sh81 said: Should I go to SCL6? Where scaling is trivial for me, and the rewards are too? Or should I flog myself in 7 but to no avail thanks to the bigger rosters locking it out?
sh81 said: I play PVE, its my game, primarily what I do with mpq. It should be enough to sustain my development, particularly when it demands near 3hrs a day from me.
sh81 said: As it stands the system is set against 5* rosters and leveling players. Put SCL scaling in as has been tested and that just flips so that it works great for 5*s and nobody else. On balance of the two the former has to be preferable, if only because it would represent the vast majority, BUT the solution I propose negates the downsides entirely.
sh81 said: 3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time. 2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token. I dont believe they make my roster stronger.Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there. However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development. CP and LT and Covers are.So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.With these changes why does it have to be either/or? Why not both?Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance!
sh81 said: If you are looking to 3* champ rewards as supporting my 4* transition, sorry but I think that is scraping the barrel.It is most certainly to no avail. I do not advance, and most definitely no where near fights pace of rostering, leveling and champing 4*s before they rotate out.And no, I do not expect to keep pace with him, BUT, it shouldnt be unrealistic for me to want to get 4s rostered and useable, if not fully covered. That doesnt happen from SCL6.I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all.Im an advocate of SCL scaling, I have not once said its a bad thing - only that I believe to successfully filter people to appropriate levels the rewards should be such that it works for everybody.As it stands the system is set against 5* rosters and leveling players. Put SCL scaling in as has been tested and that just flips so that it works great for 5*s and nobody else. On balance of the two the former has to be preferable, if only because it would represent the vast majority, BUT the solution I propose negates the downsides entirely.Introduce SCL scaling (though not at the levels tested, SCL8 is too low)Re work the rewards structure so that at every level you build your roster appropriate to the next level.Simple as that. Where ever you land in there you have clear progress to the next level if you play consistently. Perfect.And yet, we are up to page 6 of people telling me this is wrong and as it is is somehow preferable.
Starfury said: If I may add something:Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.
DarthDeVo said: westnyy2 said: I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that. On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far. Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better. While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall. In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? (EDIT: I was wrong, SCL 6 requires a rank of 27 to enter; my overall point still stands, though.) Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8.
westnyy2 said: I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that. On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far. Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.
@Darth You described a nearly identical roster to mine (rank 86, 12 4* champ, but no 5*s fully covered)
It might just be bracket luck, but without sniping I found SCL7 to be easier than roster based scaling at SL8... However a good finish for me is t10, I have rarely gotten t5, and only t1 maybe twice via bracket sniping which I stopped trying for...
We would progress just fine with SCL7 t50, but if you wanted a guaranteed additional 4* SCL8 is doable and we get that extra 4* via progression I believe.
Sounds like you got some bad luck with the competitiveness of your bracket even given that it was a new release... For reference I was doing my initial clear (4x each node, node by node starting with most points first) in ~45 minutes and the final clear (3x each node) about 5 minutes faster than the initial clear....
I'm all for the abandoning of roster based scaling, at this point only tweaks to reward and level are necessary...
sh81 said: Bowgentle said: sh81 said: 3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time. 2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token. I dont believe they make my roster stronger.Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there. However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development. CP and LT and Covers are.So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.With these changes why does it have to be either/or? Why not both?Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance! There's 5 LTS in every 3* plus a ton of CP.Yes, champ levels on your 3s WILL develop your roster faster than you think.Why do you think are 5* players building dupes of their 3s?It's not the HP for sure. ISO, predominantly. That and the fact it sucks to throw away resources in a game so dependent on them.The majority of the big rewards are back loaded. Im on day 864, I collect 3s like nothing else. Have them all rostered, all champed bar starlord and not one max covered. 242 being my highest, and only now am I getting to the good stuff in there.Of course its not true that there is no use, but in the scheme of things its minor. Its really not somethng that makes a tangible difference day to day. Rather a tiny incremental difference over time.
Bowgentle said: sh81 said: 3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time. 2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token. I dont believe they make my roster stronger.Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there. However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development. CP and LT and Covers are.So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.With these changes why does it have to be either/or? Why not both?Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance! There's 5 LTS in every 3* plus a ton of CP.Yes, champ levels on your 3s WILL develop your roster faster than you think.Why do you think are 5* players building dupes of their 3s?It's not the HP for sure.
sh81 said: I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all.
Milk Jugz said: SCL 1: 1*-2* transition- should reward 2* 1-200 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the restSCL 2: 2* roster- should reward 2* 1-500 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the restSCL 3: 2*-3* transition- should reward 3* 1-50 (varying #s), 2* 51-500 (varying #s), tokens (S and/or E) to the restSCL 4: Early 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-150 (varying #s), 2* 151-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the restSCL 5: Late 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-300 (varying #s), 2* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the restSCL 6: 3*-4* transition- should reward 4* 1-25 (varying #s), 3* 26-400 (varying #s), 2* 401-750 (varying #s), tokens (E and/or H) to the restSCL 7: Early 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-100 (varying #s), 3* 101-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 8: Late 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 9: 4*-5* transition- should reward 5* 1-10 (just 1 cover), 4* 11-300 (varying #s), 3* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 10: 5* roster- should reward 5* 1-50 (just 1 cover, but the top 10 also get a LT), 4* 51-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-750 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
broll said: Milk Jugz said: SCL 1: 1*-2* transition- should reward 2* 1-200 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the restSCL 2: 2* roster- should reward 2* 1-500 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the restSCL 3: 2*-3* transition- should reward 3* 1-50 (varying #s), 2* 51-500 (varying #s), tokens (S and/or E) to the restSCL 4: Early 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-150 (varying #s), 2* 151-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the restSCL 5: Late 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-300 (varying #s), 2* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the restSCL 6: 3*-4* transition- should reward 4* 1-25 (varying #s), 3* 26-400 (varying #s), 2* 401-750 (varying #s), tokens (E and/or H) to the restSCL 7: Early 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-100 (varying #s), 3* 101-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 8: Late 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 9: 4*-5* transition- should reward 5* 1-10 (just 1 cover), 4* 11-300 (varying #s), 3* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the restSCL 10: 5* roster- should reward 5* 1-50 (just 1 cover, but the top 10 also get a LT), 4* 51-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-750 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest You rewards are unrealistically generous to the point of being game breaking, but your expectations on where people should fall in SCLs is pretty close if not perfect. The only thing I would change on that is I'd probably say SCL 10 should be a mega whale area scaling for 550 5* teams. I'm not sure there would be enough people to finish out those brackets or not, but if there is that should probably be a thing, otherwise this your spread is great
I think this discussion is starting to completely loose sight of the progression rewards, and that in order for a given SCL to be valuable you don't need to finish with high placement...
A 3->4 transitioner can hit progression on SCL7 easily and can make progression on SCL8 if they have the right combination of 4*s. Even if SCL7 becomes flooded with 100s of 5* champion rosters hellbent on squeezing all other rosters out of placement rewards, the transitioner easily makes enough resources to strengthen their roster significantly faster than new characters are coming out. The same is true for a roster with 25+ 4* champions.
Placement rewards are not necessary for substantial progress, and I'd take t500 in SCL8 with hitting progression over fighting for t1 in SL6 anyday.
Personally this change in scaling will amount to me getting slightly less resources, but still being far ahead of the release schedule, while at the same time saving hours a day by dropping to SCL7 and rushing through clears with lower level opponents. I'm rank 86 with 12 4* champions, all 5*s sitting unleveled.
sh81 said:And, frankly, the rewards really arent that unrealistic. They are essentially one tick up on where they are now. Im not asking for LTs for every node clear am I? And yet that seems to be how you are reading my posts.
MissChinch said: DarthDeVo said: westnyy2 said: I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that. On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far. Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better. While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall. In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? (EDIT: I was wrong, SCL 6 requires a rank of 27 to enter; my overall point still stands, though.) Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8. @Darth You described a nearly identical roster to mine (rank 86, 12 4* champ, but no 5*s fully covered) It might just be bracket luck, but without sniping I found SCL7 to be easier than roster based scaling at SL8... However a good finish for me is t10, I have rarely gotten t5, and only t1 maybe twice via bracket sniping which I stopped trying for...We would progress just fine with SCL7 t50, but if you wanted a guaranteed additional 4* SCL8 is doable and we get that extra 4* via progression I believe.Sounds like you got some bad luck with the competitiveness of your bracket even given that it was a new release... For reference I was doing my initial clear (4x each node, node by node starting with most points first) in ~45 minutes and the final clear (3x each node) about 5 minutes faster than the initial clear....I'm all for the abandoning of roster based scaling, at this point only tweaks to reward and level are necessary...
Alsmir said: ZeroKarma said: I seriously enjoyed this PvE, and my ally mates were exceptionally positive as well. The key items:Quality of life improvement - I typically cleared cl8 in 20-25 minutes to start each sub and the final grind was a little bit less. With standard scaling, I'm looking at double that at the very leastNo Dark Avengers! - They're not hard, they're just annoying. Level 455 Moonstone/Rags/Venom just takes forever to kill and it isn't enjoyable 4-7 times in a row. Level playing field - Not everyone will be happy with this. Last event I was beaten by two people, each with a lvl 270 Blade as their highest character. I have 10 champed 5* and I guarantee that my enemies were double theirs. This event my top competitors were at similar levels and rosters. Team flexibility - This was a new release, so I generally used my best team all the time. But with the scaling in place I could definitely have taken more time and used boosted 3* and 4* without always relying on the same 5 characters.There are still improvements that can be made. Here are a couple of thoughts. Release cl9 and cl10 - I don't begrudge lower level rosters their rewards. Adding the two new cl's will provide an additional challenge for those people interested, as well as allow the player base to spread out more appropriately. Stop the Grind - With faster clears, I don't want to now have to grind the 3 point node for 20 minutes to place well. You gave us that time back, don't take it away. With low scaling and a Thanos you can best optimal players by grinding the last node. Fix it by adding 10-20 base levels to the enemies after the 6th or 7th clear every match. This way, you can hit the node a few extra times, but eventually it isn't worth the effort. I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense. QoL improvement - only for 5* players, as a transitioner to 4* land I was pretty much locked out of CL8Level playing field - good joke, so you have it easier, but it's much harder for others, is that level playing field? Do you need a dictionary or something?Team flexibility - yet, I'm still forced to use my best team over and over again. Fair as hell.Basically, yet another: "It's easier for me - it's fair. It's worse for others - I don't care, shut up." post. What is it with this game and people who can't use their brains?
ZeroKarma said: I seriously enjoyed this PvE, and my ally mates were exceptionally positive as well. The key items:Quality of life improvement - I typically cleared cl8 in 20-25 minutes to start each sub and the final grind was a little bit less. With standard scaling, I'm looking at double that at the very leastNo Dark Avengers! - They're not hard, they're just annoying. Level 455 Moonstone/Rags/Venom just takes forever to kill and it isn't enjoyable 4-7 times in a row. Level playing field - Not everyone will be happy with this. Last event I was beaten by two people, each with a lvl 270 Blade as their highest character. I have 10 champed 5* and I guarantee that my enemies were double theirs. This event my top competitors were at similar levels and rosters. Team flexibility - This was a new release, so I generally used my best team all the time. But with the scaling in place I could definitely have taken more time and used boosted 3* and 4* without always relying on the same 5 characters.There are still improvements that can be made. Here are a couple of thoughts. Release cl9 and cl10 - I don't begrudge lower level rosters their rewards. Adding the two new cl's will provide an additional challenge for those people interested, as well as allow the player base to spread out more appropriately. Stop the Grind - With faster clears, I don't want to now have to grind the 3 point node for 20 minutes to place well. You gave us that time back, don't take it away. With low scaling and a Thanos you can best optimal players by grinding the last node. Fix it by adding 10-20 base levels to the enemies after the 6th or 7th clear every match. This way, you can hit the node a few extra times, but eventually it isn't worth the effort. I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense.
sh81 said: broll said: sh81 said: I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all. I also find your resistance to making the whole structure fairer to all strange. What you are arguing for is not making it fairer for all and instead holding onto your advantage with the current system (and release rewards at a level that we all know the devs consider unrealistic).It reads as though you have had it tough, and would rather the shoe be on the other foot and others suffer, rather than the game just improve for all.I dont know if thats your motivation, but thats what Im seeing.If we were building this game from the ground up, blank paper, lets just set this thing up... It would end up more similar to what I propose than what it is or what the test looks like.Its structured, and fair at all levels, and accomodates all.
broll said: sh81 said: I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all. I also find your resistance to making the whole structure fairer to all strange. What you are arguing for is not making it fairer for all and instead holding onto your advantage with the current system (and release rewards at a level that we all know the devs consider unrealistic).