fmftint wrote: Ben Grimm wrote: How to fix PVP: Eliminate losing points entirely. Even offensively. If you win offensively, you gain points, if you lose, you get zero. Defense doesn't really matter. Yes, scores would go up, and you'd lose shield HP. But. You could recalibrate progression awards to reflect the new scoring. Lower levels would probably be unaffected; higher levels would go roughly where they were. And you'd also gain a lot of income because people would have a much stronger incentive to broaden their roster so they can fight longer. Right now, PVP is about keeping three people healthy. With these changes, people could use their entire rosters in PVP, and would gain a direct PVP benefit from doing so. Also, PVP might actually become, shockingly, fun. Suddenly, there would be a huge variety of opponents. Every team wouldn't be the same featured plus two. People would be able to try new strategies without worrying about how it would affect them on defense. People could try goofy combinations just because they think they'd be fun to play. And if people are enjoying it, they'd be more likely to by health packs, or tokens, or go after that character they weren't going to bother with because they weren't good in PVP. You'd gain a lot more long-term than you'd lose short-term. PVP is fixable, and it wouldn't necessarily be that difficult to fix. Please, try at least running an event or two like this - maybe in the next off-season - before you rule it out entirely. that would just turn PVP into an endless 2.5 day grindfest. The fundamental problem in PVP is, you can only win one fight at a time, but theres no limit to how many you can lose
Ben Grimm wrote: How to fix PVP: Eliminate losing points entirely. Even offensively. If you win offensively, you gain points, if you lose, you get zero. Defense doesn't really matter. Yes, scores would go up, and you'd lose shield HP. But. You could recalibrate progression awards to reflect the new scoring. Lower levels would probably be unaffected; higher levels would go roughly where they were. And you'd also gain a lot of income because people would have a much stronger incentive to broaden their roster so they can fight longer. Right now, PVP is about keeping three people healthy. With these changes, people could use their entire rosters in PVP, and would gain a direct PVP benefit from doing so. Also, PVP might actually become, shockingly, fun. Suddenly, there would be a huge variety of opponents. Every team wouldn't be the same featured plus two. People would be able to try new strategies without worrying about how it would affect them on defense. People could try goofy combinations just because they think they'd be fun to play. And if people are enjoying it, they'd be more likely to by health packs, or tokens, or go after that character they weren't going to bother with because they weren't good in PVP. You'd gain a lot more long-term than you'd lose short-term. PVP is fixable, and it wouldn't necessarily be that difficult to fix. Please, try at least running an event or two like this - maybe in the next off-season - before you rule it out entirely.
Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er. Oh my God, you're right, how could I've been so insensitive. The devastating effects this change will have in these absolutely essential off-season events cannot be understated. My heart goes to you in these times of ungodly hardship, brother.
ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er.
Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds.
ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far?
simonsez wrote: NighteyesGrisu wrote: Why am I not surprised that some people instantly whine about the change Same reason I'm not surprised there are always shills and white knights who don't know a turd from a bonbon Or the ones who, when given a bonbon will disintegrate it desperately searching for the traces of turd they are positive there will be there based on prejudice alone and then are not capable to understand why other players talk about getting a bonbon. NighteyesGrisu wrote: it's a rather substantial net gain since in the earlier stages wins amount for quite a bit more than losses No one gives a flying tinykitty about the earlier stages of PvP. If you still need it explained to you, this is about the potential for disasters via bad hops and sniping.
simonsez wrote: NighteyesGrisu wrote: Why am I not surprised that some people instantly whine about the change Same reason I'm not surprised there are always shills and white knights who don't know a turd from a bonbon
NighteyesGrisu wrote: Why am I not surprised that some people instantly whine about the change
NighteyesGrisu wrote: it's a rather substantial net gain since in the earlier stages wins amount for quite a bit more than losses No one gives a flying tinykitty about the earlier stages of PvP. If you still need it explained to you, this is about the potential for disasters via bad hops and sniping.
NighteyesGrisu wrote: it's a rather substantial net gain since in the earlier stages wins amount for quite a bit more than losses
ArkPrime wrote: Not insensitive, just ignorant and incapable of admitting you're wrong
NighteyesGrisu wrote: how many 50p matches do you get at the top end?
Demiurge_Will wrote: Hi, all, Will from Demiurge here to talk about some changes we’re making to scoring in Versus events. There was a loophole in the scoring system that allowed players to coordinate to gain lots of points very quickly, by intentionally losing to one another. We’ve closed that loophole by reducing the amount of points gained from a defensive win to ⅓ of what it was previously. The defender currently wins in a Versus match only about 10% of the time, so this has a small impact on players who weren’t intentionally losing to one another. We’re taking that into account with the next change: Changes we made to Versus matchmaking in Season XIII increased average Versus fight times by about 30%. We want to reduce the time that it takes to climb the leaderboards and add some additional points into the system to make up for those lost from the change to how defensive wins are scored. We’re increasing the points value of each Versus mission by 50%. (That affects both the number of points from a win and from a loss. Before the change, if Ada and Bea both have 500 points and Ada attacks Bea and wins, Ada would gain 25 points and Bea would lose 13. After the change, Ada would gain 38 points and Bea would lose 19.) The change to the amount of points gained from a defensive win has already been made, and the increase to the points value of a Versus mission will take effect with the start of Season XV. I’m excited to make Versus faster and fairer, and I’m looking forward to getting these changes into your hands!
shurak wrote: So let me get it straight. You're reducing points for defensive wins and increasing for defensive losses? Guys, sometimes what you do just blows my mind. I would support the first part but the second part making it a disaster. How about just eliminating all defensive points?
ArkPrime wrote: It's also funny that this "loophole" has been used and talked about publicly for months and they decided it was an emergency now. We call it "boosting" and it's been around longer than I've played the game.
djsquillz wrote: ArkPrime wrote: It's also funny that this "loophole" has been used and talked about publicly for months and they decided it was an emergency now. We call it "boosting" and it's been around longer than I've played the game. I'd say that over the past season and a half, i noticed more and more and more and more people doing it. I honestly think what happened is that too many crews started using this method too frequently for D3 to ignore it any longer. marc
PeterGibbons316 wrote: The most broken part of this game is what happens to you on defense, and they just made that worse. This will probably make hitting progressions easier, but finishing high harder. Rewarding those willing to spend more money on shields. So it's another money grab, at this point that shouldn't surprise anyone.
djsquillz wrote: I'd say that over the past season and a half, i noticed more and more and more and more people doing it. I honestly think what happened is that too many crews started using this method too frequently for D3 to ignore it any longer.
dkffiv wrote: Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er. Oh my God, you're right, how could I've been so insensitive. The devastating effects this change will have in these absolutely essential off-season events cannot be understated. My heart goes to you in these times of ungodly hardship, brother. If you can only roll out 50% of a solution, maybe you should wait a week to roll out 100%?
Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er. Oh my God, you're right, how could I've been so insensitive. The devastating effects this change will have in these absolutely essential off-season events cannot be understated. My heart goes to you in these times of ungodly hardship, brother.
ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er.
Pylgrim wrote: Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds.
PeterGibbons316 wrote: This will probably make hitting progressions easier, but finishing high harder.
ArkPrime wrote: You forgot the main point of the entire thing. You know when people lose to your team and you get +12 points? That's now 4 points. Remember those amazingly rare occurrences where someone who was a little over your level lost to you and you got bumped for 24 points? That's now 8 points. For all effective purposes this "update" removes all relevance of defensive wins. Let me make this perfectly clear for those that don't know how to feel about this.THIS CHANGE REMOVES DEFENSIVE WINS FROM THE GAME IN ANY WAY THAT MATTERS.