Keep this Scaling!
ZeroKarma
Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
I seriously enjoyed this PvE, and my ally mates were exceptionally positive as well. The key items:
Quality of life improvement - I typically cleared cl8 in 20-25 minutes to start each sub and the final grind was a little bit less. With standard scaling, I'm looking at double that at the very least
No Dark Avengers! - They're not hard, they're just annoying. Level 455 Moonstone/Rags/Venom just takes forever to kill and it isn't enjoyable 4-7 times in a row.
Level playing field - Not everyone will be happy with this. Last event I was beaten by two people, each with a lvl 270 Blade as their highest character. I have 10 champed 5* and I guarantee that my enemies were double theirs. This event my top competitors were at similar levels and rosters.
Team flexibility - This was a new release, so I generally used my best team all the time. But with the scaling in place I could definitely have taken more time and used boosted 3* and 4* without always relying on the same 5 characters.
There are still improvements that can be made. Here are a couple of thoughts.
Release cl9 and cl10 - I don't begrudge lower level rosters their rewards. Adding the two new cl's will provide an additional challenge for those people interested, as well as allow the player base to spread out more appropriately.
Stop the Grind - With faster clears, I don't want to now have to grind the 3 point node for 20 minutes to place well. You gave us that time back, don't take it away. With low scaling and a Thanos you can best optimal players by grinding the last node. Fix it by adding 10-20 base levels to the enemies after the 6th or 7th clear every match. This way, you can hit the node a few extra times, but eventually it isn't worth the effort.
I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense.
Quality of life improvement - I typically cleared cl8 in 20-25 minutes to start each sub and the final grind was a little bit less. With standard scaling, I'm looking at double that at the very least
No Dark Avengers! - They're not hard, they're just annoying. Level 455 Moonstone/Rags/Venom just takes forever to kill and it isn't enjoyable 4-7 times in a row.
Level playing field - Not everyone will be happy with this. Last event I was beaten by two people, each with a lvl 270 Blade as their highest character. I have 10 champed 5* and I guarantee that my enemies were double theirs. This event my top competitors were at similar levels and rosters.
Team flexibility - This was a new release, so I generally used my best team all the time. But with the scaling in place I could definitely have taken more time and used boosted 3* and 4* without always relying on the same 5 characters.
There are still improvements that can be made. Here are a couple of thoughts.
Release cl9 and cl10 - I don't begrudge lower level rosters their rewards. Adding the two new cl's will provide an additional challenge for those people interested, as well as allow the player base to spread out more appropriately.
Stop the Grind - With faster clears, I don't want to now have to grind the 3 point node for 20 minutes to place well. You gave us that time back, don't take it away. With low scaling and a Thanos you can best optimal players by grinding the last node. Fix it by adding 10-20 base levels to the enemies after the 6th or 7th clear every match. This way, you can hit the node a few extra times, but eventually it isn't worth the effort.
I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense.
14
Comments
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If I may add something:
Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.
As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.
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I also love the SCL-based scaling as well. I think it's great. I can't wait until it becomes a regular thing.1
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All nodes should hit 0 instead of having 1-3 points always. With the new scaling, having a three-point node guarantees that strategy and speed will always come second to brainlessly tapping a node over and over again. It's bad design.
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Loved the new scaling! It made PVE fun again!
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Agree with the OP that this scaling should stay. Also agree with this poster about how to fix the only negative I see in the new experience.Rhycar said:All nodes should hit 0 instead of having 1-3 points always. With the new scaling, having a three-point node guarantees that strategy and speed will always come second to brainlessly tapping a node over and over again. It's bad design.2 -
This is by far the best improvement to the game this year and I hope it's fully released soon. I also really hope that when it's release SCL9 & 10 (or at least 9) are released side by side or soon (less than 2 weeks) after.2
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Rhycar said:All nodes should hit 0 instead of having 1-3 points always. With the new scaling, having a three-point node guarantees that strategy and speed will always come second to brainlessly tapping a node over and over again. It's bad design.
Also agree with this. D3/Demi has basically stated they do not want players grinding endlessly on a low-point node, but that's exactly what's happening. A user in my current bracket is doing just this: grind hard node down 2 hours before sub end, hit hard node (it's just goons) repeatedly on end for 3 pts a pop. There is no strategy here--just someone who has an inordinate amount of free time on their hands.
Otherwise I really enjoyed these last two tests and I hope they are made permanent.3 -
+1 for me too, SCL scaling is a great quality of life improvement. The only change needed would be to open 9 and then later 10. As is rank 47-125 is far too broad a range for identical enemies2
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All these nodes do for me is make me want to upgrade to a faster device. My 2-year old Android is putting me at an unnecessary disadvantage.Starfury said:If I may add something:
Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.
As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.1 -
I'm thinking about filming the whole thing the next time I play those easy nodes so I can time the whole thing.Fightmastermpq said:
All these nodes do for me is make me want to upgrade to a faster device. My 2-year old Android is putting me at an unnecessary disadvantage.Starfury said:If I may add something:
Spare us the trivially easy nodes - this is like LR seeds every day, forever. Obviously, I don't mind the free resources. But those non-scaling nodes really don't add anything to the gameplay except "tap half a dozen times to join the match -> make one move -> wait for animations to end -> tap half a dozen times to collect rewards". Rinse and repeat, 18 times a day, 126 times a week.
As it is, they're literally nothing but a mind-numbing waste of everyone's time.
My feeling is it takes me 25-30s for each mission. That would amount to 5-6 minutes for the initial 3x4 clears. Quite a lot of time for 12, maybe 15 moves.
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This was such a great event. In fact, some of us that posted in here were all pushing each other to see who could clear the quickest. Was so much fun being able to use other teams and see what works the fastest. Take about making pve fun again. Plus truly giving time back to us. As my ally mate Zero stated, lower rosters won't like this, but the 5* teams or deep rosters will. Really hope this stays for good.1
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Nope. It certainly works well for people 4* as well. I struggle to think that a 4* transitioner would have problems unless they picked SCL8, SCL7 should be fine for a 4* transitioner I would think.sh81 said:
It works for 5* players and nobody else (and be honest, are the rewards appropriate for you?).ZeroKarma said:I seriously enjoyed this PvE, and my ally mates were exceptionally positive as well.
I really hope this doesn't go away. I'm already dreading Strange Sights and a Sandman essential node where the enemies are level 450. Like that makes any sense.
Edit: SCL8 is over-scalled right now because it's trying to be SCL8 and SCL9 since there is no SCL9. If I had to guess their long-term plan they will always have the highest open SCL overscalled because that's where the highest level players will be and I think that's appropriate.
The difference in rewards between 7 & 8, while more than they were at first, aren't so much that it's game breaking to drop down. I played SCL 7 and fully enjoyed it. The reward to effort was great because the rewards were less, but the effort was also far less, so it seemed quite balanced in that regard.
Part of the problem here is they are allowing people under leveled into SCLs giving them a false sense of where they should fall.5 -
At least one user in my current bracket has clearly done this - ground down a node early and been hitting it regularly for 3 points - enough to outweigh the early grind down, meaning they're playing that sucker so much, it's ridiculous. I can tell because I'm T20 in my bracket, and I've been clearing within the 1st hour and maximized grinds at the end every day - so literally, it's not possible for them to be that far ahead of me (more than 800 pts yesterday, after opening day 4 sub and clearing) without doing this.Sm0keyJ0e said:Rhycar said:All nodes should hit 0 instead of having 1-3 points always. With the new scaling, having a three-point node guarantees that strategy and speed will always come second to brainlessly tapping a node over and over again. It's bad design.
Also agree with this. D3/Demi has basically stated they do not want players grinding endlessly on a low-point node, but that's exactly what's happening. A user in my current bracket is doing just this: grind hard node down 2 hours before sub end, hit hard node (it's just goons) repeatedly on end for 3 pts a pop. There is no strategy here--just someone who has an inordinate amount of free time on their hands.
Otherwise I really enjoyed these last two tests and I hope they are made permanent.0 -
As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community?sh81 said:I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).
Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.
Under test conditions Ive been no where near.
As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.
SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).
Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling.
You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.
The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens.5 -
I disagree with getting rid of placement simply because getting a 3* cover (instead of a 4* for higher placement) is still better to me than getting nothing. None of the start times work for me either and I like to play here and there throughout the day, rather than a bunch twice per day.broll said:
As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community?sh81 said:I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).
Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.
Under test conditions Ive been no where near.
As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.
SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).
Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling.
You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.
The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens.
I'm assuming you believe if they get rid of placement, then they'll offset that by increasing the progression rewards? That would be ok...but I don't believe they'd do that and we'd just end up with less rewards.0 -
Yes I'm assuming they would augment some subset of placement rewards into progression to make up for the change. Knowing them they probably wouldn't be great and would probably be like the T100-T200 rewards at best. It would probably also make max progression more stretched out, which I'm fine with as long as it doesn't became like 9 clears or something ridiculous like that.Beer40 said:
I disagree with getting rid of placement simply because getting a 3* cover (instead of a 4* for higher placement) is still better to me than getting nothing. None of the start times work for me either and I like to play here and there throughout the day, rather than a bunch twice per day.broll said:
As a 4* transitioner do you think T10 is a reasonable goal in an SCL that's containing most of the 4* community?sh81 said:I did 8 last time, 7 this, result is the same. Im way down the pack despite playing as optimally as I can (as I always try to do).
Ordinarily Im knocking on the door of T10 (SCL8), sometimes being successful.
Under test conditions Ive been no where near.
As Ive said, Ive no problem dropping levels to suit my roster, providing the rewards at that level are appropriate for that roster.
SCL scaling without a reward overhaul simply doesnt work for the majority of the player base (and Ill maintain, even the 5*s wont be getting rewards appropriate to their rosters either, they will just have an easier time scooping them up).
Frankly, a reward overhaul in and of itself is long over due with or without scaling.
You shouldn't have been getting T10 in SCL8 before but the system favors those who have time on their hands (and specific time at that). That's what should be addressed. I can almost never hit T10 because my time doesn't work with any of the PvE time windows. So because of this broken time system you were getting rewards in the T10 when your roster isn't at a point where it should get T10 playing againist 4* and 5* players.
The obvious fix to both of these is get rid of placement in PvE. I'll continue to beat that dead horse till someone listens.
I'm assuming you believe if they get rid of placement, then they'll offset that by increasing the progression rewards? That would be ok...but I don't believe they'd do that and we'd just end up with less rewards.
Ultimately all of this is a moot point because people have been begging for this since I started 1.5 years ago and there's be no even slight hint that the devs will ever entertain it. They want people chasing placement rewards and burning health packs to do it.0 -
Did I play a different event? This was horrible - scaling was worse than normal.
Just switch it back, it wasn't perfect but every time Demi tries to tweak something they just manage to break it instead. Just please stop fiddling.2 -
I think the thing many of us are finally grateful for is NOT being punished for developing our rosters. As a 5* player, I had mostly written off PvE as an event in which I could no longer be competitive. Fixed scaling has changed that, and I no longer rage at the fact that my decision to develop my roster actually resulted in reducing my ability to perform well. I played CL8 for this Thick as Thieves PvP and it was refreshing to be competing with similar rosters for rewards finally.
I also agree strongly that CL9 and CL10 are sorely needed to free up the CL7 ad CL8 rewards for 4* transitioning rosters. Just because I have some 5* characters doesn't mean I am no longer interested in gaining the 4* rewards, but at the same time, if the 3* and 4* rosters don't have a reliable mechanism to also gain them, there IS no transition other than RNG.4 -
Yes you played different event. You played in SCL that is not appropirate for your roster.DrDevilDinosaur said:Did I play a different event? This was horrible - scaling was worse than normal.
Just switch it back, it wasn't perfect but every time Demi tries to tweak something they just manage to break it instead. Just please stop fiddling.
SCL8 - 4*->5* transition (easy for 5* rosters, ok for developed 4* rosters, hard for not developed 4* rosters)
SCL7 - 4* (easy for developed 4* roster, ok for not developed roster, hard for 3* only)
SCL6 - 3*->4* (easy for early 4* roster, ok for 3*)
SCL5 - 3* (easy for 3*)
SCL4-SCL1 - 1*-3* range
The only problem right now - rewards are not appropirate for difficulty. SCL-8 should give more CPs, SCL-7 should give more 4* covers as progression rewards. Right now SCL8 rewards are not good enough for such harsh increased diffculty4 -
I don't understand what is broken. You are no longer punished for having a strong roster. If your transitioning 4 star roster can't hang with a 5 star roster then drop a clearance level. As a 5 star player, I'm still being outplayed by bigger 5 star rosters and I'm okay with that.
On a side note, how easy was that Hood/Mags node in the last sub? Normally the 110k plus hit points they have frustrate me to no end. In this trial it was so much easier.This test may not be the perfect solution, but certainly has been the most fair thus far.
Lastly, while I have a 5 star roster, I only used 1 this last sub. Boosted 4's are no joke. It's taught me to learn the characters better.
6
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