5-Stars in Heroes for Hire (10/24/17)

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  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfury said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    Well, to be fair, swaping covers is not a job Customer Support should have to deal with. I mean they shouldn't have been involved in this. They made a huge mistake somewhere on the line, and it got to this. So I rather find it normal that solutions should be sought to make it not necessary for CS to step in and swap any cover. Maybe this is one try toward that direction. 

    But again I feel people are too negative even from the start. You can currently buy a cover for a 5* with 720 CP (while it is a certain cover, that is a way to big price to pay). But having the option to pay 250 CP for a classic 5* is more than great in my book, and that is where the buys are going to take place. Latest covers (heroes, items, or other) are more expensive than other content in every game, not just MPQ, so while a normal thing to do, I don't recommend anyone to buy from there, if that is not the last cover to champ. 

    But overall, I think this is good news. 


    IF they stop swapping latest 3 after introducing 5* HFH, it would be a significant downgrade overall.

    We get about 80 PvE events per year. With the 3:2 split between latest and classic, that's 32 classic featured 5* per year. AKA 1.5 years for the covers to cycle around (assuming no further additions)

    So yes, 5* HFH can help finish a nearly finished classic 5* - if you can wait 9 (and rising) months on average.

    That's nice and all, but nowhere near the current ability to get a latest 5* champed with 13 covers without having to fear dupes. If they take away that in exchange, it's a terrible deal for the playerbase.

    And as you said "swapping covers is not a job CS should do". That's exactly what makes many of us expect this step to come sooner rather than later.

    Also keep in mind that they just made it significantly harder to get CP...
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dartmaster01 said:
    I have to say, if they get rid of swaps right before I pull my hoard, I'll probably be done with this game. It's to depressing to save for 6+ months only to have them sweep in and change the rules on you at the last minute. I'm going to stay optimistic for now even though their track record doesn't warrant it.
    I am with you. I am weeks away from pulling after months of sacrificing my progress. I don't know what I will do if they change the rules in the middle of the game. 
  • stewbacca
    stewbacca Posts: 82 Match Maker
    there email does say that this swapping service can be removed at any time so please use this service as soon as possible.   
  • Philly484
    Philly484 Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    Takes away CP from vets, then introduces a good change in a way, but now the New players will be crying cause they don't have the CP they need. Interesting to say the least. 
  • talleman
    talleman Posts: 446 Mover and Shaker
    This makes me wanna level my 5*s and im barely in the 4* land :worried:
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    Philly484 said:
    Takes away CP from vets, then introduces a good change in a way, but now the New players will be crying cause they don't have the CP they need. Interesting to say the least. 
    Who are these new players who were hitting 1200 in PVP regularly? I need them to teach me their ways.

    As far as the change goes, I'm down with it. I have a bunch of classic characters at 11-12 covers that I would absolutely shell out a few hundred CP to finish.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    talleman said:
    This makes me wanna level my 5*s and im barely in the 4* land :worried:
    Once you level the 5s, the 4s are irrelevant anyone and can be skipped.
  • Philly484
    Philly484 Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    Jarvind said:
    Philly484 said:
    Takes away CP from vets, then introduces a good change in a way, but now the New players will be crying cause they don't have the CP they need. Interesting to say the least. 
    Who are these new players who were hitting 1200 in PVP regularly? I need them to teach me their ways.

    As far as the change goes, I'm down with it. I have a bunch of classic characters at 11-12 covers that I would absolutely shell out a few hundred CP to finish.
    Well seeing as how 1200 is irrelevant now in PVP for CP, I doubt it would be hard for 3* and 4*players to hit that at lower, but most probably just do their 40wins and stop. 
  • Roland113
    Roland113 Posts: 298 Mover and Shaker
    Quebbster said:
    Roland113 said:
    I'm a fan, I don't have any Bruce Banner covers and will gladly spend 250 CP when that store comes up to have the character for the PvE Event.

    I know those Words, but that sentence makes no sense...
    I am a fan of the store.
    I don't have Bruce Banner rostered.
    When he is the featured 5 star I will gladly spend 250 CP to purchase a cover so I can play the required nodes.

  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    pheregas said:
    talleman said:
    This makes me wanna level my 5*s and im barely in the 4* land :worried:
    Once you level the 5s, the 4s are irrelevant anyone and can be skipped.
    That is not really true.  Boosted 4*s are not useless in combo with 5*s,  at 400+ they actualy have stronger powers.

    Plus essentials and champ rewards are an important source of resources.
    I'm not saying they are not worth champing.  I am in the champ-them-all camp.  I'm just saying to do the 5s first, then go back and fill in the 4s as they come.  For competition purposes, we live in a 5* world.  There are few exceptions to utilizing one of my boosted 4s over my 5s, but they do exist and as I get in the 4* unboosted-320+ realm, it is happening more often.
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Philly484 said:
    Jarvind said:
    Philly484 said:
    Takes away CP from vets, then introduces a good change in a way, but now the New players will be crying cause they don't have the CP they need. Interesting to say the least. 
    Who are these new players who were hitting 1200 in PVP regularly? I need them to teach me their ways.

    As far as the change goes, I'm down with it. I have a bunch of classic characters at 11-12 covers that I would absolutely shell out a few hundred CP to finish.
    Well seeing as how 1200 is irrelevant now in PVP for CP, I doubt it would be hard for 3* and 4*players to hit that at lower, but most probably just do their 40wins and stop. 
    Haha you think most people actually go for 40 wins?

    In any case, this isn't a bad change, but it's a minor one.  The value of the HfH store isn't enough to see people buying new 5s for value; it's only good for the occasional classic character, and that's a revenue stream that will die out eventually.

    The way this is set up, the average player will never use it at all, because the average player doesn't hoard.  For example, I could imagine spending 250 CP to get my first red cover for my 0/5/3 IM46, but since I don't hoard, I'm never going to have the kind of slush to actually do it.  The problem isn't that it isn't an acceptable value, but that it isn't a good enough value to offer the motivation to save for it.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 6,293 Chairperson of the Boards
    But you see, the whaling of classic 5's has become almost impossible with dilution.  This new store function makes whaling a Classic 5* possible.  That's the intended audience.  This is a game that needs to generate purchases, after all.

    Whether players who don't participate in buy clubs use it or not is kind of secondary.

    That said, maybe someday I can buy my 13th 5HE cover (it's purple, so maybe I can get it sometime soonish.)  So I'm in favor of it.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    carrion pigeons said:
    Philly484 said:
    Jarvind said:
    Philly484 said:
    Takes away CP from vets, then introduces a good change in a way, but now the New players will be crying cause they don't have the CP they need. Interesting to say the least. 
    Who are these new players who were hitting 1200 in PVP regularly? I need them to teach me their ways.

    As far as the change goes, I'm down with it. I have a bunch of classic characters at 11-12 covers that I would absolutely shell out a few hundred CP to finish.
    Well seeing as how 1200 is irrelevant now in PVP for CP, I doubt it would be hard for 3* and 4*players to hit that at lower, but most probably just do their 40wins and stop. 
    Haha you think most people actually go for 40 wins?

    In any case, this isn't a bad change, but it's a minor one.  The value of the HfH store isn't enough to see people buying new 5s for value; it's only good for the occasional classic character, and that's a revenue stream that will die out eventually.

    The way this is set up, the average player will never use it at all, because the average player doesn't hoard.  For example, I could imagine spending 250 CP to get my first red cover for my 0/5/3 IM46, but since I don't hoard, I'm never going to have the kind of slush to actually do it.  The problem isn't that it isn't an acceptable value, but that it isn't a good enough value to offer the motivation to save for it.
    I don't even...
    You don't need to "hoard" for 250 CP.
    That's like two weeks tops, even for a very average player.

    PVE CL9 gives you 40 CP progression every 3/4 days plus 2 CP daily (5 if you have the 5* essential) - let's say that's 70 prog plus 14 every week.
    DDQ another 14 weekly.
    Surely you can make 10 CP every PVP, that's another 30 CP per week.

    So a very, very conservative estimate without champ rewards, PVP placement, PVE placement, daily supply and other sources gives you 128 CP per week, so you can buy a classic cover every two weeks.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,607 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    Bowgentle said:
    6* characters incoming.
    I’ve been thinking that was coming for a while. This is totally another feather in that cap. Try and get the hoarders to blow all their CP so they can’t champ a 6* the second it comes out. 

    Also so did I just agree with Bow?  I feel dirty...  :-p
    You silly optimists thinking they'd let us acquire 6*s with CP. If they just create a new currency/token, it doesn't matter how much CP people have hoarded. (you know, like they did back when they created CP and added 5*s)
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    Before this, the only way to focus on covers for a specific 5* has been with favorites, which didn't cut it -- I have personally never received a bonus 5* cover. 

    The Classic cover is reasonably priced and I'll be saving up for the ones I want.

  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    pheregas said:
    Vhailorx said:
    pheregas said:
    talleman said:
    This makes me wanna level my 5*s and im barely in the 4* land :worried:
    Once you level the 5s, the 4s are irrelevant anyone and can be skipped.
    That is not really true.  Boosted 4*s are not useless in combo with 5*s,  at 400+ they actualy have stronger powers.

    Plus essentials and champ rewards are an important source of resources.
    I'm not saying they are not worth champing.  I am in the champ-them-all camp.  I'm just saying to do the 5s first, then go back and fill in the 4s as they come.  For competition purposes, we live in a 5* world.  There are few exceptions to utilizing one of my boosted 4s over my 5s, but they do exist and as I get in the 4* unboosted-320+ realm, it is happening more often.
    I agree with you as do 5* first, if we are missing one cover (or maybe 2), or we just need to purchase our 1st cover of 5* char.

    but how we can do the 5* first, if we don't do the 4* first?
    game does not give 5* covers as rewards, and the only source for 5* is CP/LT, and now we can use CP to purchase 5* cover from the new HfH.

    if you mean we spend all our cp in HfH to get 5*, and postponed 4*, I don't think this the best way to do, ok maybe I purchase form 5* HfH for my first cover of each 5* (for PVE), or maybe i purchase last one (or last 2) covers of 5* to finish it and can champ it (or maybe level it some levels), other than that it is not a good strategy to spend our CP (even 250cp) for each 5* cover, keep opening from classic is much better.

    lets assume each of our 5* char already have 7 covers on it (so we need 6 more), and now we have 19 5* (lets assume latest = 250cp too for easy calculation), so we will need:
    19 x 6 = 114 5* covers.
    cost from new HfH will be 114 x 250 CP = 28500 CP
    while if we open these from classic with chance of 1/7 of getting 5* we will get 28500 / (7 x 20) = 203 5* covers (not counting BH) and 1222 4* coves (which in return will give us cp and LT + other champ rewards).
    only from 5* perspective this is 203 5* (random) covers from classic vs 114 5* (specific) covers from HfH.

    another way to think about it is we can not build 5* fast from 5* HfH, 1- maybe we are not lucky with the offered char/color, 2- we can purchase only one cover for every 3/4 days (not sure), 3- we will have to wait for cycling 5* covers in HfH (for example they will not offer same char in the HfH 2 times in a row, specially if we need same char/same color (imagine how long we will wait)).

    anyway to get our need of 114 5* covers, and assuming the HfH will refresh every 3.5 days (and assuming we can make 250cp in 2.5 days), and we are super lucky the HfH offer will be the one we always want, we will need:
    114 x 3.5 days = 399 days (about 1 year 1 month).

    to champ 3 5* char using HfH (we are lucky to be the one that we want, will be as first 3 in the HfH cycle, and HfH rotate equally) we will need:
    (114 - 16) x 3.5 days =  343 days (less than one year, more than 11 months)
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    I think people are reacting to this store based on what they expect it to be able to do for them, rather than what the devs intend for it to enable a player to do.

    If you are missing an essential 5* character on your roster, this store enables getting them rostered - right now, when you need them. Without the potential waste of other 4*/5* covers you can't use because they're a 6/7/8th or you don't have the iso to get the character with the unexpected cover champed this week (or the next one).

    If you're missing a particular color and that's the one in store, then it's a rare opportunity to guarantee getting the color.

    The question is whether it's worth it to spend 500 CP in those circumstances for a latest, or 250 towards a classic, and a bunch of extra iso that might help in leveling up and/or champing either that character or somebody else you're trying to get done before a cover expires.

    As someone who chased OML for ANY covers for 6 months, I would gladly have spent the 250 CP to ensure getting him on my roster.

    As someone who is about halfway through 4* transition and currently only missing 5* Gambit on my roster... I dunno. I am not sure that the difference in rewards for coming in T250 v T50 for one event and missing out on the node rewards is worth 500 CP to me to overcome.

    Colors I don't have but would make the character significantly more useful to play with (because they'd unlock one of the stronger abilities), I would be more tempted by that. Particularly if going forward it meant making a higher SCL more worthwhile for better rewards. But that would always be a case-by-case week-by-week vs my roster position at any particular moment evaluation.

    For now, it looks like I'm going to have a new minimum CP benchmark just to leave myself the room to choose.

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