Okoye everywhere

fight4thedream

Daredevil217 said:

The last two posts are disingenuous at best. I don’t see this idea of nerf Hulk and we “go back to Okoye/Thor meta” being remotely true. The meta had passed them by ever since Gritty became a thing. Once defensively strong teams like Gritty, Bishop/whoever, HammerHawk, BRBitty, Profslaught, BRB/Apoc, and some Carbage based teams came along, Thorkoye became a play at your own risk pairing. Okoye remained awesome in offense only PVE, so people who spent large sums on her we’re still getting their money’s worth.  But in PVP even at 550, she was a joke compared to other shiner defensive pairs and quite frankly was a liability. IHulk is the one who changed all that. Nerfing him might mean going back to BRBitty, or Profslaught becoming more of a meta staple, but you can’t convince me Okoye remains queen in PVP without Hulk. 

tonypq said:

Ihulk isn't going to be the last character to make a super strong combo with Okoye. Whether some other character has passive damage, cheap actives, or used with a third wheel character who can reduce ability cost, greatly accelerate attack power generation etc. The way WF works with no ramp up time or boost limit, there are likely going to be more juiced up team combos to come. 

I can name several examples of characters who do these things that exist in the game right now. We don’t have to wait for some future release. And guess what? You’re right. They all pair great with Okoye! And if you nerf Hulk, guess what? Not ONE of those pairs will be meta!  Okoye is an offense only character period. Which means that normally is a liability to play in half the game. So why isn’t this the case right now? Her partner in crime can’t die and his passive pretty much has to do nothing in order to proc every turn. Point blank. Okoye isn’t this PVP terror you all think she is without Hulk. The meta had already passed her by but the addition of NeverDie to the game is the only reason she’s relevant. 

Woah there partner, I can't speak for tonypq, but I would appreciate it if you read my post more carefully. I am talking specifically about high end PvP play. You're totally ignoring the fact that most high end players have 500 + Okoye character and you expect me to believe they are going to put Okoye on the bench for characters they more than likely don't have at a high level? 

Additionally, two of the teams you mentioned, specifically Bishop and HammerHawk, are out of commission and if I remember correctly you were quite vocal about having nerfed. Had they not been nerfed, the meta would have been undoubtedly more interesting and varied than it is now. BRB/Kitty teams are easily dealt with by Thor/Okoye by simply bringing a 3* Loki TU and can now be even countered with Thor/Apoc which I did name drop.  I will admit Apoc/Beta would definitely see more play and it is a shame it sits right outside of the current meta. 

While I respect your vast knowledge of various characters and your enthusiasm for champing and trying out various combinations, as far as I am aware you are not a high end competitive player.  Obviously things would be different for casual players but casual players aren't really trying to use meta characters every match.  

I do find it funny that you are trying to argue Okoye and Thor wouldn't be meta when your own Character Ranking and Analysis lists them currently at #1 and #2. So who's being disingenuous here? 

Borstock

Daredevil217 said:

I don’t see this idea of nerf Hulk and we “go back to Okoye/Thor meta” being remotely true. The meta had passed them by ever since Gritty became a thing. Once defensively strong teams like Gritty, Bishop/whoever, HammerHawk, BRBitty, Profslaught, BRB/Apoc, and some Carbage based teams came along, Thorkoye became a play at your own risk pairing. Okoye remained awesome in offense only PVE, so people who spent large sums on her we’re still getting their money’s worth.  But in PVP even at 550, she was a joke compared to other shiner defensive pairs and quite frankly was a liability. IHulk is the one who changed all that. Nerfing him might mean going back to BRBitty, or Profslaught becoming more of a meta staple, but you can’t convince me Okoye remains queen in PVP without Hulk. 

I totally agree. Okoye will largely disappear in PvP without Hulk, at least with the characters we have to work with at the moment. The only places you'll still see her is on teams where she's at 550 where the player doesn't want to feel like they wasted their time max-champing her. And every one of those teams will be easy to beat.

Bad

Okoye is a  character that provides curious analysis on the most analyzing players:
-Okoye by herself is bad on defense. Obvious. What did you expect from a very classical character? What it would be amazing it would be the opposite. By the fact kitty is showing the signs of the age and she is easier to kill by the newers 5*. Of course they are more easy to deal in defense.  And more easy they will be next year.

-I need to equip all boosts. Nice. But why? Because they are too fast and the player wont have the time to beat them if they dont start with a good amount of resources beforehand. Is that a normal meta, to equip and wasting resources like the player was facing the worst hellish nightmare?
Of course not.
Even more this game it doesnt provides that information and personally I noticed it arguing in okoye threads: a boost to 2 colours can be +2. Then I noticed by miself a boost to powers can be up to 50%.
Now I know all that and it is useful to me for to adapt to a meta where I need to heavy punch a lot more above my capacity for to be able to win matches before ihulks stalkers hit me down to the ground.

-It would be needed to have separate MMR because of them. Why? They are just a team like anyone else. They appear above 900 points. Of course. Because they are waiting for to hit the most points team and they can do it more fast than any team. 

Is it normal all that? Of course not. 

Phumade

Bad said:

Is that a normal meta, to equip and wasting resources like the player was facing the worst hellish nightmare?

 at the top 5% tier yes.   Especially since the spicy tokens have largely made the +3 boost  a free resource.

It’s pretty routine to boost for speed in pve and pvp.  You should ask around on peoples milestone profile.   The number of boosts, tu, hp used is pretty shocking.  I’m a stingy player by nature,  but I routinely run two ap boosts and carry a resurrection cap tu.

Daredevil217

fight4thedream said:

Daredevil217 said:

The last two posts are disingenuous at best. I don’t see this idea of nerf Hulk and we “go back to Okoye/Thor meta” being remotely true. The meta had passed them by ever since Gritty became a thing. Once defensively strong teams like Gritty, Bishop/whoever, HammerHawk, BRBitty, Profslaught, BRB/Apoc, and some Carbage based teams came along, Thorkoye became a play at your own risk pairing. Okoye remained awesome in offense only PVE, so people who spent large sums on her we’re still getting their money’s worth.  But in PVP even at 550, she was a joke compared to other shiner defensive pairs and quite frankly was a liability. IHulk is the one who changed all that. Nerfing him might mean going back to BRBitty, or Profslaught becoming more of a meta staple, but you can’t convince me Okoye remains queen in PVP without Hulk. 

tonypq said:

Ihulk isn't going to be the last character to make a super strong combo with Okoye. Whether some other character has passive damage, cheap actives, or used with a third wheel character who can reduce ability cost, greatly accelerate attack power generation etc. The way WF works with no ramp up time or boost limit, there are likely going to be more juiced up team combos to come. 

I can name several examples of characters who do these things that exist in the game right now. We don’t have to wait for some future release. And guess what? You’re right. They all pair great with Okoye! And if you nerf Hulk, guess what? Not ONE of those pairs will be meta!  Okoye is an offense only character period. Which means that normally is a liability to play in half the game. So why isn’t this the case right now? Her partner in crime can’t die and his passive pretty much has to do nothing in order to proc every turn. Point blank. Okoye isn’t this PVP terror you all think she is without Hulk. The meta had already passed her by but the addition of NeverDie to the game is the only reason she’s relevant. 

Woah there partner, I can't speak for tonypq, but I would appreciate it if you read my post more carefully. I am talking specifically about high end PvP play. You're totally ignoring the fact that most high end players have 500 + Okoye character and you expect me to believe they are going to put Okoye on the bench for characters they more than likely don't have at a high level? 

Additionally, two of the teams you mentioned, specifically Bishop and HammerHawk, are out of commission and if I remember correctly you were quite vocal about having nerfed. Had they not been nerfed, the meta would have been undoubtedly more interesting and varied than it is now. BRB/Kitty teams are easily dealt with by Thor/Okoye by simply bringing a 3* Loki TU and can now be even countered with Thor/Apoc which I did name drop.  I will admit Apoc/Beta would definitely see more play and it is a shame it sits right outside of the current meta. 

While I respect your vast knowledge of various characters and your enthusiasm for champing and trying out various combinations, as far as I am aware you are not a high end competitive player.  Obviously things would be different for casual players but casual players aren't really trying to use meta characters every match.  

I do find it funny that you are trying to argue Okoye and Thor wouldn't be meta when your own Character Ranking and Analysis lists them currently at #1 and #2. So who's being disingenuous here? 

Seems I struck a nerve? If it wasn’t clear, I’m operating on the assumption that people have more than one option. If a person’s only 550 is Okoye, sure they’ll probably use her with other partners. And she’ll be a target to those with better (more meta) options.

As you so eloquently pointed out, I’m a “small fish” and even I don’t struggle with high level Okoye sans Hulk. So my guess is other 550 folks who have Professor, Onslaught, Apoc, Beta, Kitty, Carnage, etc. will opt to use them because they are flat out better defensively. I imagine the only reason why one would still use Okoye would be because they invested solely in her (or they just play for wins/fun and only care about offense). And they will probably target every Okoye they can find with Hulk out of the picture. I mean, of course I could be wrong.  I know at my level (everyone champed, all options available) Thorkoye fell out of the meta. Was everyone still running Thorkoye the way IHulk is dominating now once the above-named characters were released and maxed out?

Oh, and if you want to know why Okoye is ranked number one, all you have to do is read. I thought I spelled it out pretty clearly. Okoye is a PVE staple where offense is the only thing that matters. She’s also, thanks to Immortal Hulk clogging all the PVE queues as well (well... mine. Maybe it’s different at your level of play).  Her presence in both areas of the game make her clearly the best character. 

SnowcaTT

Phumade said:

at the top 5% tier yes.   Especially since the spicy tokens have largely made the +3 boost  a free resource.

Do tell me more about this +3 boost

Phumade

SnowcaTT said:

Phumade said:

at the top 5% tier yes.   Especially since the spicy tokens have largely made the +3 boost  a free resource.

Do tell me more about this +3 boost

Oh I hoard my spicy tokens.  Those vaults are so slow to open one by one.  So I horde my spicy tokens and open them when I need to top off the ap resources.

hopefully that not considered an exploit.

# pleasedontReport

Bad

Phumade said:

 at the top 5% tier yes.   

You answered it by yourself. But Im not on the 5% top tier. I can rank t50 on pvp if it is not too much populated.
And months ago I didnt had to use such tactics.

Phumade

Bad said:

Phumade said:

 at the top 5% tier yes.   

You answered it by yourself. But Im not on the 5% top tier. I can rank t50 on pvp if it is not too much populated.
And months ago I didnt had to use such tactics.

Sounds like your achieving the results that’s your effort warrants.  

In any case, The game really does get harder, more expensive and time consuming the higher you go. 

LavaManLee

PVE/PVP show the dichotomy of the game, IMHO.  Do I ever run Hulkoye in PVE?  Absolutely not.  Do I run it in PVP?  Every time.  Actually, do I ever use iHulk in PVE?  Not a chance.  I don't know if it's iHulk that needs nerfed, Okoyoe that needs nerfed or neither.  All I know is that Hulkoye shows up almost exclusively in my SLC10 PVP once I get over 1000.  And that's when I shield.  Can't even remember the last time I hit 1200.

Mayo

HoundofShadow said:

So, any player who have 550 characters are exploiting the system? The dev didn't mentioned that players are not allowed to 550 characters until a certain time period has passed. You took time to develop good rosters, and those 550 players took years of hoarding to get good rosters of their own. 

Since Okoye is a meta character; naturally, those competitive players or players influenced by Okoye's strength want to level her as high as possible.

Anyway, let's assume Okoye got nerfed. It's indisputable that Apocalypse will be the next in line to take the throne. Do you know:

1) IHulk and Apocalypse were in the same LT Store together?
2) what the stat of 550 Apocalypse looks like, or even 550 IHulk?


Here are their stats

Apocalypse

550, 3/5/5 build, HP: 185, 516

Match damage: 1898/1687/1476

Black: 20579 * 4

Red: 8864 * 4

Yellow: +18996

Immortal Hulk

550,5/3/5, HP: 86,510

Match damage: 1852/1646/1441

Green: 11866 AoE + 3704 tile damage

Red: 70219

Black: 5417 (self), 15757 (ally)

Apocalypse has 50% more hp than Okoye. He can easily one shot 2 baby champed 5* characters in PvPs with his black and yellow power. If you see 550 Apocalypse with Ihulk, are you going to ask for his nerf next?

My Okoye is 450 and my IHulk is still a long way from being champed.  I've taken on IHulkoye teams 30+ levels above my team and with boosts, I can defeat them without luck in a pick 2. Who exactly are you using to beat iHulkoye levels? 

I think you are naive with your argument or are trying to cover the sun with a finger.

As i could explain my 14 years old nephew si he can understand:

A player that has an okoye at 550 is not exploiting the system, probably has a few other characters at that level and if okoye dissappears, is nerfed or limited they will not really care.

A player that has a baby or unchamped i hulk and okoye 50+ lvls is exploiting the system, evenmore it is its only high level character.

I mirror match to tackle an oponent team, it is a high expense on resources which is not worth it, and if i buy coins to sustain this exploit i am part of the problem. So no more purchases and skip that team is my way now. Going for the wins is more cost effective atm.

Following on your example if okoye did not exist no matter how much health has apoc, in most pick two if he gets stunned in the first 3 turns he is worthless. Also apoc has not been featured as much as okoye in vaults so devs have the chance to learn from experience and minimize apoc stores in the future.

Currently seing a lot of those teams in LR, not really see the motivation to play more than the seed nodes for the free cover. Anything else is losing time and resources.

It is a waste of me trying to argument when numbers are completely verifiable in any game event, it comes to the devs to do something about it. 

Phumade

Mayo said:

A player that has an okoye at 550 is not exploiting the system, probably has a few other characters at that level and if okoye dissappears, is nerfed or limited they will not really care.

The thing is those players all remember OML and Gambit and all the associated dev promises.  So “adjustments” to 5* chars are the single most scrutinized change in the game.

Adjustments to MMR, event or reward redesign are far far far more preferable changes than seeing chars adjusted down.

Kolence

Phumade said:

Mayo said:

A player that has an okoye at 550 is not exploiting the system, probably has a few other characters at that level and if okoye dissappears, is nerfed or limited they will not really care.

The thing is those players all remember OML and Gambit and all the associated dev promises.  So “adjustments” to 5* chars are the single most scrutinized change in the game.

Adjustments to MMR, event or reward redesign are far far far more preferable changes than seeing chars adjusted down.

Have devs really promised anything about OML or Gambit, ever? 

HoundofShadow

To Mayo, it's getting clearer what's going with your PvP losses. So, these are your top 5 characters:

My highest level 5*s are profx, apoc, brb, okoye, onslaught, kitty and ged between lvl 470 and lvl 465. 

However, when you are fighting against iHulkoye(500+), you are using iHulkoye against them.  You have Britty, which is a very reliable counter, but you chose not to use them. It seems like you'd have avoided most of these losses by using Britty. That clearly explains why fighting against iHulkoye is all about luck for you. Because you were using the wrong counter.

I mirror match to tackle an oponent team, it is a high expense on resources which is not worth it, and if i buy coins to sustain this exploit i am part of the problem. 

Even without iHulk, some players will still level up Okoye as high as possible. You call half health Thor a minor exploit and players with Okoye 50 levels higher than IHulk exploiting the system. My impression is if it's easy to beat without much resources, it's not really an exploit (Thorokoye), if not, it's an exploit(iHulkoye). 

I find it unlikely Okoye is going to be nerfed. Let's not forget the political side of things going around with Disney/Marvel. Okoye fits perfectly in this picture. 

However, if Okoye is nerfed, Thor must be nerfed along with her.
 

Sekilicious

I don’t know what it’s like in 5* or high 5* star land but in the War of the Realms PvP half my roster is boosted and still I mostly see Polaris comps, haha. All with pretty high point totals. It just started so more people running diverse teams will hopefully start to show up in the queue

Shaydenn

This team is easy to beat if you get the right team in the correct positions. Why worry about how hard it is and just find a way to beat it.  I use kitty, BRB, Nightcrawler and beat that team easily. I actually look for it and get mega points for it. There is a rhythm to that team, but I leave that to you to figure out. No more nerfing. I play slc 10 also.

jp1

Unbelievable that this thread has gained so much traction. I, for one, am against the Tonya Harding approach to competition. I don’t place well in PvP and it is was it is, don’t want mine or anyone else’s toys to be ruined so I can feel or do better.

It may seem novel, but if you want to compete and don’t have the characters necessary or they aren’t high enough level, maybe just keep all your resources until they hit a store and you can grab them and level them up. Of course, do it at your own risk because the next guy might come along and rally for all your hard work and commitment to be ripped right out from under you. Meritocracy is not a highly valued system in MPQ it seems.

Sorry if any of that comes across as harsh or rude, but when will this nonsense stop? Very easy to shake your fists when it won’t completely destroy your own game, that doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish.

For reference, I have all the meta at least baby champed, so losing Okoye or IHulk would be inconvenient but not catastrophic for me. I see plenty of rosters that doesn’t apply to though.

Bad

jp1 said:

Unbelievable that this thread has gained so much traction. I, for one, am against the Tonya Harding approach to competition. I don’t place well in PvP and it is was it is, don’t want mine or anyone else’s toys to be ruined so I can feel or do better.

that doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish.

Who would be so evil as to ruin a children's toy?
Surely a selfish, evil, bad, meanie person that doesnt deserves a thing. 
Now if that same child is using those toys for to bully and crush his fellow mates, and he knows it, and he wants to do it forever, now that approach changed a bit. The innocent child was not so innocent. Nor the selfish ones were so clear.
Its funny because I dont recall so much sentimentalism when it was worthy and bishop. They werent children toys, they were more like the bin ladens of the evil meta.
They left pretty crippled Hawkeye, still. I recall some forumers who chased him.

The truth is that meta was less health pack abusing than this one.

Cannibalqueen

I think we can see they’ve always focused on health pack meta.  And really now, especially with the Spicy Tokens and some of the milestones, they are trying to make AP boosts a bigger part of the experience.  

And it might also be that the recent emphasis on match damage multiplier is an attempt to make damage boosts more relevant again.  

This intentional.  Hulkoye of your own level is pretty usually beatable by Britty.  It helps a lot to get a jump on blue AP.  It’s resource management.

personally I got Okoye at 455 and Hulk at 451.  I hardly use Hulkoye.  Just at the very end of climbs, or the other time, is it’s my go to team for Lightning Rounds when I miss the seed teams. It’s a quick way to just get a 100.

but I would be super bummed if they nerfed Okoye in any way.  She’s a mainstay and a very fun and important part of my daily experience.  I play for wins in Season Sim.  Thorkoye 2099 is my mainstay.  Because it invites retals and it’s just a really super fun team to use.  

These arguments are gonna keep going on, I am sure, but the Devs would be absolutely insane to ever nerf her,  it’s not happening.  Too many people on the non competitive yet obsessive level like me, we use her every day.  Outside Hulkoye. There would be total revolt.

fight4thedream

Daredevil217 said:

fight4thedream said:

Daredevil217 said:

The last two posts are disingenuous at best. I don’t see this idea of nerf Hulk and we “go back to Okoye/Thor meta” being remotely true. The meta had passed them by ever since Gritty became a thing. Once defensively strong teams like Gritty, Bishop/whoever, HammerHawk, BRBitty, Profslaught, BRB/Apoc, and some Carbage based teams came along, Thorkoye became a play at your own risk pairing. Okoye remained awesome in offense only PVE, so people who spent large sums on her we’re still getting their money’s worth.  But in PVP even at 550, she was a joke compared to other shiner defensive pairs and quite frankly was a liability. IHulk is the one who changed all that. Nerfing him might mean going back to BRBitty, or Profslaught becoming more of a meta staple, but you can’t convince me Okoye remains queen in PVP without Hulk. 

tonypq said:

Ihulk isn't going to be the last character to make a super strong combo with Okoye. Whether some other character has passive damage, cheap actives, or used with a third wheel character who can reduce ability cost, greatly accelerate attack power generation etc. The way WF works with no ramp up time or boost limit, there are likely going to be more juiced up team combos to come. 

I can name several examples of characters who do these things that exist in the game right now. We don’t have to wait for some future release. And guess what? You’re right. They all pair great with Okoye! And if you nerf Hulk, guess what? Not ONE of those pairs will be meta!  Okoye is an offense only character period. Which means that normally is a liability to play in half the game. So why isn’t this the case right now? Her partner in crime can’t die and his passive pretty much has to do nothing in order to proc every turn. Point blank. Okoye isn’t this PVP terror you all think she is without Hulk. The meta had already passed her by but the addition of NeverDie to the game is the only reason she’s relevant. 

Woah there partner, I can't speak for tonypq, but I would appreciate it if you read my post more carefully. I am talking specifically about high end PvP play. You're totally ignoring the fact that most high end players have 500 + Okoye character and you expect me to believe they are going to put Okoye on the bench for characters they more than likely don't have at a high level? 

Additionally, two of the teams you mentioned, specifically Bishop and HammerHawk, are out of commission and if I remember correctly you were quite vocal about having nerfed. Had they not been nerfed, the meta would have been undoubtedly more interesting and varied than it is now. BRB/Kitty teams are easily dealt with by Thor/Okoye by simply bringing a 3* Loki TU and can now be even countered with Thor/Apoc which I did name drop.  I will admit Apoc/Beta would definitely see more play and it is a shame it sits right outside of the current meta. 

While I respect your vast knowledge of various characters and your enthusiasm for champing and trying out various combinations, as far as I am aware you are not a high end competitive player.  Obviously things would be different for casual players but casual players aren't really trying to use meta characters every match.  

I do find it funny that you are trying to argue Okoye and Thor wouldn't be meta when your own Character Ranking and Analysis lists them currently at #1 and #2. So who's being disingenuous here? 

Seems I struck a nerve? If it wasn’t clear, I’m operating on the assumption that people have more than one option. If a person’s only 550 is Okoye, sure they’ll probably use her with other partners. And she’ll be a target to those with better (more meta) options.

As you so eloquently pointed out, I’m a “small fish” and even I don’t struggle with high level Okoye sans Hulk. So my guess is other 550 folks who have Professor, Onslaught, Apoc, Beta, Kitty, Carnage, etc. will opt to use them because they are flat out better defensively. I imagine the only reason why one would still use Okoye would be because they invested solely in her (or they just play for wins/fun and only care about offense). And they will probably target every Okoye they can find with Hulk out of the picture. I mean, of course I could be wrong.  I know at my level (everyone champed, all options available) Thorkoye fell out of the meta. Was everyone still running Thorkoye the way IHulk is dominating now once the above-named characters were released and maxed out?

Oh, and if you want to know why Okoye is ranked number one, all you have to do is read. I thought I spelled it out pretty clearly. Okoye is a PVE staple where offense is the only thing that matters. She’s also, thanks to Immortal Hulk clogging all the PVE queues as well (well... mine. Maybe it’s different at your level of play).  Her presence in both areas of the game make her clearly the best character. 

I am perfectly aware that Okoye is the best character in the game. That is the crux of the issue being discussed. 

The question is, in the event that iHulk were nerfed, how that would effect the meta. I and a few others have suggested that we would see a return of a Thor/Okoye meta and you disagreed, arguing that all things being equal there are better defensive alternatives. So let's start from there.

Yes, there are better defensive deterrents, namely BRB/Kitty, BRB/Apocalypse, BRB/Carnage, Onslaught/Prof X, Apocalypse/Onslaught and perhaps a few other variations.  So hypothetically speaking in a non-iHulk meta, a player who had these characters at a high enough level might indeed feel comfortable using them for competitive play. 

But here's the rub: Okoye/Thor is such a strong offensive powerhouse that it makes short work of whatever defensive value these teams have. 

Okoye/Thor vs:

BRB/Kitty: As I mentioned before, bringing a 3* Loki Black TU is good insurance to deal with bad situations when Kitty has buffed BRB protect tiles through the roof. In favorable conditions, a player won't even have to use it to ensure success. Just focus on denying Beta blue while whittling him down and taking him out with a nuke.

BRB/Apocalypse: Indeed a much riskier fight. This is a team I would really like to see take center stage in the meta because the synergy between the two is really beautiful and all around it's an interesting, tense battle. The player will have to figure out which AP to try and deny, under most circumstances I imagine red or black, and all things being equal it's perhaps best to focus on downing Apocalypse first. 1* MBW stun in non-mutant matches for emergency situations, and 3* Loki Black just in case protect tiles get out of hand. While certainly a more difficult fight for Okoye/Thor, I don't think it would be insurmountable. 

BRB/Carnage: In most pick 2 PvP events, I don't see this team being too troublesome for  our offensive champions. Similarly to BRB/Kitty focus on downing Beta first, deny blue and red, and use 3* Loki Black TU if board is filled with protect tiles. 

Onslaught/Prof X: The most RNG pairing of the defensive bunch; things have the potential to go south really quickly with this team but there is also the possibility that not much happens. Under most circumstances, will do some damage but the question is will it be enough. Considering that this should be one of the best teams to counter the current IHulk/Okoye meta and yet it's mostly absent in the current competitive meta, I don't think it does.

Apocalypse/Onslaught: Another strong pairing that most certainly can go toe-to-toe against Okoye/Thor teams but doesn't quite have enough speed or reliability to supplant them. 

The problem is none of these teams offer enough in terms of defensive deterrence to dissuade competitive players who have optimized their rosters to not hit them. Sure, if given a choice a between hitting Okoye/Thor or Apocalypse/BRB team they will more than likely hit the Okoye/Thor team (setting aside the political alliances and friendship between players which is another facet of competitive PVP we are ignoring).  There are two main reasons for this: 1.) Matches against some of these teams tend to be more drawn out, especially matches featuring BRB and Carnage, 2). there is indeed an increased risk of losing. But it's not because a player doesn't feel they can't beat these teams but rather there is an increase in time investment and risk. 

I think it's important to keep in mind that in PvE CL10, where enemy levels go beyond 550, the go to team for many competitive players is still Okoye/Thor (or Okoye/iHulk depending on enemy type). So what good is defensive deterrence against a team that is clearing even more difficult challenges in PvE than is possible in PvP?

This was the whole problem with the Okoye/Thor meta to begin with. The only teams that were able to stop Okoye/Thor teams dead in the their tracks were Bishop/BRB or JJ and Worthy Cap/Hawkeye both of which were nerfed. So your point that Okoye/Thor is easy pickings is moot when Okoye/Thor teams are more than capable of defeating every other team in game. 

Why would we see a return of Okoye/Thor in the event that iHulk were nerfed?

It's not so much that Okoye/Thor would be the only option for a competitive player but rather it's the best option in terms of:

• sustainability: if a player has Okoye tanking all her colors you can climb with minimal use of health packs
• speed: with iHulk gone, the only team that might be faster would be Apoc/Thor but most competitive players have a higher level Okoye and benefit from her self-heal
• reliability: It's hard to beat Thor's AP generation feeding Okoye's ability to soak up damage and heal it off
•  offensive power: Only Apoc/BRB and Apoc/Thor are comparable

I'm not saying we won't see more variety in the event that iHulk gets nerfed. You yourself championed the Okoye/Thor meta because it allowed players to use different types of teams since they are easy to beat on defense. What I am arguing is that Okoye/Thor would still be the most prevalent and dominant team at the highest tier of play because what it lacks in defensive deterrence it more than makes up in terms of sustainability, speed, reliability and offensive power. Yes, Apoc/Thor is comparable and offers more in terms of defensive deterrence but that comes at the expense of sustainability (ie: Apoc doesn't self heal so the need to use health packs). 

And the fact of the matter is that there is a whole class of competitive players who have focused a lot of their resources into building up their Okoye as high as possible, fully aware of her defensive vulnerability. There aren't as many players with high or comparable Apocalypse on their roster. 

The main problem with your argument is that you are arguing under a hypothetical "all things being equal" position that doesn't take into account the real circumstances of competitive PvP; the first being, the class of competitive players who have built a high Okoye (for many she is their only 5* above level 500), the second being the lack of value defensive deterrence has under an Okoye/Thor meta, and the third being the politics of PVP point generation (a point that goes beyond the scope of this conversation). 

I suppose what I found most disingenuous about your comments was your casual referencing of Bishop and Worthy Cap as indicators that the Thor/Okoye meta was over. Yes, at the time, you could have certainly made that argument but that is simply no longer the case with their respective nerfs and you know this.  Not only that, you actively campaigned against that meta. You also mention Gritty which now is nothing more than a blip on the competitive radar in high end PVP (not sure about 4* tier meta level of play; i think it has been overtaken by Polaris/Kitty teams but I could be wrong) and is no real threat to optimized Okoye/Thor teams. 

The fact that your own Character Ranking guide places both Okoye/Thor at rank 1 and 2 is a tacit acknowledgement that at the end of the day their offensive power is more than enough for a player to do well in both PvP and PvE, despite what defensive meta exists in PvP. 

In an ideal scenario, two different metas would exist for PvE and PvP. PvE would be more offensively focused and PvP more defensively. Unfortunately that isn't the case currently. The closest we had was the Stunner brothers meta but unfortunately that got nerfed when we now have Apocalypse and Cyclops with stun immunity. But that's a different conversation for another day.