Nerf Bishop
Comments
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ThaRoadWarrior said:Th4nos/S4bretooth/Main Event (or any 4* Hulk i suppose - they like that green from th4nos and all offer some element of board control or board shake) is probably a decent team in 4* territory, but I can't tell since I need 5* health pools or stun locks to even attempt that battle with my MMR. Or maybe swap out the Hulk option for Rogue instead.
I like Sabretooth a lot but too often you can't match the strikes and he is done for, not to mention his cheap red is all about Okoye, if you have a low covered one of her it is not worth running.ThaRoadWarrior said:Th4nos/S4bretooth/Main Event (or any 4* Hulk i suppose - they like that green from th4nos and all offer some element of board control or board shake) is probably a decent team in 4* territory, but I can't tell since I need 5* health pools or stun locks to even attempt that battle with my MMR. Or maybe swap out the Hulk option for Rogue instead.0 -
DAZ0273 said:
I like Sabretooth a lot but too often you can't match the strikes and he is done for, not to mention his cheap red is all about Okoye, if you have a low covered one of her it is not worth running.ThaRoadWarrior said:Th4nos/S4bretooth/Main Event (or any 4* Hulk i suppose - they like that green from th4nos and all offer some element of board control or board shake) is probably a decent team in 4* territory, but I can't tell since I need 5* health pools or stun locks to even attempt that battle with my MMR. Or maybe swap out the Hulk option for Rogue instead.
That's where Main Event comes in - I keep mine with 5 on Grand Entrance for maximum nonsense. He'll give you that initial board shake, then your Th4nos can work on whatever's left if you have 5 on whatever power that is that turns enemy specials to green.0 -
What do you not get? Currently in SIM I just did a match with my 514 Okoye, 503 Thor and 490 JJ against a 320 Bishop, 370 RG and 460 Kitty.HoundofShadow said:The whales need to complain.
Just expect safer (or more boring) characters to be released.
My first turn: OK full health at 97,000 JJ at 78,000 and Thor at 35,000
Match 4 red to remove 2 strike tiles that lead to a match 3 of blue.
Bishop now has 10 blue before the first move.
AI:
buff remanding 5 strike tiles
Match 3 blue.
Now 13 Blue.
2nd move:
Match 3 yellow. No strike tiles removed.
Match TU tile.
Bishop has 2,000 health
gain 10 more blue for a total of 23 in 1 of their moves
AI:
buff 5 strike tiles
stun party starts
end of match:
JJ dead
OK dead
Thor 3,000 health left
win match
do you truly think that this is reasonable?12 -
Lol, don't have 5 green. Meh Hulk is OK but you gamble everything on turn 1, fail and you die!ThaRoadWarrior said:DAZ0273 said:
I like Sabretooth a lot but too often you can't match the strikes and he is done for, not to mention his cheap red is all about Okoye, if you have a low covered one of her it is not worth running.ThaRoadWarrior said:Th4nos/S4bretooth/Main Event (or any 4* Hulk i suppose - they like that green from th4nos and all offer some element of board control or board shake) is probably a decent team in 4* territory, but I can't tell since I need 5* health pools or stun locks to even attempt that battle with my MMR. Or maybe swap out the Hulk option for Rogue instead.
That's where Main Event comes in - I keep mine with 5 on Grand Entrance for maximum nonsense. He'll give you that initial board shake, then your Th4nos can work on whatever's left if you have 5 on whatever power that is that turns enemy specials to green.
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If the only acceptable strategy to fight a team is to skip them 100% of the time, there may be an issue with that....The rockett said:
What do you not get? Currently in SIM I just did a match with my 514 Okoye, 503 Thor and 490 JJ against a 320 Bishop, 370 RG and 460 Kitty.HoundofShadow said:The whales need to complain.
Just expect safer (or more boring) characters to be released.
My first turn: OK full health at 97,000 JJ at 78,000 and Thor at 35,000
Match 4 red to remove 2 strike tiles that lead to a match 3 of blue.
Bishop now has 10 blue before the first move.
AI:
buff remanding 5 strike tiles
Match 3 blue.
Now 13 Blue.
2nd move:
Match 3 yellow. No strike tiles removed.
Match TU tile.
Bishop has 2,000 health
gain 10 more blue for a total of 23 in 1 of their moves
AI:
buff 5 strike tiles
stun party starts
end of match:
JJ dead
OK dead
Thor 3,000 health left
win match
do you truly think that this is reasonable?1 -
That's a different argument than the one I was debating.Sm0keyJ0e said:Borstock said:Sm0keyJ0e said:LLohm said:
and to people telling me Silver Surfer and Ock can be in a state of “cannot be stunned”, there are many powers which hit for very big damage in the color blue in the 4* Arena. Why should people who pay or work hard for their 5* be derailed by 1 faulty broken character?
I agree. Furthermore, most folks who have entered the 5* tier in the last couple years likely do not have Surfer or Ock and no feasible way to gather their covers in a reasonable amount of time. On top of that, Surfer or Ock on a team worth anything is basically a grill for all other 5* teams, maybe even some 4* teams.The last part of your argument doesn't work for me because, pre-Bishop+Gritty, there was NO reliable defensive team. Every single team could and would get pummeled given time. The only thing that even came CLOSE to a defensive squad was Mr. Cardusa, and the only reason that team was good on defense was because the animations were super long and no one wanted to sit there and watch them. Once they added the feature to disable animations, that team wasn't effective anymore either.If they ever release a no-meta balance, it might be more fun, but it will also make any team you can think of a grill team. That can't be part of the reason to nerf Bishop, IMO.
People with 500+ rosters should not have to use a 453 Surfer or Ock to fight Bishop. Simple as that.
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It is so obvious this team is broken...The rockett said:
What do you not get? Currently in SIM I just did a match with my 514 Okoye, 503 Thor and 490 JJ against a 320 Bishop, 370 RG and 460 Kitty.HoundofShadow said:The whales need to complain.
Just expect safer (or more boring) characters to be released.
My first turn: OK full health at 97,000 JJ at 78,000 and Thor at 35,000
Match 4 red to remove 2 strike tiles that lead to a match 3 of blue.
Bishop now has 10 blue before the first move.
AI:
buff remanding 5 strike tiles
Match 3 blue.
Now 13 Blue.
2nd move:
Match 3 yellow. No strike tiles removed.
Match TU tile.
Bishop has 2,000 health
gain 10 more blue for a total of 23 in 1 of their moves
AI:
buff 5 strike tiles
stun party starts
end of match:
JJ dead
OK dead
Thor 3,000 health left
win match
do you truly think that this is reasonable?
People complaining are just people that thanks to him can actually beat way stronger teams, that they should have never been able to beat in the first place ( like a D&D level 1 fighter beating an Adult red dragon :P ).0 -
My own Th4nos is 2/1/4, so I won't be able to lean on him for awhile either lol. But i'm pretty sure he works great.DAZ0273 said:Lol, don't have 5 green. Meh Hulk is OK but you gamble everything on turn 1, fail and you die!0 -
I'm just exploring different viewpoints.
In my previous post about Bishop, I mentioned that it's the jumping in ability of his that could be fixed by increasing the damage threshold. If not, all the devs need to do is to add this to his jumping in ability: if Bishop's teammates would take X damage or more, and Bishop has more health than the targeted ally, Bishop jumps to the front.
If Bishop is kept at the back, he won't be able to gain blue ap and thr players' team won't be stunned.
There's no need to nerf him. Just tighten up his one ability and he still can keep his blue ap generation. It's a win for both group of players that are for and against his nerf.0 -
Thank you so much for proving my point! I asked for an honest to goodness counter. And your only suggestion is an 11 cover Ock who has to luck into a match 4 on turn 1 to beat Bishop and a 9 cover surfer whose only redeeming quality is he can eat a Bishop blue to no effect IF he happens to be tanking. Both need to tank, both will provide little to no offense at their levels and both will have super low health making them dead in a couple turns once Gritty gets rolling. I’ll bite and ask who is the third person I should run with this dynamic duo of under-covered Ock/Surfer, and do you think this trio can reliably win matches against champed 5* rosters?DAZ0273 said:
Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?Daredevil217 said:
Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs.acescracked said:
I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,justsing said:
Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o lacescracked said:
Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing.Daredevil217 said:
But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.acescracked said:
Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.justsing said:So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over?
See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look).
You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team. Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
If that’s the answer for a counter at my level, you just proved my point. And I’m one of the “lucky” ones. What about those with even lower level Ocks and Surfers. Or those looking to bust hoards and finally transition with the trio of Ice/X/Storm. What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.3 -
That's on you. Last night in S3 beat a 307(I think) bishop, 500 JJ, 412 Ock with my newly champed (took me forever to champ!) 453 kitty, 341 rocket, 382 Ock.Daredevil217 said:
Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs.acescracked said:
I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,justsing said:
Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o lacescracked said:
Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing.Daredevil217 said:
But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.acescracked said:
Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.justsing said:So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over?
See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look).
You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team. Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
Probably would of had a harder time with Thor/okoyoe. But yea I couldn't auto play had to think a little bit. Understandable of most viewpoints on this topic. People play MPQ mostly to just pass time; losing and having to think a little mess that up.0 -
Don't get me wrong; I agree with everything you're saying about Bishop. I've played less and less PVP as Bishop becomes more prominent. However, at the same time I find it hilarious that the guy on the forums who literally made a name for himself by staying in the 4* tier for long past when he could have jumped up is making this argumentDaredevil217 said:What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.
Again, absolutely no offense intended...just a "look how far we've come" moment...
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Thorkoye/Sabes with +2 r/y, +2 tu, +2 all reliably beats Gritty/Bishop if there is a red match available first turn, and no cascade, which is to say it wins 50% of the time with max level boosting, which is absurd.0
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Not going to lie... I liked this post.ZootSax said:
Don't get me wrong; I agree with everything you're saying about Bishop. I've played less and less PVP as Bishop becomes more prominent. However, at the same time I find it hilarious that the guy on the forums who literally made a name for himself by staying in the 4* tier for long past when he could have jumped up is making this argumentDaredevil217 said:What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.
Again, absolutely no offense intended...just a "look how far we've come" moment...
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I didn't prove anything apart from you misleading us about your roster, lol!Daredevil217 said:
Thank you so much for proving my point! I asked for an honest to goodness counter. And your only suggestion is an 11 cover Ock who has to luck into a match 4 on turn 1 to beat Bishop and a 9 cover surfer whose only redeeming quality is he can eat a Bishop blue to no effect IF he happens to be tanking. Both need to tank, both will provide little to no offense at their levels and both will have super low health making them dead in a couple turns once Gritty gets rolling. I’ll bite and ask who is the third person I should run with this dynamic duo of under-covered Ock/Surfer, and do you think this trio can reliably win matches against champed 5* rosters?DAZ0273 said:
Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?Daredevil217 said:
Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs.acescracked said:
I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,justsing said:
Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o lacescracked said:
Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing.Daredevil217 said:
But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.acescracked said:
Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.justsing said:So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over?
See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look).
You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team. Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
If that’s the answer for a counter at my level, you just proved my point. And I’m one of the “lucky” ones. What about those with even lower level Ocks and Surfers. Or those looking to bust hoards and finally transition with the trio of Ice/X/Storm. What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.
Oh and how disingenuous to suggest this is my "only suggestion"!!! My comment was simple - you said one thing and by your own posts elsewhere showed that you weren't in the category of having "no Ock/no Surfer". I could maybe err on the 5* side for Bishop but not when posts like this are just completely misleading. "I don't have a defence apart from the one I actually do have". Wow.0 -
Surfer has to tank until Bishop is dead. That’s a lot of turns. Bishop makes +5 every single match in your colors. Surfer’s cheap power doesn’t do much damage. Doesn’t leave many options, particularly since even if you clear the strikes, Rocket likely has his blue out, which starts Kitty all over, while double dipping on whatever strikes are left.DAZ0273 said:
I didn't prove anything apart from you misleading us about your roster, lol!Daredevil217 said:
Thank you so much for proving my point! I asked for an honest to goodness counter. And your only suggestion is an 11 cover Ock who has to luck into a match 4 on turn 1 to beat Bishop and a 9 cover surfer whose only redeeming quality is he can eat a Bishop blue to no effect IF he happens to be tanking. Both need to tank, both will provide little to no offense at their levels and both will have super low health making them dead in a couple turns once Gritty gets rolling. I’ll bite and ask who is the third person I should run with this dynamic duo of under-covered Ock/Surfer, and do you think this trio can reliably win matches against champed 5* rosters?DAZ0273 said:
Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?Daredevil217 said:
Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs.acescracked said:
I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,justsing said:
Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o lacescracked said:
Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing.Daredevil217 said:
But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.acescracked said:
Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.justsing said:So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over?
See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look).
You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team. Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
If that’s the answer for a counter at my level, you just proved my point. And I’m one of the “lucky” ones. What about those with even lower level Ocks and Surfers. Or those looking to bust hoards and finally transition with the trio of Ice/X/Storm. What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.
Oh and how disingenuous to suggest this is my "only suggestion"!!! My comment was simple - you said one thing and by your own posts elsewhere showed that you weren't in the category of having "no Ock/no Surfer". I could maybe err on the 5* side for Bishop but not when posts like this are just completely misleading. "I don't have a defence apart from the one I actually do have". Wow.0 -
Fair enough again, was never arguing about how effective it is. If you read other parts of the thread you'll see how I sympathise with having understrength defences to troublesome teams.658_2 said:
Surfer has to tank until Bishop is dead. That’s a lot of turns. Bishop makes +5 every single match in your colors. Surfer’s cheap power doesn’t do much damage. Doesn’t leave many options, particularly since even if you clear the strikes, Rocket likely has his blue out, which starts Kitty all over, while double dipping on whatever strikes are left.DAZ0273 said:
I didn't prove anything apart from you misleading us about your roster, lol!Daredevil217 said:
Thank you so much for proving my point! I asked for an honest to goodness counter. And your only suggestion is an 11 cover Ock who has to luck into a match 4 on turn 1 to beat Bishop and a 9 cover surfer whose only redeeming quality is he can eat a Bishop blue to no effect IF he happens to be tanking. Both need to tank, both will provide little to no offense at their levels and both will have super low health making them dead in a couple turns once Gritty gets rolling. I’ll bite and ask who is the third person I should run with this dynamic duo of under-covered Ock/Surfer, and do you think this trio can reliably win matches against champed 5* rosters?DAZ0273 said:
Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?Daredevil217 said:
Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs.acescracked said:
I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,justsing said:
Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o lacescracked said:
Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing.Daredevil217 said:
But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.acescracked said:
Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.justsing said:So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over?
See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look).
You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team. Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
If that’s the answer for a counter at my level, you just proved my point. And I’m one of the “lucky” ones. What about those with even lower level Ocks and Surfers. Or those looking to bust hoards and finally transition with the trio of Ice/X/Storm. What are they supposed to do? Stay in the 4* tier I guess. Great for the growth of the game.
Oh and how disingenuous to suggest this is my "only suggestion"!!! My comment was simple - you said one thing and by your own posts elsewhere showed that you weren't in the category of having "no Ock/no Surfer". I could maybe err on the 5* side for Bishop but not when posts like this are just completely misleading. "I don't have a defence apart from the one I actually do have". Wow.
None of that is my point. The poster states "How do I as a 5* player with no Ock/Surfer beat Bishop?" - I just pointed out that this poster DOES have Ock and Surfer so his point is a bit confusing, no? He has the defence he claims he doesn't! Is it a good defence? I dunno but it stops Bishop stunning you! Then he replies to me and all out attacks me claiming I offer this as my "only suggestion" and otherwise talking about stuff I never even commented on! No, I offered no suggestions whatsoever, just an honest point that you can't really claim you don't have Ock and Surfer when in fact you do!0 -
To be fair, I have dual 5* MMR, and I don't have functional Oc (1/0/2) or Surfer (2/1/3), nor do I have a BSSM that works (3/1/0). This situation is far from hypothetical.
Not trying to get at you, @DAZ0273, just wanted to say that's a real cautionary tale that I am personally living.
0 -
This forum needs a collapse quotes option....11
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To be frank about it, this really seems like a Thorkoye problem. No free leaps to the top without using health packs.
PVP is playable for me with my own Gritty/Bishop and Okoye/Sabretooth/Random third I bring. In fact I can usually place just as high or higher than before and definitely get further on progression.
If Thorkoye was my go to Meta I’d probably be miffed about Bishop too, but I still wouldn’t call for a nerf. Just saying.
It would be nice to protect my particular interests at the expense of everyone else, but it just doesn’t feel like a fair move.1
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