Nerf Bishop

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  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked said:
    justsing said:
    acescracked said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    acescracked said:
    justsing said:
    So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over? 
    Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.
    But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.

    See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look). 


    Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing. 

    You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team.  Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
    Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o l

    You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
    I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,

    Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
    Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    I feel Bishop shouldve had 5* Icemans mechanic where instead of stunning for 4 turns he puts down those single stun CDs when he hits his AP threshold. At least that way you could do something (you know, actually play the game). Then give Bobby a straight 4-turn stun like his 4* counterpart since he actually needs to collect his AP. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just found a Gritty/Juggernaut team in simulator... he seemed not quite champed, but had decent health. I was able to win with a champion GE Doom/GR RR/Nearly Champed Jessica Jones after both GR and GED were killed (removing the strikes). 

    Maybe the Bishop meta is on it's way out already, and we'll be able to reconvene in a month or so and complain about Juggernaut...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    @ThaRoadWarrior

    Sabretooth might have been useful there too.

    One problem with Doom is that unless the AI is chasing both black and yellow he's not much good overall.  And that AI team would ignore black for the most part.

    Juggs will add to the mix of teams but Bishop isn't going anywhere in his current state.
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    LLohm said:

    and to people telling me Silver Surfer and Ock can be in a state of “cannot be stunned”, there are many powers which hit for very big damage in the color blue in the 4* Arena. Why should people who pay or work hard for their 5* be derailed by 1 faulty broken character?


    I agree. Furthermore, most folks who have entered the 5* tier in the last couple years likely do not have Surfer or Ock and no feasible way to gather their covers in a reasonable amount of time. On top of that, Surfer or Ock on a team worth anything is basically a grill for all other 5* teams, maybe even some 4* teams. 

    It's just dumb that there's no reasonable counter, and like I mentioned before, a counter to this guy could be worse and even more game-breaking. Bishop needs the nerf bat.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    The whales need to complain.

    Just expect safer (or more boring) characters to be released. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    The whales need to complain.

    Just expect more safe (or boring) characters to be released. 

    Once again you add absolutely nothing to the conversation. Why is a well-described problem by numerous players who are in the 5* tier, not just "whales" as you say, dismissed as complaining?
    Are whales (those with 550 champs) really struggling with Bishop like that?

    I know I can’t stand him and in the history of the game I’ve never been VIP, spent on one bundle ($20 I think) and have been $2 a month for about 1-2 years. So less than 70 bucks over 4 years is whale territory now?
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    LLohm said:

    and to people telling me Silver Surfer and Ock can be in a state of “cannot be stunned”, there are many powers which hit for very big damage in the color blue in the 4* Arena. Why should people who pay or work hard for their 5* be derailed by 1 faulty broken character?


    I agree. Furthermore, most folks who have entered the 5* tier in the last couple years likely do not have Surfer or Ock and no feasible way to gather their covers in a reasonable amount of time. On top of that, Surfer or Ock on a team worth anything is basically a grill for all other 5* teams, maybe even some 4* teams.

    The last part of your argument doesn't work for me because, pre-Bishop+Gritty, there was NO reliable defensive team. Every single team could and would get pummeled given time. The only thing that even came CLOSE to a defensive squad was Mr. Cardusa, and the only reason that team was good on defense was because the animations were super long and no one wanted to sit there and watch them. Once they added the feature to disable animations, that team wasn't effective anymore either.

    If they ever release a no-meta balance, it might be more fun, but it will also make any team you can think of a grill team. That can't be part of the reason to nerf Bishop, IMO.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    The devs have all kinds of data, including our spending. If the unhappy are mostly made up of players with very minimal spending, and the whales and a bigger percentage of the players are happy with the current situation, then the situation won't be changed. Look at R4G, the call for its nerf has been prevalent for years, and R4G is still putting out 7 strike tiles with zero cost.

    If you want to interpret "more" as "all", I can't stop you. Carry on... 
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    Borstock said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    LLohm said:

    and to people telling me Silver Surfer and Ock can be in a state of “cannot be stunned”, there are many powers which hit for very big damage in the color blue in the 4* Arena. Why should people who pay or work hard for their 5* be derailed by 1 faulty broken character?


    I agree. Furthermore, most folks who have entered the 5* tier in the last couple years likely do not have Surfer or Ock and no feasible way to gather their covers in a reasonable amount of time. On top of that, Surfer or Ock on a team worth anything is basically a grill for all other 5* teams, maybe even some 4* teams.

    The last part of your argument doesn't work for me because, pre-Bishop+Gritty, there was NO reliable defensive team. Every single team could and would get pummeled given time. The only thing that even came CLOSE to a defensive squad was Mr. Cardusa, and the only reason that team was good on defense was because the animations were super long and no one wanted to sit there and watch them. Once they added the feature to disable animations, that team wasn't effective anymore either.

    If they ever release a no-meta balance, it might be more fun, but it will also make any team you can think of a grill team. That can't be part of the reason to nerf Bishop, IMO.

    People with 500+ rosters should not have to use a 453 Surfer or Ock to fight Bishop. Simple as that.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    bluewolf said:
    @ThaRoadWarrior

    Sabretooth might have been useful there too.

    Since I've been trying to bonus my way to a Jessica Jones (4/3/4) via Chavez (lvl 330) since January, I have a trash-tier Sabretooth at 3/2/3 (in fact, everybody that's come out since Bishop is not even eligible for Shield Training save Namor <covered+1, but lvl 94>, let alone champed, on my roster)
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    acescracked said:
    justsing said:
    acescracked said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    acescracked said:
    justsing said:
    So... who else is glad that Bishop’s boost week is over? 
    Not you! Everytime I Q'd you in PvP you were running bishop.
    But there in lies the problem! We hate to run Bishop but must run Bishop because otherwise we get hit while the other Bishop teams flourish. You can use him every single match and still want him nerfed.

    See: Pre-nerf Gambit (really that comparison should be enough to at least warrant a look). 


    Not even close. If you didn't counter Gambit with your own you had a high rate of losing. 

    You can use alot of different teams to beat a bishop team.  Obviously come out beat up a little to alot.
    Is that why I got hit a bazillion times? Oh wait, the hits stopped once I switched to Bishop. l o l

    You can't run Thorkoye, Gritty, or the other teams you actually like running when everyone else is running Bishop teams. That's just painting a big fat target on your forehead. So yeah, I ran Bishop. And hated every minute of it.
    I skipped you because you help out in the PVE room, not because of bishop...haha. Lesson learned, I'll happily hit your bishop team and give you all the reds you need! If you climb high enough you'll get more from others,

    Funny you mention "can't run Thorkoye, Gritty" since both of them have had their share of NERF EM! threads. Ever since the community got D3 to nerf Gambit every team now that poses a threat needs to be nerfed. It seems a good percentage of the folks want easy win teams. Gritty teams are like a harder grill and bishop takes a little thought to beat. Stop asking for easy mode.
    Honest question, how do I as a 5* player with no Surfer/Ock beat Bishop? Any matches I make trigger him for big retal damage and before I know it my team is stun locked and I’m eaten alive by 4 turns of unmitigated strike buffs. 
    Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    DAZ0273 said:

    Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?
    Not to speak out of turn on this, but even with dual 5* MMR, the levels I'm seeing on Bishop, 4ocket, etc when paired with 5*s is astronomical, near max-champ. An unchamped 5* can't hang on my roster.

    I've tried running a 450 GED with a 2/4/4 405 Lumbercap as an anti-gritty attempt, and lumbercap just gets stomped out before I get the requisite yellow to revive doom. Health pools are too low, and if your build isn't "right," it's as good as not having them.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wonder if Hela punishes blue instead of green, what effect would that have on Bishop. Certainly, it wouldn’t be game breaking.
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2019
    jp1 said:
    I wonder if Hela punishes blue instead of green, what effect would that have on Bishop. Certainly, it wouldn’t be game breaking.
    Little, because Bishop has generally spent it before it comes back to your turn. In the event he cascades into 20 blue, Hela would destroy 2 of it, giving him 18, before she'd punch him in the face giving him another 5, so he'd actually have more than what he started with.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hela's AP nibble doesn't take a large enough bite to hurt what I assume is the Gladiathor meta; it really just kicks the dead horse that is Banner, and keeps my GRRR from being able to get Hell Ride on the board for a turn.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    Last you posted your roster you had an 11 cover Ock and a 9 cover Surfer...not trying to be pedantic or anything but that is hardly "no Surfer/Ock" and skews your point a bit here. I understand that you consider these characters "unusable" because they are not champed but if they block the stun they are a Bishop counter, no?
    Not to speak out of turn on this, but even with dual 5* MMR, the levels I'm seeing on Bishop, 4ocket, etc when paired with 5*s is astronomical, near max-champ. An unchamped 5* can't hang on my roster.

    I've tried running a 450 GED with a 2/4/4 405 Lumbercap as an anti-gritty attempt, and lumbercap just gets stomped out before I get the requisite yellow to revive doom. Health pools are too low, and if your build isn't "right," it's as good as not having them.
    Fair enough. This is tricky as it seems these high level Bishop's are 5* players also but the solution hurts the 4* tier badly. I use Bishop on offense to get past Gritty so it would badly affect me. Sabretooth just isn't reliable and 4Than is OK but also hit and miss. 

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