TheOncomingStorm wrote: It is easier than that. Over two weeks, non-casual players should be able to get at least 300HP from PVE progressives and placement, 150 HP from PVE t250 Alliance, probably at last 50HP from daily drops, and 300 HP (just from the bottom two HP progressives in PVP) and 300 HP from PVP t250 Aliance in PVP. That's not counting hitting higher HP progressives in PVP, individual placement in PVP, or sub rewards in PVE. That's 1100 HP. Even if you miss out on one or two, it's actually kind of hard not to get 1000 HP every two weeks as a minimum. Many players can make more than that and that's before taking into account any changes that they make to assist with roster slots.
TheOncomingStorm wrote: SnowcaTT wrote: babinro wrote: I get that there will be pushback on the choice to cap it at 1000 rather than say 500 hp but the fact of the matter is that 1000 hp is completely achievable and reasonable by a top 50 pvp/pve player. Shouldn't more than the top 5%/10% (depends on event) be able to afford to keep the characters they have earned? It is easier than that. Over two weeks, non-casual players should be able to get at least 300HP from PVE progressives and placement, 150 HP from PVE t250 Alliance, probably at last 50HP from daily drops, and 300 HP (just from the bottom two HP progressives in PVP) and 300 HP from PVP t250 Aliance in PVP. That's not counting hitting higher HP progressives in PVP, individual placement in PVP, or sub rewards in PVE. That's 1100 HP. Even if you miss out on one or two, it's actually kind of hard not to get 1000 HP every two weeks as a minimum. Many players can make more than that and that's before taking into account any changes that they make to assist with roster slots.
SnowcaTT wrote: babinro wrote: I get that there will be pushback on the choice to cap it at 1000 rather than say 500 hp but the fact of the matter is that 1000 hp is completely achievable and reasonable by a top 50 pvp/pve player. Shouldn't more than the top 5%/10% (depends on event) be able to afford to keep the characters they have earned?
babinro wrote: I get that there will be pushback on the choice to cap it at 1000 rather than say 500 hp but the fact of the matter is that 1000 hp is completely achievable and reasonable by a top 50 pvp/pve player.
arktos1971 wrote: Has it been discussed if the ones who paid more than 1000HP per roster will be refunded the difference ? That would only be fair.
daibar wrote: Capping slots at 1K is going to help those with 80 or more slots
daibar wrote: Why are people begrudging them for trying to profit from their efforts? I think it's funny that it's labelled a 'tax', as if roster slots are some god given right. Even acknowledging the fact of artificial scarcity, the way the premium currency is doled out for consistent players makes it pretty easy to remain an unpaying player once you get past the first few triple roster slots, given a certain tier of play.
Dauthi wrote: Pylgrim wrote: Great stuff overall. 1k for roster slots is pricey but I know I am getting that much HP just by playing the game between character releases, with enough left for shields and stuff. More importantly, this is just the first piece of the puzzle, they hinted that there will be ways of earning roster slots. ! I see a lot of posts like this, but don't you feel that winning HP should be a prize, not a wage to keep playing? If you aren't spending the HP on new covers, then it isn't really a prize. It's more like a fee to play the game paid for by playing the game. I think this is a good example of D3 being too stingy with handing out prizes, they need to loosen up if they want to get players to stick around.
Pylgrim wrote: Great stuff overall. 1k for roster slots is pricey but I know I am getting that much HP just by playing the game between character releases, with enough left for shields and stuff. More importantly, this is just the first piece of the puzzle, they hinted that there will be ways of earning roster slots. !
orbitalint wrote: daibar wrote: Why are people begrudging them for trying to profit from their efforts? I think it's funny that it's labelled a 'tax', as if roster slots are some god given right. Even acknowledging the fact of artificial scarcity, the way the premium currency is doled out for consistent players makes it pretty easy to remain an unpaying player once you get past the first few triple roster slots, given a certain tier of play. So, for me, I don't have an issue with them trying to make a profit. Honestly, I'm just not a fan that they base their model almost exclusively on Fear of Missing Out-like aspects of psychology. Don't want to lose your ground in PVP? Please pay some currency to shield. Want to compete in PVE on a regular basis? Pay the roster HP so you have access to the exclusive nodes that separate top finishes from everyone else. Everyone else is doing it, so make sure you aren't left out on these "great" rewards! I just wished they prioritized giving the consumer reasons to invest in their content (covers, skins, whatever) rather than develop mechanisms that give people little choice in how they spend their HP (roster slots). Instead of being able to choose how I'd like make my favorite marvel character be a little more awesome with more covers, I have to make sure I am able to pay the tax to continue to play at a high level in events. It would be similar to if you went to Disney World, paid for your admission ticket and then was charged to ride any rides. You paid us upfront so you have the ability to pay more for some actual enjoyment.
GrimSkald wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: My issue with the cap is that it doesn't kick in until you have nearly every character in the game, including those at the 2* and 1* level. It's a relief for the collector but not for those who are only trying to keep the characters they might genuinely need to do well (which is every 3* and 4*, some – but not all – 2*s, and one 1*). I mean, I have every 4* except Carnage; every 3* period; every 2* except Bagman, Ms. Marvel and Bullseye; and a Juggernaut -- which is pretty damn comprehensive -- and my next roster spot will cost “only” 800 HP, meaning I still get no relief from the 1K cap. That's why I think it's too high - I'm well below the 1k cost myself. Still, you were going to hit it sooner or later, if you keep playing the game.
CrookedKnight wrote: My issue with the cap is that it doesn't kick in until you have nearly every character in the game, including those at the 2* and 1* level. It's a relief for the collector but not for those who are only trying to keep the characters they might genuinely need to do well (which is every 3* and 4*, some – but not all – 2*s, and one 1*). I mean, I have every 4* except Carnage; every 3* period; every 2* except Bagman, Ms. Marvel and Bullseye; and a Juggernaut -- which is pretty damn comprehensive -- and my next roster spot will cost “only” 800 HP, meaning I still get no relief from the 1K cap.
Lerysh wrote: udonomefoo wrote: My favorite part of the video was hearing them both refer to purple as purple. Now everyone can stop calling it pink! (I know you won't) I would love to call it purple, and I know it's supposed to be purple, but it's not purple.Purple: Pink:
udonomefoo wrote: My favorite part of the video was hearing them both refer to purple as purple. Now everyone can stop calling it pink! (I know you won't)
daibar wrote: orbitalint wrote: daibar wrote: Why are people begrudging them for trying to profit from their efforts? I think it's funny that it's labelled a 'tax', as if roster slots are some god given right. Even acknowledging the fact of artificial scarcity, the way the premium currency is doled out for consistent players makes it pretty easy to remain an unpaying player once you get past the first few triple roster slots, given a certain tier of play. So, for me, I don't have an issue with them trying to make a profit. Honestly, I'm just not a fan that they base their model almost exclusively on Fear of Missing Out-like aspects of psychology. Don't want to lose your ground in PVP? Please pay some currency to shield. Want to compete in PVE on a regular basis? Pay the roster HP so you have access to the exclusive nodes that separate top finishes from everyone else. Everyone else is doing it, so make sure you aren't left out on these "great" rewards! I just wished they prioritized giving the consumer reasons to invest in their content (covers, skins, whatever) rather than develop mechanisms that give people little choice in how they spend their HP (roster slots). Instead of being able to choose how I'd like make my favorite marvel character be a little more awesome with more covers, I have to make sure I am able to pay the tax to continue to play at a high level in events. It would be similar to if you went to Disney World, paid for your admission ticket and then was charged to ride any rides. You paid us upfront so you have the ability to pay more for some actual enjoyment. I mostly agree, but find that they use psychological loss techniques more (or maybe that's what gets to me). Eg, for some reason we feel pain at destroying a 2-cover Vision even though he sucks, so we end up buying a roster slot, whereas the right thing to do would be drop his tinykitty once he's no longer essential. T150 is still easily doable without 1 essential (T50 for Carnage, maybe not.) Also, if they give people little choice in how they spend their HP, then why are people shielding in PVP? Why do people save up HP for a 5th BP RotP cover? A lot of these players are F2P players too. Perhaps you're speaking from a pre 30-roster slot roster, in which case it's understandable. I do agree that it would be nice to have more things to spend HP on, because tokens really aren't worth it. If you go to Disney World, you still have to wait in line for rides, but you can pay to skip to the front. You're not going to be able to go on every ride in a day unless you pay, but you can still go on a decent number of them. And don't get me started on the cost of a beer there.
Lerysh wrote: GrimSkald wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: My issue with the cap is that it doesn't kick in until you have nearly every character in the game, including those at the 2* and 1* level. It's a relief for the collector but not for those who are only trying to keep the characters they might genuinely need to do well (which is every 3* and 4*, some – but not all – 2*s, and one 1*). I mean, I have every 4* except Carnage; every 3* period; every 2* except Bagman, Ms. Marvel and Bullseye; and a Juggernaut -- which is pretty damn comprehensive -- and my next roster spot will cost “only” 800 HP, meaning I still get no relief from the 1K cap. That's why I think it's too high - I'm well below the 1k cost myself. Still, you were going to hit it sooner or later, if you keep playing the game. This is only true today, 6 months from now the cap will kick in while you still have 15 characters to go (assuming you want 1 of everyone, and no duplicates). A year from now the cap will kick in when you have 30 characters still to go. 1,000 isn't a right now problem solve number, it's a forward thinking future problem solve number. Which I am totally fine with. Clearly they want to keep releasing characters forever so a ceiling had to be implemented. A vast majority are not yet at 1,000 per roster slot, meaning it's a number they can cap at which while not immediately effective for everyone will eventually be effective anyone that keeps playing to the point of 80+ roster slots. Thinking of the future is totally fine with me. arktos1971 wrote: Has it been discussed if the ones who paid more than 1000HP per roster will be refunded the difference ? That would only be fair. Also I feel the reason the picked 1,000 and not 500 is so they wouldn't have to deal with an outcry for refunds. We basically did this to ourselves.
GrimSkald wrote: Lerysh wrote: GrimSkald wrote: CrookedKnight wrote: My issue with the cap is that it doesn't kick in until you have nearly every character in the game, including those at the 2* and 1* level. It's a relief for the collector but not for those who are only trying to keep the characters they might genuinely need to do well (which is every 3* and 4*, some – but not all – 2*s, and one 1*). I mean, I have every 4* except Carnage; every 3* period; every 2* except Bagman, Ms. Marvel and Bullseye; and a Juggernaut -- which is pretty damn comprehensive -- and my next roster spot will cost “only” 800 HP, meaning I still get no relief from the 1K cap. That's why I think it's too high - I'm well below the 1k cost myself. Still, you were going to hit it sooner or later, if you keep playing the game. This is only true today, 6 months from now the cap will kick in while you still have 15 characters to go (assuming you want 1 of everyone, and no duplicates). A year from now the cap will kick in when you have 30 characters still to go. 1,000 isn't a right now problem solve number, it's a forward thinking future problem solve number. Which I am totally fine with. Clearly they want to keep releasing characters forever so a ceiling had to be implemented. A vast majority are not yet at 1,000 per roster slot, meaning it's a number they can cap at which while not immediately effective for everyone will eventually be effective anyone that keeps playing to the point of 80+ roster slots. Thinking of the future is totally fine with me. arktos1971 wrote: Has it been discussed if the ones who paid more than 1000HP per roster will be refunded the difference ? That would only be fair. Also I feel the reason the picked 1,000 and not 500 is so they wouldn't have to deal with an outcry for refunds. We basically did this to ourselves. It's possible that was their reasoning - ironically the outcry would have been worse if it was, say, 500, and they would not consider a refund. I would have been entirely fine with no refund or a refund for the last 30 days myself, but that's just me. I do think that 1000 is, in an abstract sense, too high (it's a bit under half of a $20 purchase, for example,) but I'm glad they did something. I do keep every 3* (and have kept a number of my 2*s, and 3 1*s,) so I'm just as glad I don't have to throw anything away.
Linkster79 wrote: isn't the whole concept of PvE supposed to be completely different to PvP?
orbitalint wrote: TheOncomingStorm wrote: It is easier than that. Over two weeks, non-casual players should be able to get at least 300HP from PVE progressives and placement, 150 HP from PVE t250 Alliance, probably at last 50HP from daily drops, and 300 HP (just from the bottom two HP progressives in PVP) and 300 HP from PVP t250 Aliance in PVP. That's not counting hitting higher HP progressives in PVP, individual placement in PVP, or sub rewards in PVE. That's 1100 HP. Even if you miss out on one or two, it's actually kind of hard not to get 1000 HP every two weeks as a minimum. Many players can make more than that and that's before taking into account any changes that they make to assist with roster slots. Others have mentioned it here, I've definitely mentioned it in the past (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24664&hilit=+tax#p306509) but I think there is something inherently wrong with a system that makes you pay for the privilege of having content instead of actually paying for said content, regardless of it being "reasonably" possible over any given time span. It's a tax on having characters. They are just now capping the tax. Plain and simple. They give out "free" HP over the course of 2 weeks for pretty consistent play, only to have it recouped in the tax on the new character if you want to play competitively. That tells me that any covers you'd prefer to spend it on, you need to pay for it and those are oddly expensive too. Only the hardcore competitors and whales have a reason to drop a dime on this game. It's their business model but my guess is that semi-casual play doesn't give you many reasons to spend $5 a month and make it feel like it is worth it. That's 1/2 a cover or maybe 3/4 of a roster slot for me at the moment. No thanks.
daibar wrote: daibar wrote: Capping slots at 1K is going to help those with 80 or more slots 81st slot was the first to cost more than 1k. http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Roster_Slots I find the completionist/hoarder mentality funny, but slightly less so since I have it as well. This game is already pretty decent as a f2p game. Why are people begrudging them for trying to profit from their efforts? I think it's funny that it's labelled a 'tax', as if roster slots are some god given right. Even acknowledging the fact of artificial scarcity, the way the premium currency is doled out for consistent players makes it pretty easy to remain an unpaying player once you get past the first few triple roster slots, given a certain tier of play. I might be reading into it the wrong way, but it seemed like they were aware that simulator score is part of season score. However, I think everyone outside of say T30 doesn't really care, and T120 only cares that they remain in T100, not so much where they land. For many mid-tier players the draw seems to be the last 3 personal progression rewards.