Wonko33 wrote: simonsez wrote: Wonko33 wrote: Focus your anger on the cheaters, that's why we can never have nice things "Rational players" aren't cheaters. Take a game theory course some time. Take an Ethics one
simonsez wrote: Wonko33 wrote: Focus your anger on the cheaters, that's why we can never have nice things "Rational players" aren't cheaters. Take a game theory course some time.
Wonko33 wrote: Focus your anger on the cheaters, that's why we can never have nice things
vudu3 wrote: Ben Grimm wrote: How to fix PVP: Eliminate losing points entirely. Even offensively. If you win offensively, you gain points, if you lose, you get zero. Defense doesn't really matter. 2.5 day grindfest aside, this would create a new loophole to abuse. All one has to do is save a seed team and then climb as high as possible. Then beat the seed team with a level 15 Bagman, etc. and it's free points for everyone else.
Ben Grimm wrote: How to fix PVP: Eliminate losing points entirely. Even offensively. If you win offensively, you gain points, if you lose, you get zero. Defense doesn't really matter.
ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. And exploit would be something like discovering that if you closed the app right after getting in to a fight made you win automatically or that if you clicked very fast in several pve nodes it increased the amount of points available. This is as much an exploit as memorizing decklists in Magic, for instance. The game allows you to do something that gets you to your objective faster than people doing some other thing.
Wonko33 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. And exploit would be something like discovering that if you closed the app right after getting in to a fight made you win automatically or that if you clicked very fast in several pve nodes it increased the amount of points available. This is as much an exploit as memorizing decklists in Magic, for instance. The game allows you to do something that gets you to your objective faster than people doing some other thing. Well good news for your alliance then, it still works! Just lose more games on purpose and you guys can still get your 4*
Pylgrim wrote: I think this is the reason why I and many others are happy with this change, as we play "honestly" climbing little by little, shielding, planning ahead and overall making sure that we are still having fun. Sometimes that gets us 1k, sometimes 800, sometimes somewhat less. And that's fine, it's just a game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but either way, with whatever rewards you get, you advance a little. People who game the system either because they feel the need to place atop of everybody else every time, or because they actually hate playing the game, but want the rewards and the status with as little of it as possible, will very understandably hate this change. (Not saying that everybody that hates this change falls in that category, though.)
daibar wrote: platypusavenger wrote: While we're discussing match-making tweaks, how about another item that has been often thrown out as a solution to the out-of-game coordination...why do we need to see the name or roster of the person we are attacking before we commit? Make it blind, and a lot of the top-top-tier 'problem cases' go away. It's more of a psychological thing. With names, it feels more personal and less of a slog. If you fight 6 nameless XThor teams in a row, it starts to feel monotonous. However, if I'm hitting say 'platypusavenger', then it adds an additional emotional level to the game, especially if that player has hit me earlier in the round.
platypusavenger wrote: While we're discussing match-making tweaks, how about another item that has been often thrown out as a solution to the out-of-game coordination...why do we need to see the name or roster of the person we are attacking before we commit? Make it blind, and a lot of the top-top-tier 'problem cases' go away.
ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit.
PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Not to mention - why continue to play a game where you get more points by.......not playing the game????
ArkPrime wrote: Not to mention - why continue to play a game where you get more points by.......not playing the game????
PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. I'm not familiar with the exploit and how it works (please educate me on the details if I am wrong in my assumptions here), but if the intention of PvP is to acquire points by winning battles against opponents, and you have found a "loophole" that lets you acquire more point by intentionally losing battles instead, then you are exploiting a game mechanic the defeats the spirit of the game. It may not be "unethical", but if you are doing this to gain an advantage over players that aren't using this exploit then you are kind of a piece of tinykitty.
Der_Lex wrote: A faster climb is useless if it'll mean it'll be harder to hit 1k because you'll lose even more points when you're hit at 800+ points by some guy way below you. Reaching the top isn't hard, but staying there is. I understand that you'd want to put a stop to coordinated retreat climbing, but wouldn't a more elegant solution have been that after you attack a certain player, there'd be a cooldown period before you could attack that player again? That would please both sides of the equation:it would limit the possibility of retreat climbing, but it would also mean you can't get sniped by the same guy three times in a row while you're trying to get to 1k.
mohio wrote: I think a lot of people aren't really understanding why this change is being made (well, there's 2 changes so I'll just talk on the defensive wins one). I seriously doubt the devs care that people are "boosting" teammates from 900 to 1k with little effort, and at those scores very few points were even being added overall. The "loophole" or whatever you guys want to call it was the coordinated retreat climb that could start 20 minutes into an event with players at 200 points (okay maybe later and higher points but I never tried this so who knows). Two people at the top of the leaderboard could find each other after maybe 2 skips and each retreat nets a lot of points into the system at low point levels and still works up to ~900. So all you need is a large expendable roster and a climbing partner and you could go from 500-900 without actually playing any matches. This was all because we complained about losing so many points with matches taking longer so they lessened point losses from "losing" injecting more points into the system per fight. Anyway, can we get rid of the inane personal attacks please? take it to PMs if you want to continue. Also to those complaining about "whiners", these guys know a ton about how this game works and if you look back have probably been right more often than not when predicting what effects changes will have, so at least hear them out.
PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. I'm not familiar with the exploit and how it works (please educate me on the details if I am wrong in my assumptions here), but if the intention of PvP is to acquire points by winning battles against opponents, and you have found a "loophole" that lets you acquire more point by intentionally losing battles instead, then you are exploiting a game mechanic the defeats the spirit of the game. It may not be "unethical", but if you are doing this to gain an advantage over players that aren't using this exploit then you are kind of a piece of tinykitty. Not to mention - why continue to play a game where you get more points by.......not playing the game????
ArkPrime wrote: PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. I'm not familiar with the exploit and how it works (please educate me on the details if I am wrong in my assumptions here), but if the intention of PvP is to acquire points by winning battles against opponents, and you have found a "loophole" that lets you acquire more point by intentionally losing battles instead, then you are exploiting a game mechanic the defeats the spirit of the game. It may not be "unethical", but if you are doing this to gain an advantage over players that aren't using this exploit then you are kind of a piece of tinykitty. For someone who admits he doesn't understand what he's talking about, calling people out like in that last sentence is a pretty daring shot in the dark, wouldn't you say? Nobody is topping pvp brackets using this. People were using it to inject more points into a bracket early when everyone is worth 10-15 points and boosting people into the 1k progression reward. The tactic discussed requires people to spend a lot of time unshielded, and if anyone attempted it over 1k they would be sniped into oblivon. Nobody was being harmed by this, unless you consider "not getting progression as easily as some people" being harmed. In which case everyone who has a nice roster is harming everyone that doesn't.
Nellobee wrote: I still believe the game would be better if they just removed shielding entirely. Then it would be more about playing the actual game and less about a bizarre meta.
PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: PeterGibbons316 wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Using normal in game mechanisms to play event is not an exploit. I'm not familiar with the exploit and how it works (please educate me on the details if I am wrong in my assumptions here), but if the intention of PvP is to acquire points by winning battles against opponents, and you have found a "loophole" that lets you acquire more point by intentionally losing battles instead, then you are exploiting a game mechanic the defeats the spirit of the game. It may not be "unethical", but if you are doing this to gain an advantage over players that aren't using this exploit then you are kind of a piece of tinykitty. For someone who admits he doesn't understand what he's talking about, calling people out like in that last sentence is a pretty daring shot in the dark, wouldn't you say? Nobody is topping pvp brackets using this. People were using it to inject more points into a bracket early when everyone is worth 10-15 points and boosting people into the 1k progression reward. The tactic discussed requires people to spend a lot of time unshielded, and if anyone attempted it over 1k they would be sniped into oblivon. Nobody was being harmed by this, unless you consider "not getting progression as easily as some people" being harmed. In which case everyone who has a nice roster is harming everyone that doesn't. So how exactly did it work? You find a buddy and both continually lose to each other boosting your scores to 1k? Could you do this with a 2* roster? Once you got to 1k couldn't you then shield to stay there and take a top (or near it) finish beating out players with developed rosters grinding for days trying to get the same score? This sounds super shady, and would definitely be a mechanic/exploit/loophole that breaks competitive play. It's certainly something devs would want to get rid of.....what am I missing?
ArkPrime wrote: You're missing a lot of things, none of which I feel like explaining. Maybe it's your tone, maybe it's how you're willing to call people dishonest while not knowing what you're talking about.