Keep this Scaling!

broll

sh81 said:

Should I go to SCL6?  Where scaling is trivial for me, and the rewards are too?  Or should I flog myself in 7 but to no avail thanks to the bigger rosters locking it out?

It's not no avail.  Other players have no factor on your ability to get progression rewards and the 4* there.  You'll get 2-3 3* rewards from placement that will also feed your 4*s eventually.  

NewMcG

sh81 said:

I play PVE, its my game, primarily what I do with mpq.  It should be enough to sustain my development, particularly when it demands near 3hrs a day from me.

So you're making the choice to focus on one portion of the game. Others play more parts, and will progress faster, because they're putting the time and effort in. I'm mostly PVE as well, and dabble in PVP for whatever progression rewards I can muster. People playing competitive PVP will progress significantly faster than me, and the fact that everyone's roster is built from all portions means they'll then be able to play all portions of the game a little easier. 

That isn't unfair, that's exactly fair. What's been unfair is that for years, the best rosters have had to deal with insane, exponentially-more-punishing scaling because of the audacity they had to roster and level up the best characters in the game. I have a decent 4* roster. Current scaling puts me somewhere between 7 and 8 in the fixed scaling levels, at around 330s or so on the high end. I could have slogged through 8, but I dropped down to 7, and my clears took about half an hour. If you want to reclaim some of the "3 hours a day" that is "demanded" of you, once fixed scaling becomes the norm, drop a tier or two, and you'll have a decent chunk of extra time to do whatever you'd like. You should still be able to pull 3* rewards with relative ease, (which believe it or not, do make your roster stronger) but with far less of a time investment. If you still want to play at higher levels and make PVE a 3 hour a day ordeal at that point, well, that's your choice. But at least you'll have the option to make life easier on yourself. That option doesn't exist the way things are right now.

NewMcG

sh81 said:

As it stands the system is set against 5* rosters and leveling players.  Put SCL scaling in as has been tested and that just flips so that it works great for 5*s and nobody else.  On balance of the two the former has to be preferable, if only because it would represent the vast majority, BUT the solution I propose negates the downsides entirely.

Yes, except your "solution" isn't realistic. You're asking them to basically bump the rewards down two full levels, and then start throwing out more covers hand over fist, including 5* (which have never been handed out in such a way). Yes, that sounds great, because there's literally not a single player who would say "I don't want more stuff for the exact same thing I'm doing". But from the other side of things, what are the chances of the devs suddenly opening to floodgates of rewards just for the sake of... kindness? Unless the entire flow of covers within the ecosystem gets changed, that degree of increased assets within the game economy just isn't happening.

(Also, it isn't just 5* players reaping benefits. I'm pretty squarely in the 4* realm, and in the test runs, dropping to SCL 7 shaved an hour off each set of clears. I'm sure I'm not alone in that situation.) 

Lukoil

Actually there is a lot of 4* covers right now. By that i mean CP rewards.

The only thing that stops progress for me is ISO.
Groot and Gamora- almost fully covered already (i finished groot and gamora PVE in top 100) but i could not level them because i am lacking ISO.

Bowgentle

sh81 said:

3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time.  2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token.  I dont believe they make my roster stronger.

Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there.  However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development.  CP and LT and Covers are.

So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.


With these changes why does it have to be either/or?  Why not both?

Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?

And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?

This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.

Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance!

There's 5 LTS in every 3* plus a ton of CP.
Yes, champ levels on your 3s WILL develop your roster faster than you think.
Why do you think are 5* players building dupes of their 3s?
It's not the HP for sure.

Fightmastermpq

sh81 said:

If you are looking to 3* champ rewards as supporting my 4* transition, sorry but I think that is scraping the barrel.

It is most certainly to no avail.  I do not advance, and most definitely no where near fights pace of rostering, leveling and champing 4*s before they rotate out.

And no, I do not expect to keep pace with him, BUT, it shouldnt be unrealistic for me to want to get 4s rostered and useable, if not fully covered.  That doesnt happen from SCL6.


I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all.

Im an advocate of SCL scaling, I have not once said its a bad thing - only that I believe to successfully filter people to appropriate levels the rewards should be such that it works for everybody.

As it stands the system is set against 5* rosters and leveling players.  Put SCL scaling in as has been tested and that just flips so that it works great for 5*s and nobody else.  On balance of the two the former has to be preferable, if only because it would represent the vast majority, BUT the solution I propose negates the downsides entirely.

Introduce SCL scaling (though not at the levels tested, SCL8 is too low)
Re work the rewards structure so that at every level you build your roster appropriate to the next level.

Simple as that.  Where ever you land in there you have clear progress to the next level if you play consistently.  Perfect.

And yet, we are up to page 6 of people telling me this is wrong and as it is is somehow preferable.

You misunderstand me.  You are already at the pace of rostering, leveling, and champing 4s before they rotate out.  I'm at the pace of MAX champing 4s before they rotate out.  I'm talking over 100 champ levels for each 4* in 36 weeks.  That's what my earn rate gets me.  I don't need "more fair" rewards.  The SCL8 rewards are very fair in that they allow this to happen.  It won't happen for everyone - nor should it.  But that it CAN happen for some high end players says that it is fair.

I made a thread because no one seems to understand how quickly they earn 4* covers, or believes how quickly high end play is capable of earning them, but I promise you that they are out there.  All those CP and Heroic tokens you get from 3* champ rewards, the 4* covers, and LTs.......that all adds up over time.  Especially when you get all the 3s and all 12 of the newest 4s champed.

It will take time to get to this point though, and you will be rewarded then.  You should not be rewarded now just because you haven't yet put in the time to get there.

PorkBelly

Starfury said:

If I may add something:

Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.
As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.

Were you around when they made those nodes much harder on a previous PVE test?  It sucked.

l'll take the easy ISO, thanks.

MissChinch

DarthDeVo said:

westnyy2 said:

I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that.

On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far.

Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.

While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. 

I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). 

Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. 

I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall.

In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? (EDIT: I was wrong, SCL 6 requires a rank of 27 to enter; my overall point still stands, though.) Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?

If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8.

@Darth You described a nearly identical roster to mine (rank 86, 12 4* champ, but no 5*s fully covered) 

It might just be bracket luck, but without sniping I found SCL7 to be easier than roster based scaling at SL8...  However a good finish for me is t10, I have rarely gotten t5, and only t1 maybe twice via bracket sniping which I stopped trying for...

We would progress just fine with SCL7 t50, but if you wanted a guaranteed additional 4* SCL8 is doable and we get that extra 4* via progression I believe.

Sounds like you got some bad luck with the competitiveness of your bracket even given that it was a new release...  For reference I was doing my initial clear (4x each node, node by node starting with most points first) in ~45 minutes and the final clear (3x each node) about 5 minutes faster than the initial clear....

I'm all for the abandoning of roster based scaling, at this point only tweaks to reward and level are necessary...

Nepenthe

sh81 said:

Bowgentle said:

sh81 said:

3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time.  2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token.  I dont believe they make my roster stronger.

Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there.  However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development.  CP and LT and Covers are.

So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.


With these changes why does it have to be either/or?  Why not both?

Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?

And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?

This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.

Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance!

There's 5 LTS in every 3* plus a ton of CP.
Yes, champ levels on your 3s WILL develop your roster faster than you think.
Why do you think are 5* players building dupes of their 3s?
It's not the HP for sure.

ISO, predominantly.  That and the fact it sucks to throw away resources in a game so dependent on them.

The majority of the big rewards are back loaded.  Im on day 864, I collect 3s like nothing else.  Have them all rostered, all champed bar starlord and not one max covered. 242 being my highest, and only now am I getting to the good stuff in there.

Of course its not true that there is no use, but in the scheme of things its minor.  Its really not somethng that makes a tangible difference day to day.  Rather a tiny incremental difference over time.

It's not for iso. Champing a dupe is a mild iso loss, though the xp may work out to be a slight iso gain, depending on your SR, if you're not already at 135. 5 LTs per champ is huge though, and the very first champ reward is an LT.

Fightmastermpq

sh81 said:

Bowgentle said:

sh81 said:

3* champ rewards equate to ISO 90% of the time.  2 4* covers (if you eventually get your 3s high enough) and if you are extremely lucky a 4* pull from a heroic token.  I dont believe they make my roster stronger.

Yes - pedant alert - the hp helps buy slots, the iso helps level players - no need to go there.  However, it is neither tangible nor meaningful progress in 4* development.  CP and LT and Covers are.

So, Ill maintain, the rewards are insufficient to develop in a meaningful way.


With these changes why does it have to be either/or?  Why not both?

Why is it in fixing a problem for 5* players you cannot look at making the experience better for all?

And why are people so committed to the current reward structure, when it is clearly geared towards a time when 4*s were then what 5*s are now?

This is probably the strangest conversation Ive ever had on here.

Promote a catch all solution, that is genuinely not even that radfical, and get nothing but resistance!

There's 5 LTS in every 3* plus a ton of CP.
Yes, champ levels on your 3s WILL develop your roster faster than you think.
Why do you think are 5* players building dupes of their 3s?
It's not the HP for sure.

ISO, predominantly.  That and the fact it sucks to throw away resources in a game so dependent on them.

The majority of the big rewards are back loaded.  Im on day 864, I collect 3s like nothing else.  Have them all rostered, all champed bar starlord and not one max covered. 242 being my highest, and only now am I getting to the good stuff in there.

Of course its not true that there is no use, but in the scheme of things its minor.  Its really not somethng that makes a tangible difference day to day.  Rather a tiny incremental difference over time.

I very strongly disagree with this.  As those 3* champ levels start rolling in the chain reaction of rewards to follow definitely does make a big difference.  I'm telling you, go a week or two or better yet a full season without opening ANYTHING, then pull everything at once and track everything that comes in.  You'll be shocked.  Be sure you take note of how many times you have to keep going back to that Legendary and Heroic token screen to open subsequent rewards.

Milk Jugz

I've just caught up on this thread and have to chime in. I like most of what sh81 has been saying (much more than the actual likes I gave him, sorry sh81 I might go back and throw some more your way but that feels a little tedious after reading everything). I also like most of what fightmaster is saying also, same problem again sorry.

From my personal experience with this last test I finished #14 in CL8, I always choose 8 and am probably not gonna drop down ever. I ran boosted Blade and Nova with my 420 3/3/5 Phoenix (strike tiles for days!!!!!!). My scaling was actually about the same, maybe 15 levels higher than normal. But my clears felt insanely fast. I was doing end grinds and initial clears on the subs in about 1.5 hours (pretty much split 50/50- 45 min for end grind/ 45 minutes for initial clear). It was awesome, I put in less effort for more rewards!! I usually struggle to hit t100 in new release events, this time I was in the middle of high level 5* rosters with my one not champed 5* and my 2 boosted 4*s I don't really know how to clarify my roster I have a few undercovered 5*s that I've leveled up and 26, soon to be 27, champ 4*s. So the 3*-4*-5* transition?? IDK/C, whatever you guys want to call it.

I do agree with sh81 that placement rewards need to be more appropriate for the rosters competing. I really think that D3 needs to get off their high horse with the 5* and start rewarding them in placement, they just aren't as special now that there are 16 as they were when there were only 2-3. The fix needs to be to open CL9 and 10.

The structure should follow something like this:

SCL 1: 1*-2* transition- should reward 2* 1-200 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 2: 2* roster- should reward 2* 1-500 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 3: 2*-3* transition- should reward 3* 1-50 (varying #s), 2* 51-500 (varying #s), tokens (S and/or E) to the rest
SCL 4: Early 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-150 (varying #s), 2* 151-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 5: Late 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-300 (varying #s), 2* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 6: 3*-4* transition- should reward 4* 1-25 (varying #s), 3* 26-400 (varying #s), 2* 401-750 (varying #s), tokens (E and/or H) to the rest
SCL 7: Early 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-100 (varying #s), 3* 101-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 8: Late 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 9: 4*-5* transition- should reward 5* 1-10 (just 1 cover), 4* 11-300 (varying #s), 3* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 10: 5* roster- should reward 5* 1-50 (just 1 cover, but the top 10 also get a LT), 4* 51-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-750 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest

By varying #s, I mean 3 covers for the upper thresholds to 1 cover for the lower thresholds. Maybe at the bottom of each SCL like 751-1000 could be just iso in varying amounts increasing as the CL goes up. HP could be a throw in reward at any threshold in varying amounts.

I, also, think that if scaling remains tied to CL there needs to be a maximum rank to enter as well as a minimum. And I think there needs to be a better way to quantify roster strength, there are just too many ways to earn xp that have nothing to do with building your roster.

broll

sh81 said:

I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all.

I also find your resistance to making the whole structure fairer to all strange.  What you are arguing for is not making it fairer for all and instead holding onto your advantage with the current system (and release rewards at a level that we all know the devs consider unrealistic).

broll

Milk Jugz said:

SCL 1: 1*-2* transition- should reward 2* 1-200 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 2: 2* roster- should reward 2* 1-500 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 3: 2*-3* transition- should reward 3* 1-50 (varying #s), 2* 51-500 (varying #s), tokens (S and/or E) to the rest
SCL 4: Early 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-150 (varying #s), 2* 151-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 5: Late 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-300 (varying #s), 2* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 6: 3*-4* transition- should reward 4* 1-25 (varying #s), 3* 26-400 (varying #s), 2* 401-750 (varying #s), tokens (E and/or H) to the rest
SCL 7: Early 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-100 (varying #s), 3* 101-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 8: Late 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 9: 4*-5* transition- should reward 5* 1-10 (just 1 cover), 4* 11-300 (varying #s), 3* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 10: 5* roster- should reward 5* 1-50 (just 1 cover, but the top 10 also get a LT), 4* 51-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-750 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest

You rewards are unrealistically generous to the point of being game breaking, but your expectations on where people should fall in SCLs is pretty close if not perfect.  The only thing I would change on that is I'd probably say SCL 10 should be a mega whale area scaling for 550 5* teams.  I'm not sure there would be enough people to finish out those brackets or not, but if there is that should probably be a thing, otherwise this your spread is great

Milk Jugz

broll said:

Milk Jugz said:

SCL 1: 1*-2* transition- should reward 2* 1-200 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 2: 2* roster- should reward 2* 1-500 (varying #s), 1* and/or tokens (S) to the rest
SCL 3: 2*-3* transition- should reward 3* 1-50 (varying #s), 2* 51-500 (varying #s), tokens (S and/or E) to the rest
SCL 4: Early 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-150 (varying #s), 2* 151-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 5: Late 3* roster- should reward 3* 1-300 (varying #s), 2* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (E) to the rest
SCL 6: 3*-4* transition- should reward 4* 1-25 (varying #s), 3* 26-400 (varying #s), 2* 401-750 (varying #s), tokens (E and/or H) to the rest
SCL 7: Early 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-100 (varying #s), 3* 101-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 8: Late 4* roster- should reward 4* 1-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 9: 4*-5* transition- should reward 5* 1-10 (just 1 cover), 4* 11-300 (varying #s), 3* 301-500 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest
SCL 10: 5* roster- should reward 5* 1-50 (just 1 cover, but the top 10 also get a LT), 4* 51-250 (varying #s), 3* 251-750 (varying #s), tokens (H) to the rest

You rewards are unrealistically generous to the point of being game breaking, but your expectations on where people should fall in SCLs is pretty close if not perfect.  The only thing I would change on that is I'd probably say SCL 10 should be a mega whale area scaling for 550 5* teams.  I'm not sure there would be enough people to finish out those brackets or not, but if there is that should probably be a thing, otherwise this your spread is great

Thank you!! I can bend on the numbers, that took a long time to write out and I adjusted it numerous times. I won't bend on my belief the top 10 in SCL 10 should get a LT with their cover though. I think at some point we should be rewarded for putting in the time, effort, and in most cases, money to get to that point. (That is my prize for the mega whales). I don't think we should ultimately worry about the brackets filling, they will eventually. If you build it they will come mentality i guess.....


EDIT: I stole your signature idea, thank you for that too!!!

SpringSoldier

I disagree that cp and 4* covers are the only things important for a 3* to 4* transition. I want and need hp even more than cp, so I can get all 2*, 3* and 4* (at least one cover each), so I'm not locked out of essential nodes and so that I can have a decent farm (and because I love hoarding!). SCL7 offers less hp than SCL8. I need hp just as much as a vet with maxed out champs that wants to rooster duplicates. If lower levels offered more hp, I'd go for them rather than the cp.

(I know I can buy hp, but I really can't afford anything more than VIP or Agency Expenses once a month, so it's out of the question)

MissChinch

I think this discussion is starting to completely loose sight of the progression rewards, and that in order for a given SCL to be valuable you don't need to finish with high placement...

A 3->4 transitioner can hit progression on SCL7 easily and can make progression on SCL8 if they have the right combination of 4*s.  Even if SCL7 becomes flooded with 100s of 5* champion rosters hellbent on squeezing all other rosters out of placement rewards, the transitioner easily makes enough resources to strengthen their roster significantly faster than new characters are coming out.  The same is true for a roster with 25+ 4* champions. 

Placement rewards are not necessary for substantial progress, and I'd take t500 in SCL8 with hitting progression over fighting for t1 in SL6 anyday.

Personally this change in scaling will amount to me getting slightly less resources, but still being far ahead of the release schedule, while at the same time saving hours a day by dropping to SCL7 and rushing through clears with lower level opponents.  I'm rank 86 with 12 4* champions, all 5*s sitting unleveled.

NewMcG

sh81 said:

And, frankly, the rewards really arent that unrealistic.  They are essentially one tick up on where they are now.  Im not asking for LTs for every node clear am I?  And yet that seems to be how you are reading my posts.

Currently, the game gives out 4* for placement to the top 10 of the top few SCLs. You are proposing that they now give out 4* placement rewards down to SCL 4, and in quantities there that are greater than the current highest SCL. And then you're adding on 5* covers as placement rewards, which is a thing that has never happened, and putting them in not just one, but the top 3 SCLs.

If you think expanding the highest currently-awarded covers (4*) down to below the halfway mark of available SCLs is "one tick up", I would love for you to be my boss when it comes time for determining a "minor pay raise".

DarthDeVo

MissChinch said:

DarthDeVo said:

westnyy2 said:

I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that.

On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far.

Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.

While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. 

I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). 

Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. 

I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall.

In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? (EDIT: I was wrong, SCL 6 requires a rank of 27 to enter; my overall point still stands, though.) Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?

If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8.

@Darth You described a nearly identical roster to mine (rank 86, 12 4* champ, but no 5*s fully covered) 

It might just be bracket luck, but without sniping I found SCL7 to be easier than roster based scaling at SL8...  However a good finish for me is t10, I have rarely gotten t5, and only t1 maybe twice via bracket sniping which I stopped trying for...

We would progress just fine with SCL7 t50, but if you wanted a guaranteed additional 4* SCL8 is doable and we get that extra 4* via progression I believe.

Sounds like you got some bad luck with the competitiveness of your bracket even given that it was a new release...  For reference I was doing my initial clear (4x each node, node by node starting with most points first) in ~45 minutes and the final clear (3x each node) about 5 minutes faster than the initial clear....

I'm all for the abandoning of roster based scaling, at this point only tweaks to reward and level are necessary...

Oh, I posted on the Worst Moment of the Day thread after my bad luck with bracket flipping. I was starting to nod off waiting for a flip. I figured I should just go for it and deal with my placement rather than risk falling asleep trying to complete my initial clear. I can't remember exactly what time I joined (maybe a little over an hour after Slice 4 started, hour and fifteen minutes or so) and I started in 1,000th place. I literally could not have had worse timing, LOL.

In terms of scaling, yes, SCL 7 was easier and therefore a little faster. It took me about as long as it took you (maybe about five minutes longer or so at each stage), but that netted me an initial finish right around the 30th place mark in each sub and somewhere in the teens/20s overall at the end. It's hard to compete when guys with champed 5*s are doing their initial clear and final grinds somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 minutes each. I finished in 24th place overall.

I realize I did say that much of progress comes from T10 or T5. That was probably overstated. My main progress obviously comes from LT/CP pulls, but I would argue a significant amount of progress has also come from placement rewards in PvE. I'll put it this way, if you were somehow able to remove the covers I obtained through said rewards, I'd wager my roster would look very different than it does right now.

I also am still not reliably able to hit 900 in PvP, at least not in a manner that makes it feel like it's worth my time and energy. Getting to 575 is no issue; going past the 700-800 mark feels like it's one step forward, two steps back and is typically more frustrating than it's worth. I don't even bother unless I have at least one or two decent 4*s boosted, which is still the exception rather than the rule. And 4* placement rewards may as well not even exist for me in PvP.

So really, if the PvE placement rewards were to become also not viable, that would severely dampen my desire to play the game. Not saying I'd quit outright right away, but it would definitely move me that direction.

I, too, don't understand the flak @sh81 is getting, because we're pretty much on the same page. Open up CL 9 and 10 so the 5*s can play amongst themselves and let the rest of us transition from 3* to 4* and 4* to 5*. About the only thing I see as being unrealistic is his proposed reward structure. While I'd love to see the game be that generous with rewards, history has shown that to not be the case. Hope springs eternal, but I'd be really surprised if they were ever that generous.

I don't disagree with his underlying supposition though, that the rewards still treat 4*s like they're the cream of the crop, when that isn't the case these days. One idea I had was that, perhaps rather than rewarding 5* characters in SCL 9 and 10 (although I think that should happen for T5 at least), maybe reward vaulted 4* covers along with the featured 4* character. I have a feeling that if they offered a way to cover those vaulted characters or add champ levels to them, it would incentivize people to playing in higher SCLs.

ZeroKarma

Alsmir said:

ZeroKarma said:

I seriously enjoyed this PvE, and my ally mates were exceptionally positive as well. The key items:

Quality of life improvement - I typically cleared cl8 in 20-25 minutes to start each sub and the final grind was a little bit less. With standard scaling, I'm looking at double that at the very least
No Dark Avengers! - They're not hard, they're just annoying. Level 455 Moonstone/Rags/Venom just takes forever to kill and it isn't enjoyable 4-7 times in a row.
Level playing field - Not everyone will be happy with this. Last event I was beaten by two people, each with a lvl 270 Blade as their highest character. I have 10 champed 5* and I guarantee that my enemies were double theirs. This event my top competitors were at similar levels and rosters.
Team flexibility - This was a new release, so I generally used my best team all the time. But with the scaling in place I could definitely have taken more time and used boosted 3* and 4* without always relying on the same 5 characters.

There are still improvements that can be made. Here are a couple of thoughts.

Release cl9 and cl10 - I don't begrudge lower level rosters their rewards. Adding the two new cl's will provide an additional challenge for those people interested, as well as allow the player base to spread out more appropriately.
Stop the Grind - With faster clears, I don't want to now have to grind the 3 point node for 20 minutes to place well. You gave us that time back, don't take it away. With low scaling and a Thanos you can best optimal players by grinding the last node. Fix it by adding 10-20 base levels to the enemies after the 6th or 7th clear every match. This way, you can hit the node a few extra times, but eventually it isn't worth the effort.

I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense.

QoL improvement - only for 5* players, as a transitioner to 4* land I was pretty much locked out of CL8

Level playing field - good joke, so you have it easier, but it's much harder for others, is that level playing field? Do you need a dictionary or something?

Team flexibility - yet, I'm still forced to use my best team over and over again. Fair as hell.

Basically, yet another: "It's easier for me - it's fair. It's worse for others - I don't care, shut up." post.
What is it with this game and people who can't use their brains?

Wow. I posted my thoughts and how it applied to me. There has been a lot of good discussion and as I mentioned they need to open Cl9 and Cl10 so that I can move up there and we can further spread out.

For people that know me, I have finished T2 in every new character release I have had time for. This test didn't result in rewards being taken away from anyone in my bracket, but it did make my time commitment much less and the same for many others that I talked to, and can't we all agree that is a positive thing for everyone.

Take a sec and be constructive. Provide a suggestion. But the status quo kinda sucks for everyone in this thread. Adjustments need to be made, sure. Added clearance levels, removal of grinding nodes endlessly as Rhycar mentioned, and tiering rewards based on what players really need at their respective levels. 

Past history has shown that when the devs roll something like this out it is almost definitely going to hit, but it may be tweaked in several ways. It will happen, so hopefully the feedback in here and in other threads will make it something that we all can enjoy.

broll

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

I find it incredibly strange that I am seeing so much resistance to the idea of making the whole structure fairer to all.

I also find your resistance to making the whole structure fairer to all strange.  What you are arguing for is not making it fairer for all and instead holding onto your advantage with the current system (and release rewards at a level that we all know the devs consider unrealistic).

It reads as though you have had it tough, and would rather the shoe be on the other foot and others suffer, rather than the game just improve for all.

I dont know if thats your motivation, but thats what Im seeing.

If we were building this game from the ground up, blank paper, lets just set this thing up...  It would end up more similar to what I propose than what it is or what the test looks like.

Its structured, and fair at all levels, and accomodates all.

I haven't had it rough. I'm a newer player (1.5 years) who just went through 3*-4* progression that you are now.  The way the game is now favors people in the middle and hurts people at both ends (per-3* and 5*).  The new system makes it better for all levels. I'm sorry you can't see that but I can't explain it any clearer than I already have...