sh81 said: broll said: sh81 said: I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.Under test conditions Ive been no where near.As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling. As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community? You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens. I think what I "should" get is far more personal opinion than factual. I know Ive always worked very hard to get what I have, and I resent being told I dont deserve that.Fact is, I worked up to a point of knocking on the T10 door, and under test conditions am thrown way down the rankings.In real terms, playing under test conditions puts me back to around a year ago. Back then, before champing 4*s, I was hitting top 50 but it was always in the 30-40's.As I champed more 4*s I went up the rankings. A year later Im a 10-20 player, sometimes getting T10.Its been slow and steady progress, which to my mind is perfectly reasonable. SCL scaling pulls the rug from under me.I do agree with you that the time dependency is ridiculous. As is the time demand. I really hate being forced to play for 90+ mintues at a certain time every day and would remove that demand in a heartbeat.Im not sure I agree that placement rewards should be removed. I like the competition, I think that edge adds something to the game. However, I would be very happy for the majority of rewards to be in progression with placement rewards as a bonus.I put this in another thread, but it seems fair to put it here to illustrate where Id like things to end up:Assuming people leave the prologue getting into a 2* level, why notSCL 1 = 2* level game. Lots of 2* rewards. Top players earning 3*.SCL 2 = 2-3* transition. Still plenty of 2* rewards and more 3* to the top 50.SCL 3 = 3*. 3* Rewards readily offered.SCL 4 = 3*-4* transition. 4* covers to the top 20, 3* to top 100SCL 5 = 4*. 4* Covers to top 50.SCL 6 = 4-5* transition. 5* Covers to top 10, multi 4* top 20, 4* top 50.SCL 7 = 5* gameSCL 8 = Room to manouvre. Super 5* game for whales? Potential for 6* rosters?And at ALL levels a healthy amount of HP and ISO. This only works with rewards being appropriate to each level. JUST SCL scaling really doesnt do anyone but 5* rosters any good.
broll said: sh81 said: I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.Under test conditions Ive been no where near.As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling. As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community? You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens.
sh81 said: I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.Under test conditions Ive been no where near.As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling.
animaniactoo said: sh81 said: broll said: sh81 said: I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.Under test conditions Ive been no where near.As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling. As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community? You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens. I think what I "should" get is far more personal opinion than factual. I know Ive always worked very hard to get what I have, and I resent being told I dont deserve that.Fact is, I worked up to a point of knocking on the T10 door, and under test conditions am thrown way down the rankings.In real terms, playing under test conditions puts me back to around a year ago. Back then, before champing 4*s, I was hitting top 50 but it was always in the 30-40's.As I champed more 4*s I went up the rankings. A year later Im a 10-20 player, sometimes getting T10.Its been slow and steady progress, which to my mind is perfectly reasonable. SCL scaling pulls the rug from under me.I do agree with you that the time dependency is ridiculous. As is the time demand. I really hate being forced to play for 90+ mintues at a certain time every day and would remove that demand in a heartbeat.Im not sure I agree that placement rewards should be removed. I like the competition, I think that edge adds something to the game. However, I would be very happy for the majority of rewards to be in progression with placement rewards as a bonus.I put this in another thread, but it seems fair to put it here to illustrate where Id like things to end up:Assuming people leave the prologue getting into a 2* level, why notSCL 1 = 2* level game. Lots of 2* rewards. Top players earning 3*.SCL 2 = 2-3* transition. Still plenty of 2* rewards and more 3* to the top 50.SCL 3 = 3*. 3* Rewards readily offered.SCL 4 = 3*-4* transition. 4* covers to the top 20, 3* to top 100SCL 5 = 4*. 4* Covers to top 50.SCL 6 = 4-5* transition. 5* Covers to top 10, multi 4* top 20, 4* top 50.SCL 7 = 5* gameSCL 8 = Room to manouvre. Super 5* game for whales? Potential for 6* rosters?And at ALL levels a healthy amount of HP and ISO. This only works with rewards being appropriate to each level. JUST SCL scaling really doesnt do anyone but 5* rosters any good. You missed the 1 star game... I think this is more around where it would round out.SCL 1 = 1* level game. Lots of 1-2* rewards. Top players earning 2*.SCL 2 = 1-2* transition. Still plenty of 2* rewards and extra 2* to the top 50.SCL 3 = 2*. 2* Rewards readily offered.SCL 4 = 2*-3* transition. 3* covers to the top 20, 2* to top 100SCL 5 = 3*. 3* Covers to top 50.SCL 6 = 3-4* transition. 4* Covers to top 10, multi 3* top 20, 3* top 50.SCL 7 = 4* game. 4* Covers to top 50.SCL 8 = 4*-5* transition. 5* Covers to top 10, multi 4* top 20, 4* top 50SCL 9 = 5* game. 5* Covers to top 50.SCL 10 = Room to manouvre. Super 5* game for whales? Potential for 6* rosters?
westnyy2 said: I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that. On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far. Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.
sh81 said: Personally I prefer mine, in that there is still room to grow, but thats majoring in the minors. I think the take away is that rewards need to be appropritate to each level.Its no good saying "You should be in SCL5" without that level giving me the rewards to (eventually) grow into SCL6.
Starfury said: If I may add something:Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.
DarthDeVo said: westnyy2 said: I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that. On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far. Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better. While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall. In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8.
Skrofa said: When they first mentioned the scl based scaling there was also talk of it being combined with roster strength as well.Which would be something like Base enemy level 200.+Best 3 characters level 300.=Event scaling something in between.If your best 3 characters are lower then your scaling will also be a bit lower.When they had announced the series of tests this is what I was expecting to see.For the first test, I thought, ok, they want to see how this will go, maybe they'll do the combo on the second test. Well, they didn't.IMHO, something like this would be better because it would provide an equal challenge to all the rosters that would be eligible for the particular scl.What we had at scl8 during these tests were opponent levels that hardly posed a challenge to the 5* rosters but were very challenging for 4* rosters (if they wanted to go for placement).And this is the hardest level of the game at the moment!!!
granne said: Early 3*-4* transitioner here, and I was more than happy with the scaling for this. Maybe I'd feel differently if Blade hadn't been boosted, but either way, I just scraped T20 (19th, for the record) for the first time ever in a release event. I played SCL7, and my clear times were about 25-50% quicker than usual. I think, if the scaling stays like this for future tests, I might try 8 just for the challenge (if the boosted list is kind to me), but otherwise I'm happy to take lesser rewards for far less effort.
Jarvind said: Starfury said: If I may add something:Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time. All of my yes are belong to this. Might as well give us a button that collects all the node rewards that becomes accessible as soon as we join the event. It's not like anyone is ever losing on them.The only thing I can think of that they might be good for is allowing very new players to dip their toe in the water - I know the later nodes scale according to roster, but I think there's a minimum level somewhere. I can remember joining a PVE event way back when I joined and thinking "oh, well, that node's just too hard, not gonna do it." So the trivial nodes would let them at least snatch up the first few progression rewards and get something for placement.
Starfury said: Jarvind said: Starfury said: If I may add something:Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time. All of my yes are belong to this. Might as well give us a button that collects all the node rewards that becomes accessible as soon as we join the event. It's not like anyone is ever losing on them.The only thing I can think of that they might be good for is allowing very new players to dip their toe in the water - I know the later nodes scale according to roster, but I think there's a minimum level somewhere. I can remember joining a PVE event way back when I joined and thinking "oh, well, that node's just too hard, not gonna do it." So the trivial nodes would let them at least snatch up the first few progression rewards and get something for placement. In my memory, they served a purpuse back when getting a new 3* was still an exciting thing. Back then (no idea if that was back during launch or 2 years ago when I started a new account) there were nodes I simply didn't play because they were too hard.But that was a long time ago, in a game countless patches away.
Fightmastermpq said: I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor. If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get. Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years? a long time.
sh81 said: Fightmastermpq said: I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor. If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get. Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years? a long time. broll said:The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back. That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks. I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL. If those rewards unreasonably accelerated a players progress, Id agree.Fact is, they dont.Competing for top 10 in SCL 8, what do you think my haul is?90% of the time its a few 3* covers and some HP. Hardly ground breaking stuff.
broll said:The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back. That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks. I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL.