Keep this Scaling!

ZootSax

westnyy2 said:

If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level.  

All but one of the top 5 in my bracket were champed 5* rosters and I was in SCL6 this event.  4 of the top 10 were 5* champs and the other 6 were developed 4* champs.  There's a limit to how far down the SCL ladder a transitioning 4* roster can realistically drop before it becomes pointless. 

animaniactoo

sh81 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor.  If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get.  Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years?  a long time.

broll said:

The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back.  That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks.  I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL.  

If those rewards unreasonably accelerated a players progress, Id agree.

Fact is, they dont.

Competing for top 10 in SCL 8, what do you think my haul is?

90% of the time its a few 3* covers and some HP.  Hardly ground breaking stuff.

Were I pulling in 4 and 5* hand over fist, and were it the case that at lower SCL the rewards were more "appropriate" I would be in full agreement with you.

Thing is, so far as I see, your argument holds more weight in theory than practice.

The rewards are set up as if 4* are the pinnacle of the game, where only the absolute best should get them.  Its been a long time since that was the game, and yet the rewards havent moved with the times.

I maintain, and have for a long time, moving into 4* is infinitely harder than 3*.  Of course I dont expect it to be easy, but the disparity is far to much.

No... it's important to remember that's where it's at *right now*, while waiting for SCL9 and SCL10.

Sure moving into 4* is harder than moving into 3* - but that's also because it takes so long to get through the 3* land with lots of characters on the roster. There are similar in 4* but even fewer in 5*. It *should* be harder comparatively so that your progress doesn't move so fast that you run out of room to work, that you've banged out rostering and champing all the 4 and 5 star new characters within weeks of release. There's still plenty of 3 star champ levels to add, and so on.

But if they make 5 star the upper reward for SCL8 they're shutting themselves out of available rewards for SCL9 and SCL10.

FWIW, I would bet strong money that opening those brackets is waiting on 2 things:

1) A large enough pool of regular PVE players with strong enough rosters to populate multiple brackets in all slices. Because otherwise what they'd be doing is basically saying "Hey, auto T50 to everybody who makes it into the second bracket 3 hours after the slice opens because there aren't enough other players to join, so enjoy the placement rewards for holding out long enough!"

2) Figuring out the balance of how many 4/5 star covers they can give away without breaking the game for people who will now be able to more quickly build their rosters with the far fewer characters available to dole out as rewards in the T100/50/20/10 placement.

revskip

ZootSax said:

westnyy2 said:

If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level.  

All but one of the top 5 in my bracket were champed 5* rosters and I was in SCL6 this event.  4 of the top 10 were 5* champs and the other 6 were developed 4* champs.  There's a limit to how far down the SCL ladder a transitioning 4* roster can realistically drop before it becomes pointless. 

Which is exactly why they should be locking out rarities at the various SCLs.  That would still benefit vets as their characters at the lower rarities will still be higher level but they won't be just taking 5* rosters to SCL 6 to dry up the rewards for rosters that are competing for them  If 5* characters were locked out of every SCL below 8 (and 9 and 10 when they are released) many of those players would stick to 8.  And the ones that didn't could still use their higher leveled 4* (or 3* if they drop far enough) characters to have an edge.  The edge in match damage that 5*s provide is just too much to overcome with better timing / grinding.  

animaniactoo

revskip said:

ZootSax said:

westnyy2 said:

If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level.  

All but one of the top 5 in my bracket were champed 5* rosters and I was in SCL6 this event.  4 of the top 10 were 5* champs and the other 6 were developed 4* champs.  There's a limit to how far down the SCL ladder a transitioning 4* roster can realistically drop before it becomes pointless. 

Which is exactly why they should be locking out rarities at the various SCLs.  That would still benefit vets as their characters at the lower rarities will still be higher level but they won't be just taking 5* rosters to SCL 6 to dry up the rewards for rosters that are competing for them  If 5* characters were locked out of every SCL below 8 (and 9 and 10 when they are released) many of those players would stick to 8.  And the ones that didn't could still use their higher leveled 4* (or 3* if they drop far enough) characters to have an edge.  The edge in match damage that 5*s provide is just too much to overcome with better timing / grinding.  

I agree with this to some extent, but not to another - because a 5* roster might really want/need the rewards/timing of a lower SCL and shouldn't necessarily be locked out of them.

However, I think there do need to be limits - not being able to drop more than 1 during a release event, a hard limit on the number of times it can be done a month/year, etc.

Also because some 5 stars don't really add much until you've got them much further developed. I have 5 stars on my roster - I've got all but a couple of them rostered. I pretty much can't use any of them. Not well-covered enough, etc. So they're there, but the few times I've tried to use them at all - I've gotten hurt more for using them than they've helped.

broll

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor.  If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get.  Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years?  a long time.

broll said:

The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back.  That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks.  I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL.  

If those rewards unreasonably accelerated a players progress, Id agree.

Fact is, they dont.

Competing for top 10 in SCL 8, what do you think my haul is?

90% of the time its a few 3* covers and some HP.  Hardly ground breaking stuff.

So you're saying your arguing about losing trivial rewards?  How does that help your argument?  If anything that tells me, you're right you shouldn't be so upset about losing them then.  

Im arguing that the best I get isnt really good enough, and Id be set to lose out on even that.

You seem to be arguing that I should be grateful for the amazing SCL8 rewards is if they are somehow offering me a huge benefit.

My argument had nothing to do with the quality of the rewards, but the absurdity that a 3* > 4* transition places 10th in every event in the highest difficulty bracket.  You say you like competition, that's not competition, that's charity.  As Fight said the game has been fixed in your favor for a long time and they are trying to fix that.  You're punching way above your weight limit right now and you'll have to accept backing to the right level and winning or fighting with the big boys and no fairing as well, or that the game isn't for you.

Edit: It's possible that the rewards are so poor because of this imbalance and they can actually make the rewards more appropriate to the players getting them when they have the player playing/placing in more realistic levels to their rosters.

revskip

animaniactoo said:

revskip said:

ZootSax said:

westnyy2 said:

If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level.  

All but one of the top 5 in my bracket were champed 5* rosters and I was in SCL6 this event.  4 of the top 10 were 5* champs and the other 6 were developed 4* champs.  There's a limit to how far down the SCL ladder a transitioning 4* roster can realistically drop before it becomes pointless. 

Which is exactly why they should be locking out rarities at the various SCLs.  That would still benefit vets as their characters at the lower rarities will still be higher level but they won't be just taking 5* rosters to SCL 6 to dry up the rewards for rosters that are competing for them  If 5* characters were locked out of every SCL below 8 (and 9 and 10 when they are released) many of those players would stick to 8.  And the ones that didn't could still use their higher leveled 4* (or 3* if they drop far enough) characters to have an edge.  The edge in match damage that 5*s provide is just too much to overcome with better timing / grinding.  

I agree with this to some extent, but not to another - because a 5* roster might really want/need the rewards/timing of a lower SCL and shouldn't necessarily be locked out of them.

However, I think there do need to be limits - not being able to drop more than 1 during a release event, a hard limit on the number of times it can be done a month/year, etc.

Also because some 5 stars don't really add much until you've got them much further developed. I have 5 stars on my roster - I've got all but a couple of them rostered. I pretty much can't use any of them. Not well-covered enough, etc. So they're there, but the few times I've tried to use them at all - I've gotten hurt more for using them than they've helped.

I don't mean locking out players who have 5*s.  I just mean locking the actual 5* characters out.  A person with twelve 5* champs could absolutely still drop down to whatever SCL they want.  They just wouldn't have the 5*s available to them in those lower SCLs.  Same thing with 4*s.  

In fact it would actually be great for people who get bored with using the same few characters over and over.  If you wanted to drop down to SCL 6 for example you would only be using 3*s (with the exception of the 4* essential).  Vets would retain their advantage because they would most likely still have higher level 3*s but the gulf would be much smaller.  

broll

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor.  If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get.  Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years?  a long time.

broll said:

The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back.  That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks.  I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL.  

If those rewards unreasonably accelerated a players progress, Id agree.

Fact is, they dont.

Competing for top 10 in SCL 8, what do you think my haul is?

90% of the time its a few 3* covers and some HP.  Hardly ground breaking stuff.

So you're saying your arguing about losing trivial rewards?  How does that help your argument?  If anything that tells me, you're right you shouldn't be so upset about losing them then.  

Im arguing that the best I get isnt really good enough, and Id be set to lose out on even that.

You seem to be arguing that I should be grateful for the amazing SCL8 rewards is if they are somehow offering me a huge benefit.

My argument had nothing to do with the quality of the rewards, but the absurdity that a 3* > 4* transition places 10th in every event in the highest difficulty bracket.  You say you like competition, that's not competition, that's charity.  As Fight said the game has been fixed in your favor for a long time and they are trying to fix that.  You're punching way above your weight limit right now and you'll have to accept backing to the right level and winning or fighting with the big boys and no fairing as well, or that the game isn't for you.

Like I said to you, in theory I really dont disagree.

However, in practice I find it impossible to reconcile that theory, the progress/rewards Ive made, and the idea its somehow charitable to me.  It certainly doesnt seem rigged in my favour, thats hilarious.  Personally I find that 3-4* transition to be almost deliberately hard so as to stall play (though to be fair with added CP rewards it is improving).

Lets be clear - I said I compete for top 10 - I actually rarely place there.

Outside of that, my point is not even on the "fairness" of it.  I compete there because its the only place worth competing, if I dont compete there what possible progress will I make?


Again - for clarity - were the rewards appropriate at each level I would have no issue dropping down to play lower.  If 8 is for the top dogs and Im "supposed" to be in 6 thats absolutely fine - so long as playing at 6 enables me to develop and eventually push into 7...

..that simply is not the case right now.


And, again, for clarity, this isnt a "woe is me" sob story - this applies at all levels.  I think 5* players will also not be getting what they should rightfully earn.  And at no point is this with an eye to the game being easy, or fast.  Rather a game that offers clear and genuine progress if you put the effort in.

Rewards are a problem and have been since I've played to varying degrees.  I don't disagree with that.  But don't throw the baby out with the bath water.  If they got the levels set right and then came back and made SCL6 rewards better to match who was there fine.

Also I can't imagine as a 3* > 4* transitioner you'll be in SCL6 long.  SCL7 seems doable for that level, but might be reliant on you having a few of the boosted 4* which will come as your roster widens, which is easier now than before with vaulting and them focusing vaulted characters as required.

Starfury

I completely understand 3* (and early 4* players) being unhappy about this change.

For years, they had access to the same progression and placement rewards as anyone else if they were willing to put in the time. The change as it looks now is going to make PvE objectively worse for them.

I certainly don't think they are acting out of a sense of entitlement if they don't want to be worse off after a change than before. Anyone who was ever up in arms because of a nerf to one of their favorite characters should be able to understand that sentiment.


As I see it, noone actually dislikes the idea of fixed scaling (and the perspective of your roster growth actually resulting in easier fights) All people are unhappy about is if they're pushed down the reward ladder.

So the devs now have the option of releasing this as-is and getting the usual mixed reaction, or they can combine this change with a rework of SCL rewards (or the opening of higher SCL) and get maybe the first universally lauded change of 2017

Beer40

revskip said:

animaniactoo said:

revskip said:

ZootSax said:

westnyy2 said:

If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level.  

All but one of the top 5 in my bracket were champed 5* rosters and I was in SCL6 this event.  4 of the top 10 were 5* champs and the other 6 were developed 4* champs.  There's a limit to how far down the SCL ladder a transitioning 4* roster can realistically drop before it becomes pointless. 

Which is exactly why they should be locking out rarities at the various SCLs.  That would still benefit vets as their characters at the lower rarities will still be higher level but they won't be just taking 5* rosters to SCL 6 to dry up the rewards for rosters that are competing for them  If 5* characters were locked out of every SCL below 8 (and 9 and 10 when they are released) many of those players would stick to 8.  And the ones that didn't could still use their higher leveled 4* (or 3* if they drop far enough) characters to have an edge.  The edge in match damage that 5*s provide is just too much to overcome with better timing / grinding.  

I agree with this to some extent, but not to another - because a 5* roster might really want/need the rewards/timing of a lower SCL and shouldn't necessarily be locked out of them.

However, I think there do need to be limits - not being able to drop more than 1 during a release event, a hard limit on the number of times it can be done a month/year, etc.

Also because some 5 stars don't really add much until you've got them much further developed. I have 5 stars on my roster - I've got all but a couple of them rostered. I pretty much can't use any of them. Not well-covered enough, etc. So they're there, but the few times I've tried to use them at all - I've gotten hurt more for using them than they've helped.

I don't mean locking out players who have 5*s.  I just mean locking the actual 5* characters out.  A person with twelve 5* champs could absolutely still drop down to whatever SCL they want.  They just wouldn't have the 5*s available to them in those lower SCLs.  Same thing with 4*s.  

In fact it would actually be great for people who get bored with using the same few characters over and over.  If you wanted to drop down to SCL 6 for example you would only be using 3*s (with the exception of the 4* essential).  Vets would retain their advantage because they would most likely still have higher level 3*s but the gulf would be much smaller.  

The top rosters probably are the tops at every level. So they're probably winning at SCL7 and 6, just like they are in the test, but it will "look" different. So by locking out certain * tiers we are just being limited in our choices to build a 3 person team among the * tiers.

Its just my opinion, but taking away who we can choose to play with is a terrible idea. That's exactly what a lot of 5* players are complaining about right now. And a big complaint of Vaulting. And a big complaint of the Heroic PVEs. Short answer: Most everyone complains about this in one way or another.

smkspy

Placement rewards absolutely need an update. It makes zero sense that the only difference between finishing top 21-50 versus top 51-100 is only 500 iso. 

animaniactoo

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

broll said:

sh81 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

I think everyone would agree that the devs make mistakes, but what everyone seems to be struggling with is that the PvE/SCL/Clearnace Rank structure was a mistake that they made in your favor.  If the scaling in the test was too hard for you, you were getting rewards that you were never intended to get.  Don't think of these rewards as being taken away from you, think of them as being given to you underservingly for the past......year? 2 years?  a long time.

broll said:

The problem here is once somethings been given, it's hard to take it back.  That's why I was so mad when then made the original SCLs open to such low ranks.  I knew this battle would come eventually if they made the difficulty based on SCL.  

If those rewards unreasonably accelerated a players progress, Id agree.

Fact is, they dont.

Competing for top 10 in SCL 8, what do you think my haul is?

90% of the time its a few 3* covers and some HP.  Hardly ground breaking stuff.

So you're saying your arguing about losing trivial rewards?  How does that help your argument?  If anything that tells me, you're right you shouldn't be so upset about losing them then.  

Im arguing that the best I get isnt really good enough, and Id be set to lose out on even that.

You seem to be arguing that I should be grateful for the amazing SCL8 rewards is if they are somehow offering me a huge benefit.

My argument had nothing to do with the quality of the rewards, but the absurdity that a 3* > 4* transition places 10th in every event in the highest difficulty bracket.  You say you like competition, that's not competition, that's charity.  As Fight said the game has been fixed in your favor for a long time and they are trying to fix that.  You're punching way above your weight limit right now and you'll have to accept backing to the right level and winning or fighting with the big boys and no fairing as well, or that the game isn't for you.

Like I said to you, in theory I really dont disagree.

However, in practice I find it impossible to reconcile that theory, the progress/rewards Ive made, and the idea its somehow charitable to me.  It certainly doesnt seem rigged in my favour, thats hilarious.  Personally I find that 3-4* transition to be almost deliberately hard so as to stall play (though to be fair with added CP rewards it is improving).

Lets be clear - I said I compete for top 10 - I actually rarely place there.

Outside of that, my point is not even on the "fairness" of it.  I compete there because its the only place worth competing, if I dont compete there what possible progress will I make?


Again - for clarity - were the rewards appropriate at each level I would have no issue dropping down to play lower.  If 8 is for the top dogs and Im "supposed" to be in 6 thats absolutely fine - so long as playing at 6 enables me to develop and eventually push into 7...

..that simply is not the case right now.


And, again, for clarity, this isnt a "woe is me" sob story - this applies at all levels.  I think 5* players will also not be getting what they should rightfully earn.  And at no point is this with an eye to the game being easy, or fast.  Rather a game that offers clear and genuine progress if you put the effort in.

I think the argument is that the rewards are more or less appropriate for each level if you have not developed ahead of your roster (which is what fight and broll are saying has happened) in terms of the overall pacing of where the game should be to prevent players from reaching "the end" (aka have outpaced new development to the point where they're going to be bored and giving up the game out of boredom next year).

So if you're ahead of the curve of where D3 thinks you should be as a player with the amount of time you've put into the game, it's because they made it possible for you to develop ahead of that curve, and they're cutting off that pipeline now.

From that perspective, perhaps it is time to drop back and look at what you can do with the rewards (and less time in the game) than you are dealing with now.

In my own desire for an evening PVE bracket in the middle of the current slices for 3 & 4, I haven't talked about this... BUT. I believe I understand what D3 is trying to do here, and not sure if it's their own initiative or if they're getting more pushback about it from above. But basically, I believe those evening time slots are not open because they're avoiding "family hour" stuff - where teens playing might be getting cracked down on by parents who are going to pull rights to play the game, or it becomes a fight between adults who are pouring time into playing the game then rather than spending time with each other. Personally, it annoys me... because I can friggin well choose for myself tyvm. On the other hand, from a business perspective, I can understand their wanting to avoid the argument altogether.

If the game gains a reputation for taking too much time to play, it creates a smaller customer base, and the target audience here is probably a pretty large one (teens, college students, young adults, and older diehard comic nerds who are more Candy Crush than WoW), and I think they're trying to scale it back into a less time-intensive game on the PVE front. Simultaneously - that does also give people who have more time and want to invest it here to play both PVE and PVP rather than needing to pick and choose, etc.

westnyy2

One thing I didn't mention earlier about this change is the ability to use your roster more. Sure it isn't optimal for placement, but for those PVE events I am simply playing for progression it will allow me to use so many more characters that would have simply died quickly with my previous scaling. This has been one of my biggest complaints dating back to when I had to use Phoenix exclusively for over a year.

animaniactoo

In the interests of full disclosure... I work in product development for an entirely different industry (my primary target users are 3-6, secondary are 5-8), but with licensed characters as well (um, including some of these), so I have a big picture perspective on the business side when I look at development and changes, etc.

DrDevilDinosaur

Lukoil said:

DrDevilDinosaur said:

Did I play a different event? This was horrible - scaling was worse than normal.

Just switch it back, it wasn't perfect but every time Demi tries to tweak something they just manage to break it instead. Just please stop fiddling.

Yes you played different event. You played in SCL that is not appropirate for your roster. 
SCL8 - 4*->5* transition (easy for 5* rosters, ok for developed 4* rosters, hard for not developed 4* rosters)
SCL7 - 4* (easy for developed 4* roster, ok for not developed roster, hard for 3* only)
SCL6 - 3*->4* (easy for early 4* roster, ok for 3*)
SCL5 - 3* (easy for 3*)
SCL4-SCL1 - 1*-3* range

The only problem right now - rewards are not appropirate for difficulty. SCL-8 should give more CPs, SCL-7 should give more 4* covers as progression rewards. Right now SCL8 rewards are not good enough for such harsh increased diffculty

I've got 22 4* champs, including Nova & Blade who were both boosted for the event. That's pretty close to my standard experience under the old system (i.e. bringing two 4*champs). Is that insufficient for SCL 8? I thought I was in the 4*->5* transition. Can you tell me what SCL I should have been playing in?

Fightmastermpq

sh81 said:

animaniactoo said:

I think the argument is that the rewards are more or less appropriate for each level if you have not developed ahead of your roster (which is what fight and broll are saying has happened) in terms of the overall pacing of where the game should be to prevent players from reaching "the end" (aka have outpaced new development to the point where they're going to be bored and giving up the game out of boredom next year).

So if you're ahead of the curve of where D3 thinks you should be as a player with the amount of time you've put into the game, it's because they made it possible for you to develop ahead of that curve, and they're cutting off that pipeline now.

I see where you are going, but I disagree.

I just dont think the rewards are appropriate at all.  I really think they were absolutely spot on, but 2 years ago.

The meta has moved significantly, the mechanics have moved significantly, the rewards have not.

So I dont believe they are appropriate/on point/about right at all.

If the were I honestly I would have an issue at all.

I disagree.  I'm pretty competitive and finish T5 in almost every PvP in SCL8, and will occasionally hit T10 in SCL8 PvE as well.  The reward structure in SCL8 for both is such that it looks like I'm going to be able to get the newest 4*s to 370 before they are vaulted.  I've also been earning enough covers from Latest Legends to champ them before they move to the classic pool.  That's a very, very high end level of play that really should not be open to 3->4* transitioners as it is.

SCL8 PvE rewards really are charity for younger rosters that are able to compete there.

Nepenthe

@DrDevilDinosaur I also played CL8 with champed Blade & Nova and thought that was fine for clearing even the hard nodes. Yes, it was higher than my normal scaling but I'm fine with that. The reason is because with the new system my game will get better as I level those champs and start leveling 5*s, instead of getting worse.

If you didn't like playing at levels higher than what it was before, you can do CL7 and it'd be easier than it was under the old system. (Unfortunately with the big jump in difficulty from 7 to 8 there doesn't seem to be one right at my old scaling either, I think we're kind of in the middle on this new system.)  I can see myself doing that if the weekly boosted heroes aren't very good, or for Venom Bomb, or if I just want to spend less time in mpq for a few days.

DrDevilDinosaur

Nepenthe said:

If you didn't like playing at levels higher than what it was before, you can do CL7 and it'd be easier than it was under the old system. (Unfortunately with the big jump in difficulty from 7 to 8 there doesn't seem to be one right at my old scaling either, I think we're kind of in the middle on this new system.)  I can see myself doing that if the weekly boosted heroes aren't very good, or for Venom Bomb, or if I just want to spend less time in mpq for a few days.

Yeah, I guess I will have to play at CL7.

DarthDeVo

Nepenthe said:

DarthDeVo said:

westnyy2 said:

I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that.

On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far.

Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.

While, I agree that if you've developed a strong roster you shouldn't be punished for it, I highlighted the sentence above for a reason. 

I'm a (basically) Rank 86 player with 11 4* champs, and one fully covered and another decently covered 5* character (both completely unleveled). 

Much of my 4*progress has come from getting T10 or T5 in SCL 7 and 8; I even managed to get T1 in SCL 7 the last time Deadpool vs. MPQ ran. 

I know this is a release event, which is normally much more competitive. I know I'm in slice 4 of SCL 7, and utterly failed with my bracket snipe for this event, so I'm playing against some ultra competitive players. Right now, I'm at 28th overall.

In a non-release event, that would only net me some 3* covers. So if this scaling is implemented with no other changes, where should I go? SCL 6 has no 4* covers in progression, and precisely one 4* cover given to the top finisher. Also, isn't the minimum rank to enter that SCL in the upper teens/low 20s? Does that really seem appropriate for a Rank 86 player?

If they implement this style of scaling (don't get me wrong, I think they should) they HAVE to open SCL 9 and 10 with appropriate rewards to thin out 7 and 8.

@DarthDeVo  You failed your bracket snipe in a release event and are complaining that you're only ranked #28? Sounds like if you'd started a little later to snipe a new bracket you'd probably be top 10.  As to your question about dropping down to CL6: No, you should stay CL7, get the 4* cover and CP out of progression and not worry much if you're not hitting top 10 as often as before.

I did my 3-4* transition mostly before CL was even a thing, almost never getting a 4* from placement.  It was all about the progression rewards: the CP (and before that the LT) that was top progression.  Nobody should have to be counting on top 10 for transition, because that's only 1% of people in the event. If you can hit it that's some gravy, but it's not necessary to get top 10 to get into the 4* tier.

I totally agree that CL9 needs to come soon too. And the CL8 rewards should be buffed to make it more worth staying CL8 instead of dropping down.  But don't be surprised if neither of those changes happen until after this scaling change is made permanent. They seem to like doing just one change at a time.

Not complaining about being #28 in a release event per se, just trying to give my situation some context. I'm in what I've generally understood to be one of the most competitive brackets in one of the most competitive slices, so all things considered, 28 probably isn't that bad.

The issue is (aside from my poor snipe) I've been playing about as optimally as I can, and usually finishing somewhere around the 30th place mark in each sub. That's much worse than my typical performance. I just can't clear as fast as champ 5* rosters can. So while many are quite happy with better rewards for less effort—which is understandable—others are getting worse rewards for equal (or potentially more) effort.

As others have mentioned, it's hard to go from getting T5 or T10 and receiving those rewards to getting much less rewards, especially if you're putting in the same amount of effort. If I'm looking at getting less rewards for the same amount of effort, it will seriously make me question my time (and financial) commitment to the game. I'm not a whale or anything (pretty much get VIP every month and that's it), but I've felt so far that the amount I play has been worth 10 bucks a month because my time and financial commitments have been rewarded with decent progress into the 4* transition.

I wouldn't say I've been counting on placement rewards exclusively for transitioning, but they dang sure haven't hurt, either. Off the top of my head, I've been able to champ Gwenpool and Mordo purely thanks to good timing of specific placement rewards I've won. I'm sure there have been others, but like I said, those were the ones I know for a fact that immediately come to mind.

If only the scaling changes are implemented without opening more SCLs, it wouldn't be enough to totally set back my progress, but would definitely delay it by likely several months and dampening my enthusiasm to play. That's why I sincerely hope that if they make the scaling changes permanent, they seriously revamp the rewards in at least SCL 8 at the same time or shortly thereafter, followed by opening SCL 9 and 10 with significantly appropriate rewards. I think if those things happen, it will hopefully level the playing field enough to make most people feel like they can get rewards commensurate with the amount of time they play.

revskip

Beer40 said:

revskip said:

I don't mean locking out players who have 5*s.  I just mean locking the actual 5* characters out.  A person with twelve 5* champs could absolutely still drop down to whatever SCL they want.  They just wouldn't have the 5*s available to them in those lower SCLs.  Same thing with 4*s.  

In fact it would actually be great for people who get bored with using the same few characters over and over.  If you wanted to drop down to SCL 6 for example you would only be using 3*s (with the exception of the 4* essential).  Vets would retain their advantage because they would most likely still have higher level 3*s but the gulf would be much smaller.  

The top rosters probably are the tops at every level. So they're probably winning at SCL7 and 6, just like they are in the test, but it will "look" different. So by locking out certain * tiers we are just being limited in our choices to build a 3 person team among the * tiers.

Its just my opinion, but taking away who we can choose to play with is a terrible idea. That's exactly what a lot of 5* players are complaining about right now. And a big complaint of Vaulting. And a big complaint of the Heroic PVEs. Short answer: Most everyone complains about this in one way or another.

Sure the top rosters would retain an advantage, it would just be a much smaller advantage.  The difference between a max champed 3* and a newly champed 3* is orders of magnitude less pronounced than the difference between a champed 5* and a newly champed 3*.  Someone who grinded more optimally with a lesser roster would still have the outside shot of being a top player in their bracket as opposed to the test events where the clearing times are simply too disparate to be a true competition.  Right now the 5* roster in SCL 6 does their clears in 15-20 minutes while the 3* player takes at least an hour.  

It would definitely lock out certain combinations but only at that SCL.  If you wanted to use everyone you could always just go to the top SCL, no one would be forced into a lower SCL.  The lockouts would only affect lower SCLs where you probably wouldn't be seeing very well covered 4*s or 5*s anyway.  

As for people complaining about Heroics limiting choices the 5* crowd on the forums were generally in favor of them if I recall correctly.  They liked being able to use different characters every once and a while.  Their brutal 5* scaling was certainly a big part of why but I would think the variety of using their 4*s and 3*s would appeal to them as well.  

Zombionicdoom

I was much happier with this test as I dropped down to CL7. I reallly enjoyed playing and I don't have a problem with the easy nodes.