily one shot 2 baby champed 5* characters in PvPs with his black and yellow power. If you see 550 Apocalypse with Ihulk, are you going to ask for his nerf next?My Okoye is 450 and my IHulk is still a long way from being champed. I've taken on IHulkoye teams 30+ levels above my team and with boosts, I can defeat them without luck in a pick 2. Who exactly are you using to beat iHulkoye levels?
HoundofShadow said: I couldn't remember the term cupcakes so I googled it and found this thread.https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/52048/whats-a-cupcake It seems it has already ended in 2016. I joined the game late 2017 and I'm sure win-based was implemented somewhere in 2019?I'm curious why players need to wait for the devs to do something in order for them to use other characters. Strangely, the devs has to give the players incentives for using characters that they don't use.It's weird because those players are the one intiating the request, and yet the dev has to reward them for implementing their request. Can't players simply and consciously make the decision to use other characters, rather than waiting for the dev to force them to use characters they don't use?
ThaRoadWarrior said: HoundofShadow said: [...]I'm curious why players need to wait for the devs to do something in order for them to use other characters. [...] I was playing a few rounds of the Dark Beast pvp the other day with my 7 year old daughter, and she was randomly picking characters she'd heard of or liked the look of scrolling the list. We didn't win a single match because "I want to play all the spider-mans!" wasn't going to work in my 5* MMR. There is limited to no value in losing matches in this game, so if we aren't going to be incentivized to play sub-optimal teams, we probably aren't going to be playing too many sub-optimal teams. (assuming we have the option to do otherwise - if they're all you have, they're all you're playing). DAZ0273said: So what about Thor you might say? It does appear to be double standards on the face of it but he has been "fine" since 2017 so I can't see anything happens this far along. The distinction with Gambattery was that a 0/0/5 Gambit was superior to a fully constructed Gambit as he wouldn't preclude the use of team mate red and purple powers without any covers in them. A 5/0/0 Thor isn't "better" per se, just "good enough." I absolutely prefer my champed Thor to my unchamped thor even without a 13-levels-higher Okoye to go with him.
HoundofShadow said: [...]I'm curious why players need to wait for the devs to do something in order for them to use other characters. [...]
DAZ0273said: So what about Thor you might say? It does appear to be double standards on the face of it but he has been "fine" since 2017 so I can't see anything happens this far along.
ThaRoadWarrior said: The lingo for hardcore PVP play is like joining a secret society lol. Grills, cupcakes, trapcakes...I assume that community spends most of their time on Line but occasionally it bleeds over into the forums and I'm just like "yeah, i'm not about that life but i'm glad y'all are having fun..."
Bad said: jp1 said: Unbelievable that this thread has gained so much traction. I, for one, am against the Tonya Harding approach to competition. I don’t place well in PvP and it is was it is, don’t want mine or anyone else’s toys to be ruined so I can feel or do better.that doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish. Who would be so evil as to ruin a children's toy?Surely a selfish, evil, bad, meanie person that doesnt deserves a thing. Now if that same child is using those toys for to bully and crush his fellow mates, and he knows it, and he wants to do it forever, now that approach changed a bit. The innocent child was not so innocent. Nor the selfish ones were so clear.Its funny because I dont recall so much sentimentalism when it was worthy and bishop. They werent children toys, they were more like the bin ladens of the evil meta.They left pretty crippled Hawkeye, still. I recall some forumers who chased him.The truth is that meta was less health pack abusing than this one.
jp1 said: Unbelievable that this thread has gained so much traction. I, for one, am against the Tonya Harding approach to competition. I don’t place well in PvP and it is was it is, don’t want mine or anyone else’s toys to be ruined so I can feel or do better.that doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish.
LavaManLee said: PVE/PVP show the dichotomy of the game, IMHO. Do I ever run Hulkoye in PVE? Absolutely not. Do I run it in PVP? Every time. Actually, do I ever use iHulk in PVE? Not a chance. I don't know if it's iHulk that needs nerfed, Okoyoe that needs nerfed or neither. All I know is that Hulkoye shows up almost exclusively in my SLC10 PVP once I get over 1000. And that's when I shield. Can't even remember the last time I hit 1200.
fight4thedream said: Why would we see a return of Okoye/Thor in the event that iHulk were nerfed?It's not so much that Okoye/Thor would be the only option for a competitive player but rather it's the best option in terms of:sustainability: if a player has Okoye tanking all her colors you can climb with minimal use of health packsspeed: with iHulk gone, the only team that might be faster would be Apoc/Thor but most competitive players have a higher level Okoye and benefit from her self-healreliability: It's hard to beat Thor's AP generation feeding Okoye's ability to soak up damage and heal it off offensive power: Only Apoc/Thor are comparable
SnowcaTT said: fight4thedream said: Why would we see a return of Okoye/Thor in the event that iHulk were nerfed?It's not so much that Okoye/Thor would be the only option for a competitive player but rather it's the best option in terms of:sustainability: if a player has Okoye tanking all her colors you can climb with minimal use of health packsspeed: with iHulk gone, the only team that might be faster would be Apoc/Thor but most competitive players have a higher level Okoye and benefit from her self-healreliability: It's hard to beat Thor's AP generation feeding Okoye's ability to soak up damage and heal it off offensive power: Only Apoc/Thor are comparable I keep agreeing with this too, and for the reason FFTD put down earlier.So many people have 500+ Okoye....with 475ish as 'next best'. It seems many (and possibly most) players are hoarding and trying to get Okoye as their top character, in lieu of anything/everything else. Many rosters now have Okoye 30-50 levels higher than their next biggest character. Most people with Okoye stacked like that aren't going to switch to 450 [other combos]: they're going to be on huge Okoye + (something else).I understand that many are fine with that (something else), but I also understand that many that are arguing for that also have the "but don't you dare touch my Okoye, I need fatty for PVE!" argument right behind their "nerf iHulk for PVP!" argument.Okoye was a powerhouse before, will be a powerhouse again, and all future characters have to be designed with her in mind if she isn't the one 'fixed'. You can't have 3-5 casting cost offensive abilities with Okoye boosting them.Folks keep clamoring for an ihulk nerf....but there wasn't this giant push two months ago. And I can point to the reason why. People didn't 'suddenly' get iHulk covers, they didn't get him fatter, they didn't encounter more higher floaters because of bigger, fatter hulks. People weren't, and aren't from what I hear, hoarding for "big iHulk".Folks 'suddenly' have to chew through mammoth Okoyes to get to iHulk. If anything needs to be 'fixed' with iHulk, it is that 450's are essentially equal to 550's - you have to get rid of everything else first in either case.The 'problem' is that so many people have really, really big Okoye: and they keep getting bigger, and there keeps being more. And getting rid of Hulk won't solve that problem. This thread is called "Okoye everywhere" - and nerfing any other character will not solve that issue.
SnowcaTT said: LavaManLee said: PVE/PVP show the dichotomy of the game, IMHO. Do I ever run Hulkoye in PVE? Absolutely not. Do I run it in PVP? Every time. Actually, do I ever use iHulk in PVE? Not a chance. I don't know if it's iHulk that needs nerfed, Okoyoe that needs nerfed or neither. All I know is that Hulkoye shows up almost exclusively in my SLC10 PVP once I get over 1000. And that's when I shield. Can't even remember the last time I hit 1200. I'd go so far as to say it's probably the one you have as the biggest character (or are working towards that goal).
Dogface said: SnowcaTT said: fight4thedream said: Why would we see a return of Okoye/Thor in the event that iHulk were nerfed?It's not so much that Okoye/Thor would be the only option for a competitive player but rather it's the best option in terms of:sustainability: if a player has Okoye tanking all her colors you can climb with minimal use of health packsspeed: with iHulk gone, the only team that might be faster would be Apoc/Thor but most competitive players have a higher level Okoye and benefit from her self-healreliability: It's hard to beat Thor's AP generation feeding Okoye's ability to soak up damage and heal it off offensive power: Only Apoc/Thor are comparable I keep agreeing with this too, and for the reason FFTD put down earlier.So many people have 500+ Okoye....with 475ish as 'next best'. It seems many (and possibly most) players are hoarding and trying to get Okoye as their top character, in lieu of anything/everything else. Many rosters now have Okoye 30-50 levels higher than their next biggest character. Most people with Okoye stacked like that aren't going to switch to 450 [other combos]: they're going to be on huge Okoye + (something else).I understand that many are fine with that (something else), but I also understand that many that are arguing for that also have the "but don't you dare touch my Okoye, I need fatty for PVE!" argument right behind their "nerf iHulk for PVP!" argument.Okoye was a powerhouse before, will be a powerhouse again, and all future characters have to be designed with her in mind if she isn't the one 'fixed'. You can't have 3-5 casting cost offensive abilities with Okoye boosting them.Folks keep clamoring for an ihulk nerf....but there wasn't this giant push two months ago. And I can point to the reason why. People didn't 'suddenly' get iHulk covers, they didn't get him fatter, they didn't encounter more higher floaters because of bigger, fatter hulks. People weren't, and aren't from what I hear, hoarding for "big iHulk".Folks 'suddenly' have to chew through mammoth Okoyes to get to iHulk. If anything needs to be 'fixed' with iHulk, it is that 450's are essentially equal to 550's - you have to get rid of everything else first in either case.The 'problem' is that so many people have really, really big Okoye: and they keep getting bigger, and there keeps being more. And getting rid of Hulk won't solve that problem. This thread is called "Okoye everywhere" - and nerfing any other character will not solve that issue. Eh, remind me again. What level is your Okoye and what level your iHulk?
Daredevil217 said: Fight,it’s clear you and I are missing each other. You are talking about the highest level of play where the top 1% live (550 play), and I’m indeed talking about the characters at relatively even levels (Okoye is my highest level character as well given the number of stores shes been in and the incentive given to chase her. But I don’t have her 50 levels over everyone else). I know for me and what I saw, Thorkoye ended once Gritty became a thing. Then the other metas were ushered in. and Okoye never made a return. Even after the stunner nerf I did not see a miraculous return to Okoye. As an aside I only campaigned to nerf Bish. NOT Cap. I repeatedly said he was fine. I would take a Cap nerf if it was the only way to murder Bishop (which was what happened) but I never called for his head. Cap in my mind was fine. I believe Bish was the only character in the history of this game that I was all in on nerfing. And I’d do it all over again. Even with Apoc I still struggled to beat him due to the AP gen, or I would win but his clap back would mean more healthpacks than when I fight Hulkoye currently. So I get your feelings may be hurt that Bish was cut off at the knees, but I have zero regrets.Back on topic- As I said, once the Bishop meta was gone, I did NOT see a return to Thorkoye. I saw BRBitty everywhere because Thorkoye at the same level was a liability and an instant target. Interesting that this wasn’t the case at your level of play. But I have a strong suspicion that in time, Okoye would have gone the way of the dinosaur the same way she had in lower tiers of play. As people leveled up their kitties and BRBs and Apocs and Professors to 550; they would have been “the power” in MPQ.Bottom line, I play at a tier where the cost of entry is lower, so most people have access to more/most characters. Those who play regularly; especially those who skip **** releases can collect all the meta options fairly easily (especially with how infrequent we actually get great characters). What this means is the level I play at, the truly best characters rise to the top, and not just “well this is my only 550 so I have to use her”. My hypothesis then is as those characters get entered into more special stores (I believe BRB had only one and it was awful? Apoc had one maybe two?) and people have more (read: better) options, then running Okoye would be a liability just like she was at my level before never die. And yes, Thorkoye was my favorite meta ever, so I’m a bit jealous that while I was slogging through an endless sea of stupid soul sucking BRBitty matches draining the life force out of me once the stunners got nerfed, you were met with an endless sea of the easiest opponents ever.
HoundofShadow said: This is my MMR after hitting 1081, with about 10hours 28mins left in the PvP. All my champed 5* are level 45X. I have skipped 30 times and I'm presented with 9 unique opponents, and only 2 of them are iHulkoye teams.https://streamable.com/syhyn8